Trial Discussion Thread #25 - 14.04.14, Day 22

[aa9511]

Now onto photo 68 of jeans on top of duvet (or not, as Roux disputed they were Friday)

Zooming in on blood splatter corner of duvet, down towards the denim, and next to the carpet beside the jeans. And showing a blood hair smear near the watch.

Nel says that was OP carrying Reeva. OP says No.

bbm

Whoa. Carrying Reeva when??

 

[TorisMom003]

At this point I fail to see how Roux is going to be able to rehabilitate OP's cross exam. The lies have been pointed out time and time again. It's a shame that Roux has to defend OP when OP has thrown his defense team under the bus numerous times now.

MOO

 

[aa9511]

Right?.....now it has me wondering if OP was be a little too assertive that night and took her jeans off...which escalated to the end.

Yes the jeans inside out definately makes me think Oscar is the one who took them off of her. However that happened, IDK. Perhaps Reeva had put her jeans on to leave, he got her and took them off of her in his rage. But the only thing with that is how would he do that on his stumps?

 

[TorisMom003]

[/B]

bbm

Whoa. Carrying Reeva when??

After he "broke down the toilet room door, pulled Reeva out of the toilet room to the bathroom, phoned Stander, phoned Netcare, accidentally phone security, answered a call back from security, ran downstairs to open the front door, ran back upstairs, picked Reeva up from the bathroom floor, CARRIED her downstairs to put her in the car to take her to hospital".

 

[rachael123]

Gosh I never thought of that.It all seems to be tying together.How did he think he would get away with his story.Image killing someone and then quick thinking a whole story.

You're not wrong, you've got that absolutely spot on!

.. add to that, now, that we have now been shown the trail of blood on the carpet which then trailed onto the duvet on the floor, and which the jeans were on top of and that absolutely proves that the crime scene wasn't tampered with, like OP is trying to say it was! It also proves that the fan couldn't possibly have been in the place where OP says it was (i.e. where the duvet is on the floor .. and the fan doesn't appear to have been able to stretch that far anyway, because neither the extension lead or the lead on the fan is long enough to be able to place it in that position).

 

[TorisMom003]

Yes the jeans inside out definately makes me think Oscar is the one who took them off of her. However that happened, IDK. Perhaps Reeva had put her jeans on to leave, he got her and took them off of her in his rage. But the only thing with that is how would he do that on his stumps?

IMO and apparently Reeva's moms opinion as well, those are not Reeva's jeans. The jeans outside under the bathroom window area are Reeva's jeans. The ones on the bedroom floor are to big to belong to someone as thin as Reeva.

MOO

 

[aa9511]

O: I don't remember it being on the floor.

N: You said you remembered the duvet being on the bed, that's a nonsensical answer..

O: Explains how the splatter might have got there, Nel says he is arguing - why are you touching your eye now? Is it sore?

Judge steps in: I saw him touching his eye earlier.

bbm

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[TorisMom003]

Gosh I never thought of that.It all seems to be tying together.How did he think he would get away with his story.Image killing someone and then quick thinking a whole story.

He is Oscar Pistorius, South Africa's "golden boy". He has people that will take the blame for his wrongdoings simply because he asks them to. He is to be believed, he is telling the truth, while everyone around him is lying and/or colluding together to frame him. Besides, who are you going to believe? Him or your own eyes?

MOO

 

[DebinGA]

At this point I fail to see how Roux is going to be able to rehabilitate OP's cross exam. The lies have been pointed out time and time again. It's a shame that Roux has to defend OP when OP has thrown his defense team under the bus numerous times now.

MOO

Roux will have to reconcile OP's oft-repeated, "I didn't have time to think!" with today's tale that he didn't fire a warning shot into the shower because a ricochet off the tile might have hit him.

 

[BritsKate]

Interesting that when resisting saying why, who and what he shot, OP said that he shot "out of fright" more or less what Mdunge claimed for shooting his pregnant wife coming out of the bathroom mistaking her for a burglar. From News24, (link: http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Man-who-shot-wife-in-error-can-sympathise-with-Oscar-20140407)



So what OP said about shooting "in fright" on hearing the door opening, a door which has now become the magazine rack being moved, would prove BARD "culpable homicide", especially if the Mdunge case is anything to go by.

