Trial Discussion Thread #26 - 14.04.15, Day 23

[04009margaret]

He did say in his introduction that he had expertise in a wide range of areas. I guess we will know if he is indeed an 'expert' or a 'Jack of all trades master of none' when Nel cross-examines.

He may have said that but nowhere in his introduction did he ever say he attended medical school

 

[zwiebel]

Maddening. My internet went down just after morning tea break and has only just come back. I missed Roux's examination of OP. Was it enlightening?

Off to read up now.

 

[AlexUK]

This was a reply to someone suggesting it backed up Oscars loving relationship claim, i didn't say a word about abuse.
My honest opinion is she was much more into him than vice versa, that is all.

But...but...but....didn't he actually state early on that he thought he was more into her than she was to him??

Apologies for coming late to this....missed everything from lunchtime onwards today :blushing:

 

[wb180]

My problem is why shoot 4 times. Even if he heard someone in the toilet, wouldnt it be reasonable to fire a warning shot 1st maybe at the top of the door (for full effect - to show how serious he was) OR even shout and say I have a weapon.

The door was locked so he didnt hear any clicking of the door opening and even if he did the 1st shot would of determined his next move. He was reckless and imv INTENDED to kill whoever was behind the door or at the very least SEVERELY injure the person whether it was Reeva or not. Because 1 shot is a massive massive difference to 4. 1 promotes injury, 4, however, promotes a highly likely chance of death.

I just cant understand why there was no chat from him. He's been trained to use a weapon, so surely, human instinct, IF you want to frighten or warn someone is to talk. Tell them your intentions, tell them what you have, tell them that they're fooked. Not just blast off some shots in the hope you injure them or scare them away without giving them a chance. It doesnt make any sense.

Iv heard strange noises at night and being in the UK the best thing I have is a baseball bat. On 2 occasions, although no one was there in the end I had bat in hand ready to whip someones arse, BUT, on both incidents, I warned them. Giving them the opportunity (in my mind anyway) to scarper. OP has not mentioned anything of the sort. (Please correct me if im wrong).

Everything else that happened around the actual shooting isnt, imv, as important as his thought process in the bathroom, whether he thought it was a burglar or not. And for that reason, his reckless, irresponsible, cold, lunatic behaviour in firing 4 shots, with no warning shot (due to his lack of verbal) is INTENT to kill.

He said he was thinking about the warning shot and realised he didnt want to potentially harm himself with the ricochet of the bullet if he had shot into the shower cubicle, but what about straight up or at an angle towards the ceiling. Surely the bullet would go straight through or is the ceiling tiled aswell?

Just my thoughts.

Don't worry, even OP doesn't know what he actually did on that night if you compare his versions of events.

 

[04009margaret]

Beats all I've ever seen...................

Wait until Nel gets ahold of him!

Can't wait. He overstepped his expertise & his field in today's testimony

 

[Lochlynsmom]

I think the new benchmark is where some people is agreeing that a card from RS somehow shows both OP and RS love each other and that they are in a loving relationship...man...it feels weird just writing that haha.

Ironic isn't it that text messages can't show abuse but a card can show a healthy relationship...

 

[TrueDetective]

I'm open to hearing how I should look at it.

It's up to you how you look at it but I think you're looking at it the wrong way.
Simply, that it is proof of nothing other than that RS invested a lot more in the relationship than OP did and this significant imbalance is a primary reason for an argument to be triggered. It had happened before and on the eve of Valentines Day, it really exploded. You might have seen the results...
Funnily enough, The reveal of the card today actually strengthened my view on this.

 

[benn25]

I havent read the whole thread but this valentines card business is distracting. Imv OP didnt love Reeva. Period. It was 4 months for goodness sake! He didnt even get her a card for goodness sake. He embarrassed her in public. I dont think he even said he loved her when he was on the stand. She was blatantly more into him than he was her. The fact of the matter is that he could potentially have anyone he wanted. It seems to me he's a control freak, he thinks the world revolves around him as he's the golden child of white SA. He's probably got away with a number of things in the past being who he is and thought no one can touch him. He said he wasnt in a serious relationship when he was dating the poor girl, so that even says his thought pattern about how the relationship was going at the time. Which is normal. You dont know people in 4 months and they were still ironing out issues which is inevitable.

 

[Carol70]

"I crouched over her and I put my left arm underneath her right arm and I checked to see if she was breathing or she had a pulse," he continued. "I heard her breathing so I tried to get her up and out of the toilet. I wasn't able to so I scuttled round on my legs, which is probably how I kicked the magazine rack."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ved-him-in-valentines-day-letter-9261590.html

Which version is this one? We've had 'slumped over but still alive' which changed to 'she wasn't breathing' which changed to 'she was struggling to breathe' which changed to 'I heard her breathing'.

Just for interests sake, or anyone with medical knowledge..is it at all possible that someone who dies in an unnatural position or sudden death gives out a last breathe as soon as they are moved?

