Trial Discussion Thread #26 - 14.04.15, Day 23

[Madeleine74]

Yes, the attorneys being interviewed said it was tactical and the right thing to do to prevent OP from any more damaging answers to questioning. It also meant that Roux was able to talk to OP now.

Digging a hole and then keeps on digging. Roux trying to pull him out of that deep dive. All that work Roux's done. But then again, putting a defendant on the stand is super risky, which is why most defense attorneys do whatever they can to avoid it.

 

[aa9511]

He was never on his stumps that night (when he shot into the door he either shot from the hip, or got down on his knees to make it look like he was on his stumps), so any photos trying to replicate this are misleading, imo.

I think he shot in this manner:

Hold your hand together (pretend-gun), and place them below your breasts (mine are saggy so your might have to lower some, IYKWIM.....:floorlaugh::floorlaugh)

Anyway.....then extend your arms out all the way, then point them downward.

In my reproduction, my hands end up being generally around my waist area.

So I think my reproduction ends up with gun shooting from generally around the same area as Oscar on stumps, shooting the gun with arms extended from up around his shoulder-area.

I think Oscar was on his prosethetics.

 

[Viper]

i did think it was odd that all the initial splinter stuff seemed to confirm that she was standing close to the door. which is what state had said iirc. why have an expert witness to agree with state evidence?

BIB. I don't know for sure. But the DT does seem to be throwing as much stuff at the wall as they can hoping that some of it will stick. OPs convoluted testimony shows that. This expert did the lights stuff, OP was too short to be seen by the Stipps, ballistics, pathology, sound testing, ??? IDK, he was just all over the place, just like all of the rest of the Defense's case.

 

[aoibhinn]

Thanks aoibhinn!

It's a challenge to keep up with each day's happenings here while also trying to follow other cases too.

What case is starting in May that was alluded to? Not ringing a bell for me.

I'm not sure about the new case starting in May (blocking ears!!!). They are so addicting. I will fail my exams that start in two weeks, procrastinating as I am by following this one. :scared:

 

[Carmelita]

This should be an eye opener for the few OP apologists over here who adamantly insist he is just a spoiled brat, who proudly displays at will his mischievous temper.

I have not seen any Oscar apologist here.

I have no vested interest in the outcome of this case other than justice for Reeva. I don't know if that is going to happen. I hope that I am wrong.

The judge will not be using a Mirror article to render her decision, she will be using the evidence, her own prejudices, emotions and the advice of her two court experts (sorry I don't remember what they are called).

Roux by his short examination of Oscar has opened wider the door for appeal due to mental defect IMO.

 

[zwiebel]

Thanks aoibhinn!

It's a challenge to keep up with each day's happenings here while also trying to follow other cases too.

What case is starting in May that was alluded to? Not ringing a bell for me.

Just jumping in here so excuse me if I haven't got the case alluded to (I'm getting 2 mins on the internet to every five mins off at the mo), but I think it is the Honeymoon Murder of Anni Dewani in SA.

The thread is here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121605&highlight=dewani

 

[hetty]

If you honestly believe that, I'm afraid you simply don't understand how controlling abusive relationships work .




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have more experience of a controlling abusive relationship than you could possibly imagine. I simply have a different opinion than you.

 

[Madeleine74]

I can't get it to send in a message. Odd, because I originally found the link on this forum. I don't want to put any info, just in case it's against forum rules. Perhaps due to it being a personal blog....

I'm not sure about the new case starting in May (blocking ears!!!). They are so addicting. I will fail my exams that start in two weeks, procrastinating as I am by following this one. :scared:

I got it, Aoibhinn!

I know about this addiction you speak of. And (true confession): I really, really enjoy arguing...errrr....debating cases. There's one or 2 cases that I follow closely that have what might appear like some smackdown, dragout fights since the cases have been ongoing in one form or another for several years and the same people end up arguing. It's similar to a bunch of guys who beat each other up for fun & then go out for a couple beers afterwards.

HOWEVER, this OP case is not really that much of a mystery IMO.

He's got a temper, he's got a gun, he's got really deadly bullets, and he's got a dead girlfriend in the loo, while claiming he thought an intruder had crawled into his 2nd floor bathroom window (how said intruder did that, no one can figure out) and said intruder locked himself in the loo where he menaced OP. That doesn't seem reasonable to me. I realize OP is a paranoid gun-toting testosterone-fueled dude with a temper, but he's considered sane, so....

 

[sleuth-d-]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eeva-Steenkamp-met-ex-just-2-days-killed.html

Mr Lahoud said he would be giving police a statement.
He said that during his five years with Miss Steenkamp, he could not remember her locking the toilet door when she went to the bathroom.


'''''''''''''''
can anyone help with which bf was the aggressive/abusive one. i assume it was not mr lahoud.