Nel's questioning is trying to pin OP down to admitting to intending to shoot an intruder which if he does would place him firmly in murder territory. On the other hand it may be the judge can already take the inference of OP's intent to shoot an intruder from OP saying that he shot at the "perceived danger " when the two are arguably inseparable as one and same thing, i.e. an intruder about to emerge and attack.

IMO, OP's desperate prancing around exactly what he shot at shows he has been rehearsed on this so he has that help, but Nel is doing no more than what the police would have done had OP co-operated and answered questions at the time, i.e. interrogate him to try to get to the truth. jmo

I honestly believe Nel nailed him on murder today. Here's the thing - Oscar's defence was supposed to be putative self-defence. In that, he intended to shoot because he was so in fear that his life was endangered there was no alternative and because a reasonable person would have reacted the same it can't be murder. Last week he said it was accidental. He keeps saying he never intended to shoot anyone but that isn't a putative self-defence claim at all - the evidence clearly shows he did intend to shoot whomever was behind that door. He's so focused on the perception of absolutely no wrong-doing on his part that he's oblivious to the fact that he's actually demolishing his own defence strategy.

An accidental shooting is one thing, a putative self-defence killing quite another, but by vacillating between the two I think Oscar helped the State prove it's case for murder.

JMO

 

[aa9511]

O: Milady, if the police officer placed it there by luck, it's unlucky for my version...

N:...you're tailoring your evidence. It's not true. When you spoke to Reeva, what did you say?

O says he said 'Get down and call the police' but says he said it in a 'low tone'. He did not whisper and agrees anyone who said he whispered is lying.

Nel points out OP was the one who said he whispered and now wants OP to read out where he said so.

bbm

Why is Oscar backtracking on the "whispering"?? Why is he lying about it now and saying he didn't whisper? I don't understand why he continues to be stubborn over things that he doesn't really even need to lie about?

 

[jassy writer]

The State DO have to present some version of events.

Look at all the wild theories posted here? Ranging fom OP chasing Reeva all around the house on his stumps, smashing doors, windows, firing an air rifle, watching Gay *advertiser censored*, firing extra shots out the window. Bashing the toilet door but leaving it delicately poised so that he can see Reeva etc etc etc. There has to be a REALISTIC version... a hypothesis of when the "argument" started.. and why? Why would a rational young man decide to chase, trap his (loved) girlfriend and shoot her at 3:00AM????... that is the biggest thing that "Does not make any sense"... The State do have to propose why such a bizarre event occurred at all. There is also the evidence and time line arising from State's own witnesses. It all fits OP's version and NOT the State's version, I gather from hints such as shots at 3:17... that is impossible and makes the State's version impossible from the outset (whatever the other details are)... stuff like that needs to be presented.. and the Defense have to have the opportunity to tear it apart... in the same way that Nel is attempting to tear OP's version apart.

I put it to you that it will be easy peasy to tear the State's version apart. Their own witnesses have already done that.

"Loved" girlfriend?

So loved that she never said "I love you" to him in any of the messages they sent, nor he to her?

So loved her sister in the UK didn't even know she was dating him.

So loved that he told the Sunday Times on 14 January 2013 that he was not in any serious relationship and that woman "lie" when they say they don't mind how busy a man is.

And that's before you get to the jealousy and control issues.

Hmmm.... not sure about your version of love, Rumpole, but to me this does not scream "loving relationship" at all!

 

[asanque]

OP's stories are just too full of holes to be true.

In my view this means he has something to hide and is likely guilty of the murder of Reeva.

However, the prosecution story still needs work.

Below is my working theory. I welcome any and all comments.

13th Feb
8:00 p.m. Dinner between Reeva and Oscar (true as per OP's testimony)

9:00 p.m. Discussion re: Reeva's modelling contract (OP's testimony) resulted in a fight as OP wanted to control some aspects of her modelling (my presumption based on OP's jealousy and controlling nature).

10:00 p.m - Argument is over but still simmering tempers. Reeva does do some Yoga (as per OP's testimony) and texts her family (I believe at 10:35 p.m) and OP looks at cars.

14th Feb
12:00 a.m. Both still awake and it has just ticked into Valentine's Day. Reeva still angry and depressed over her fight goes and gets food downstairs for comfort(disabling the alarm).