 

[Viper]

As I mentioned in an earlier thread, I wasn't in a chronically abusive relationship, but was in a situation where a boyfriend of three months threw a sudden onset-- and never before seen by me--- fit of rage against his home (walls, doors, cabinets, smashing, punching through walls, kicking) when I advised him I was breaking up with him.

And instead of trying to run out of the front or back doors...

I hid in a locked bathroom. :banghead:

BIB. LOL!!! I'm 6' tall and very physically fit, always have been. My first wife was 5'1" and very petite. She had a temper with me at times that no one that knew her outside of marriage could ever imagine. The one time that is funniest to me, looking back since you have just refreshed my memory, was during one of her tantrums in the living room; I had had enough and went to the bedroom to end it. Seconds later when she came and found the door locked she literally kicked the door open! :what: It totally freaked me out!!!

I had forgotten about all of that many years ago. But looking at what she did in that situation it is so very easy to see OP in her heels! :smile: don't know why some people are bending over backwards to defend what OP obviously did that night and make it seem to others that it was impossible. It was not impossible, it is what happened by the evidence, regardless of what OP says to try to escape encarceration.

 

[aoibhinn]

Maddening. My internet went down just after morning tea break and has only just come back. I missed Roux's examination of OP. Was it enlightening?

Off to read up now.

Your transcriptions were missed, Zwiebel. SABCDigitalNews uploads the sessions in 3 parts. They're very on the ball. First session is already up:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQBha2ZCAjU

 

[aa9511]

So OP said yesterday he shot at the door as he thought he heard a sound that meant someone was coming out, now he is saying he thought the sound was a mag rack.

Now Nel's onto Reeva's jeans being inside out.

O: When I got home, Reeva was already in her pjyamas. I don't know why she left them inside out

And I think Nel suggested Reeva tried to put on OP's clothes in her hurry to leave?

Morning all...just reading over trial posts for today - thank you so much Zwiebel!

Am so glad Nel brought up the jeans again. As for the bolded, I thought Reeva got to his house after Oscar??

 

[Viper]

Just for interests sake, or anyone with medical knowledge..is it at all possible that someone who dies in an unnatural position or sudden death gives out a last breathe as soon as they are moved?

BIB. No. Moving a corpse does not reverse its state of clinically dead to allow for "a last breath." A dead person is dead, no more breaths are physically possible.

I have just rejoined this thread. Why is that even an issue?

 

[wb180]

BIB. No. Moving a corpse does not reverse its state of clinical dead to allow for "a last breath." A dead person is dead, no more breaths are physically possible.

I have just rejoined this thread. Why is that even an issue?

I think just trying to give any benefit of doubt to OP's various versions of events when he carried RS. Unfortunately, still can't because OP is lying.

 

[aoibhinn]

Morning all...just reading over trial posts for today - thank you so much Zwiebel!

Am so glad Nel brought up the jeans again. As for the bolded, I thought Reeva got to his house after Oscar??

I watched a few documentaries on the case last weekend. If the info is correct, Reeva left his house at 5:45pm (approx) and returned at 6:00pm on 13th Feb. He arrived home about 15 mins after Reeva returned, so possibly about 6:15pm.

They had exchanged a number of short phone calls prior to this, throughout the late afternoon.

 

[benn25]

Another theory.

OP shoots Reeva for whatever reason. Realises what he's done and thinks to himself, if she survives, it will come out anyway and thats my career finished and decides to shoot 3 more times to make sure the jobs a guddan. Its lame but im just being as illogical as OP.

 

[aa9511]

Oh, how kind of OP .. he was worried about a plank from the door hitting Reeva! :facepalm:

blah, vomit, vomit - how anyone can have sympathy for this guy after the narcissism he has shown on the stand is puzzling.

Yes, he had a hard childhood, relatively, and dealt with unique circumstances. I do give him that and am not taking that away from him. But that is no excuse for his narcissistic behavior.

JMO.

 

[kaos]

Morning all...just reading over trial posts for today - thank you so much Zwiebel!

Am so glad Nel brought up the jeans again. As for the bolded, I thought Reeva got to his house after Oscar??

I thought he was at the house already too and didn't she go out to the shops for food for dinner?

 

[whiterum]

Maybe they could only afford one expert witness?

Either that or they could not find experts in each field whose findings where in disagreement to the States evidence.

 

[hetty]

It's up to you how you look at it but I think you're looking at it the wrong way.
Simply, that it is proof of nothing other than that RS invested a lot more in the relationship than OP did and this significant imbalance is a primary reason for an argument to be triggered. It had happened before and on the eve of Valentines Day, it really exploded. You might have seen the results...
Funnily enough, The reveal of the card today actually strengthened my view on this.

I fully respect your view, even if I don't agree. As I said before I think Oscar is guilty, I just don't think it was an abusive relationship, or even that Oscar was less invested (based on the absence of a card - based on that presumption I would have to conclude my husband does not love me, yet we have been married almost 30 years..he does, he just doesn't get the importance of such things to a woman), more likely a moment of madness, triggered by what exactly we may never know.