Trial Discussion Thread #25 - 14.04.14, Day 22

[minor4th]

Sorry, I missed that. What was his response? blushing:Apologies if it's already been mentioned - I wouldn't know where to start trying to find it!)

No worries

He said the blood got there when he went over to the night table to get his phone

 

[BritsKate]

Don't forget that he is comparing Oscar's statements on the stand with written statements made for the bail hearing and some other hearing.

We don't do that sort of thing in this country. We are not required to testify against ourselves, which is what these written statements pretrial are.

Also, those written statements were written by lawyers. Have you ever had a lawyer write up a statement for you? If you trust them, as I'm sure Oscar did being a basket case, you end up with this situation.

Oscar testified to having said whispered last week. April 8th.

Nel doesn't really need statements - Oscar is changing testimony while in fact testifying. Making statements he later denies, adding tidbits never revealed before, etc.

 

[elfie]

I hate it when OP uses that phrase. He is not fighting for his 'life'......he is fighting for his "lifestyle". It is Reeva who lost her "life"!

Exactly! That was my same response the first time I heard him use that phrase. It was Reeva who was fighting for her life, and lost it by his hand.

 

[jassy writer]

IANAL
But I have read here that a "motive" is not something that the State have to prove.

I wasn't meaning that exactly.

It seems to be a sufficient test for Nel to pick out a detail in OP's "version"and say "that does not make sense". Leaving aside the fact that what does not make sense to Nel says more about Nel than anything else, if "Does not make sense" for a detail is sufficient for Nel to claim that OP's entire version is not true, sufficient for Nel to state in open court that Oscar Pistorius is a "LIAR" then surely something that does not make sense in such an obvious way as the fact that a guy shooting his girlfriend intentionally, at 3:00 AM, needs some explanation.

Imagine somebody recounting the State version, minute by minute and cross examined, and badgered about every detail. Why were OP and Reeva arguing, where was Reeva at every second, where was Op, was he on his stumps, when were the lights on/off, where was the damned duvet at every second (lol) What fan was where, when, why. Was the stereo on or off. When did Reeva go eat this mythical extra meal, was the alarm on or off. Who switched it on or off When did she run to the bathroom. What did she say. What did he say. etc etc etc.

I bet you anybody trying to get the State version straight would soon be "not making sense"

We KNOW the State version (whatever the detail) is impossible from their own witness testimony and phone record times.

NOT impossible, Rumpole! You are just ignoring every single post on the sequence of timing that does not fit in with your preconceived ideas. In fact a few (three or four) minutes would be more than enough time for him to break down a door. As I have already said to you, it makes way more sense than taking fifteen plus minutes to break down that same door! He hit it three times! What took him fifteen minutes to do that???????

 

[molly333]

Oscar testified to having said whispered last week. April 8th.

Nel doesn't really need statements - Oscar is changing testimony while in fact testifying. Making statements he later denies, adding tidbits never revealed before, etc.

yeah, because he is scared out of his mind and has no idea what he is doing or saying up there.

Ask me if I care whether he said 'whisper' or 'low tone.'

 

[nastasya]

yeah, because he is scared out of his mind and has no idea what he is doing or saying up there.

Ask me if I care whether he said 'whisper' or 'low tone.'

That's because he murdered his girlfriend and made up several of the worst alibis in the history of crime and how he's caught lying.

And it was OP who made the big deal of of NOT saying "whisper" about 30 seconds after he said "whisper." He wouldn't let it go.

 

[TipDog]

yeah, because he is scared out of his mind and has no idea what he is doing or saying up there.

You have every right to your opinions, but do you not realize that "he" - OP - is on trial for killing his girlfriend in a horrific manner? Or is that irrelevant to you?

He killed RS. He shot her. He is in that box "scared out of his mind" because of his actions. No one else did this to him and all the people he claims are out to get him, really aren't. And most importantly, Nel is doing his job (very well, might I add).

You claim he has "no idea what he is doing or saying up there" - perhaps, he should try being truthful and only saying what really happened that night instead of giving rehearsed answers followed by a whine, snivel and denial every time he gets tripped up whenever "his version" is questioned.

 

[asanque]

yeah, because he is scared out of his mind and has no idea what he is doing or saying up there.

Ask me if I care whether he said 'whisper' or 'low tone.'

It makes an absolute difference.

If you whisper to someone then you would normally be close enough to see them (even in the dark).

If you speak in a low tone, it implies a louder tone than a whisper and you could be further away.

 

[molly333]

Thank you for the link, Molly. Very interesting.

However - and I'm sure you knew this was coming - your relating statistics for inappropriate police interrogations that have lead to false confessions has little to nothing to do with how a prosecutor grills a defendant and zero to do with this trial.

Nel is not trying to coerce OP into a false confession. OP has already confessed. Nel is trying to get OP to tell the truth, because he's been privy to all of the evidence and he knows that OP's version is complete bulldung.