1:00 a.m. Upon getting back upstairs, fight begins when OP asks why Reeva didn't get him any food. Its hot and tempers frayed resulting in a fight escalating as Reeva has gotten him a gift but he hasn't gotten her one for Valentines. Reeva gets emotional and angry over the past issues from their earlier fight in the evening.

2:00 a.m. The fight gets extremely heated (loud arguing heard by Van der Merwe for an hour from 1:56 a.m.).

3:00 a.m. OP finally loses it and slams the bedroom door (breaking it as per evidence) and threatens Reeva.

Reeva screams and gets scared and runs into the bathroom before running into the toilet slamming the door and locking it.

OP comes in brandishing the cricket bat and hits the door. He threatens Reeva asking her to come out.

Reeva threatens to tell the media and continues screaming for help.

3:15 a.m.

OP fires a warning shot through the door and hits her on the hip and tells her to 'get the *advertiser censored** out'.

Reeva then says she will call the police (he is paranoid about his reputation and the police).

At that point he panics and shoots her 3 times.

He spent two minutes breaking the panel and confirming Reeva was seriously hurt behind the door.

He then called Stander (come help me with a problem), Netcare (out of immediate remose but vague description of injuries as he can't see through the door - results in them asking him to bring her in) and Baba (before hanging up).

OP at that time decides to try to cover everything up.

At 3:22 a.m. he opens the door and pulls her out (this explains why there is more blood in the toilet than bathroom).

Baba calls back and OP says everything is fine.

He then carries her partially downstairs (explaining arterial blood) when Stander and Baba arrive (3:26 a.m.)

OP is hoping the Standers will help him cover this issue up but he has no option when Baba also appears.

Sidenotes:
I contend that he was already wearing his prosthetics at the time (was kneeling when he shot Reeva) and already had the cricket bat on hand.

The continuing fights also explains why Reeva was in normal attire rather than night attire.

The blood in the bedroom (duvet etc.) comes from OP going up a few times to try and clear up evidence of his earlier fight with Reeva after Dr. Stipp arrived.

The fan remains blocking the balcony as he never had to move it and never went out anyway.

Bladder empty as she goes to urinate around 1:00 a.m. after her midnight meal.

The jeans thrown outside are a result of the earlier fight.

The bangs heard by the Stipps were from the slamming doors or the cricket bat hitting the door initially.

Reeva's phone was on the bathroom floor after OP tried to check whether she called police (but didn't know her PIN), so he threw the phone in anger and the cover came off

 

[G.bng]

Could be, but iirc, nothing to that nature has been put into evidence. Not yet, anyway.

I really don't think a nice clean educated 29 year old like Reeva would leave menstrual blood to drip here and there in her new bf's home even if they had an accident... just doesn't fit imo

 

[aa9511]

Wow. Nel hasn't got copies of something to give rest of court...now reading OP's whisper/soft manner statement.

O: I'm not steering away from a whisper-it was put to me she wouldn't have heard a whisper, so I said it was a low tone...

ETA: I'm surprised OP said that, but I think he did...

bbm

Never mind my above post...Oscar himself answered the question! LOL! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

So not only does he lie, he is also providing the reasoning for his lies. :floorlaugh:

 

[Suthrnqt]

bbm

Why is Oscar backtracking on the "whispering"?? Why is he lying about it now and saying he didn't whisper? I don't understand why he continues to be stubborn over things that he doesn't really even need to lie about?

I think it has become painfully clear that OP is 'not the brightest crayon in the box'. JMHO

 

[sleuth-d-]

Do you have a link for the exact time the security guy/Stander arrives?

Edit: I believe it is 3:45 ish

picked up earlier times from here...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10444828&highlight=baba#post10444828

post #437 #810

 

[asanque]

bbm

Why is Oscar backtracking on the "whispering"?? Why is he lying about it now and saying he didn't whisper? I don't understand why he continues to be stubborn over things that he doesn't really even need to lie about?

He can't win.

If he whispers, he should be close enough to tell she isn't there.

If it is a soft tone, she should have responded in some way.

I think the soft tone is the lesser of two evils for him and thus why he changed his story.

 

[Duchy]

How are you in a different time zone? I'm in Brisbane... I didn't know we had 2 time zones in Queensland!

It cannot be.....

 

[Duchy]

My secret desire:
in the Steenkamp bench suddenly a girl, decal of Reeva, sitting and always looking straight to OP in the dock.

Bizarre, I know. :blushing:

Get a grip lol x