And as respectfully as I can suggest to you- maybe you're placing blame on the wrong interrogators? An officer roughing up a suspect in an interrogation room is not a prosecutor asking difficult but necessary questions in court in an effort to find truth and justice for the victim involved.

I maintain it is the same principle at work. This guy is now facing a hostile, diligent, motivated, and skillful interrogator for four six hour days who is making him accountable for, not only every word he says and has ever said, but every word his lawyer has ever said.

Why didn't your lawyer question the witness about that, Mr. Pistorius?

How should he know?

But, I put it to you, Mr. Pistorius, that the witness wasn't questioned because you are not being truthful with your version.

 

[Panda]

Sorry if this has been covered before and I can't believe I'm even asking this 4 days into OP's cross but, is it now clearly established that OP is claiming that his actions (shooting 4 times) were involuntary/unintentional and that he's not claiming intentional (albeit mistaken) self-defense? TIA.

Does anyone know what happens under SA law if he does change his plea mid stream?

 

[molly333]

It makes an absolute difference.

If you whisper to someone then you would normally be close enough to see them (even in the dark).

If you speak in a low tone, it implies a louder tone than a whisper and you could be further away.

Please. Ok. You win. It makes a difference of one foot.

Hardly matters when it's so dark you can't see your hand in front of your face.

 

[TipDog]

I maintain it is the same principle at work. This guy is now facing a hostile, diligent, motivated, and skillful interrogator for four six hour days who is making him accountable for, not only every word he says and has ever said, but every word his lawyer has ever said.

Why didn't your lawyer question the witness about that, Mr. Pistorius?

How should he know?

But, I put it to you, Mr. Pistorius, that the witness wasn't questioned because you are not being truthful with your version.

As well he should. He's on trial for murder.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Nice theory, too bad it's wrong.



I personally found somebody I loved who committed suicide about a month before Reeva was killed. It wasn't pretty.



I wish my memories were a complete blur. They're not. They're vivid and detailed, and they are in my thoughts every day.



For what it's worth, I fumbled for my cell phone and dialed 911 in the first 5 seconds of finding the body. I wouldn't hang up the phone with the 911 operator until the ambulance arrived.



I remember vividly the paramedic who got there first, the detectives, the people from the ME's office. Nothing is a blur. In fact, it's probably the strongest memory I have in my life.



My emotions when I think of that day are very similar to Reeva's mother. I have no idea what Pistorius is doing going into uncontrollable hysterics a over a year after her death. He never showed that much emotion about her when she was alive. Why now when she's dead?

(((((((Hugs))))))) I'm so sorry


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[TipDog]

Please. Ok. You win. It makes a difference of one foot.

Hardly matters when it's so dark you can't see your hand in front of your face.

BIB

He could see "her" jeans on the floor. I think those were a tad farther away from him than the end of his nose and tip of his fingertips.

 

[clearskies1]

Does anyone know what happens under SA law if he does change his plea mid stream?

I don't know and I'm not even sure that he's "changing" it. Was his plea vague enough to cover both scenarios?

 

[molly333]

That's because he murdered his girlfriend and made up several of the worst alibis in the history of crime and how he's caught lying.

And it was OP who made the big deal of of NOT saying "whisper" about 30 seconds after he said "whisper." He wouldn't let it go.

Oscar is having a nervous breakdown right in front of your eyes.

Congratulations, Nel!

 

[asanque]

Please. Ok. You win. It makes a difference of one foot.

Hardly matters when it's so dark you can't see your hand in front of your face.

If it was that dark, he should have been able to see Reeva use her mobile as a light to get to the bathroom (even facing backwards).

Try it yourself. Wait until its pitch black, close all your curtains. Get someone to use their mobile phone and you will see the light from your peripheral vision.

 

[Rumpole]

NOT impossible, Rumpole! You are just ignoring every single post on the sequence of timing that does not fit in with your preconceived ideas. In fact a few (three or four) minutes would be more than enough time for him to break down a door. As I have already said to you, it makes way more sense than taking fifteen plus minutes to break down that same door! He hit it three times! What took him fifteen minutes to do that???????

If shots after 3:17... then there is FAR to much stuff for OP to do before making calls starting 3:19.

At some point he has to get bat, put on legs, bash door (quietly so nobody hears) etc etc etc...

It is simply IMPOSSIBLE. Not even an issue.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I didn't misquote it. I said 25 percent and that says 25 percent of all cases.



I didn't realize murder cases were so high, though, 62 oercent in this study.

Forgive me....for interrupting... But what the heck does the topic of false confessions have to do with THIS case??????


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[asanque]

If shots after 3:17... then there is FAR to much stuff for OP to do before making calls starting 3:19.

At some point he has to get bat, put on legs, bash door (quietly so nobody hears) etc etc etc...

It is simply IMPOSSIBLE. Not even an issue.

Its not IMPOSSIBLE.

He was kneeling and running around by his own testimony so could have already had his legs on.

He also could have had the bat already out.

The door would have already been weakened by the gunshots.