 

[Hope4More]

Doesn't the message in the Valentines card at least cast doubt on the idea that this was an abusive, non loving relationship? Reeva was a beautiful, sucessful, financially independent woman, she could have been involved with almost anyone she wanted, I'm certain..to cast her as somehow trapped in an abusive situation, I don't buy it...she did not have to write on the card that she loved him, she chose to, and that speaks volumes to me. I think that card will have a big influence on the Judge, very telling that Nel did not have it read out, since it strongly contradicts the relationship he has tired to portray.

Even beautiful successful professional women can and do end up in abusive relationships. That she said I love you to him in a card is meaningless as evidence one way or another about their relationship.

Far more telling, IMO, is that so early on in what was a very short relationship she was speaking of being afraid of his temper, of her dismay about how he humiliated her in public, and her sad pleas to him that she was doing her best to please him.

Reeva's mother has spoken of a time when Reeva called her, panicked. Pistorious was angry, driving recklessly, and ignoring her pleas to slow down. She called her mother from the car , begging her to tell Pistorious to slow down. Sorry, but none of this is remotely what I'd call a loving or healthy relationship.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I have more experience of a controlling abusive relationship than you could possibly imagine. I simply have a different opinion than you.

I can't imagine believing anyone with a clear understanding would/could point to that card as evidence of the state or quality of a relationship.

I also find it disingenuous that anyone with knowledge of the subject could/would come to the belief that it doesn't happen~couldn't happen...to a beautiful, successful and intelligent woman.

IMO It was the beginning of a relationship. Controlling and abusive doesn't happen overnight. It's Insidious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[zwiebel]

Oh, I just read Reeva's Valentine message. How terribly, terribly sad she chose to declare her love for him, the day before he chose to blow her skull apart.

I do hope South African judiciary locks him up, accidental shooting or deliberate. He's a very dangerous man, in my opinion, and I doubt, after this, he'll ever be a safe one. Oscar Pistorius crossed a finishing line there's no going back from and definitely no victory from, the day he shot poor Reeva.

 

[Madeleine74]

Let's remember this great loving relationship <cough> was 3 months duration. Seemed like a lot of drama and angst in a period of time that is usually the 'honeymoon' period of any new relationship. I put it to you (heh) this emerging pattern did not bode well for the future of said relationship, even without the killing. Although yeah, killing someone is definitely a way to force a breakup. Not a good way, mind you...

 

[Carmelita]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eeva-Steenkamp-met-ex-just-2-days-killed.html

Mr Lahoud said he would be giving police a statement.
He said that during his five years with Miss Steenkamp, he could not remember her locking the toilet door when she went to the bathroom.


'''''''''''''''
can anyone help with which bf was the aggressive/abusive one. i assume it was not mr lahoud.

This to me is odd.

I cannot tell you if a single member of my family or if any of my friends lock the bathroom door when they go inside the loo. I have never noticed or paid the least bit of attention. I would find it curious that anyone could remember whether or not someone locked or didn't lock a bathroom door behind them.

 

[04009margaret]

There's a guy on Oscar Radio at 8pm (I'm guessing SA time) whose worked with both Nel and Roux. The DJ on there also pointed out that Roux's time with OP on the stand today was only 9 mins.

I'm presuming the host is a lawyer as he was talking about his legal training the other day

 

[DebinGA]

....
Roux by his short examination of Oscar has opened wider the door for appeal due to mental defect IMO.

respectfully snipped by me for relevance ...

I'd like to hear more about OP's "mental defect". I think he has a "character defect" for sure.

 

[Linda7NJ]

This to me is odd.

I cannot tell you if a single member of my family or if any of my friends lock the bathroom door when they go inside the loo. I have never noticed or paid the least bit of attention. I would find it curious that anyone could remember whether or not someone locked or didn't lock a bathroom door behind them.

I don't think anyone in my house locks the bathroom door. The only time I lock it, is if I'm home alone and bathing or taking a shower.

I've seen psycho.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BritsKate]

This should be an eye opener for the few OP apologists over here who adamantly insist he is just a spoiled brat, who proudly displays at will his mischievous temper.

I truly hope so. For me, this goes a lot further than what happened to a bright, beautiful woman on a continent I've never been to. It isn't about a handful of texts, a single card, or even getting a birthday wrong. Its about a pervasive attitude that someone, anyone, can berate, belittle, threaten or intimidate others and its often disregarded, minimised, justified, or accepted.

Abusive behaviours are extremely destructive to those in receipt. Someone, anyone, exhibiting them deserves a deeper level of scrutiny because quite often non-physical abuse leads to physical and sometimes fatal violence.

So its my hope, even if one doesn't believe Oscar could be abusive, that they're more aware of potential red flags that may one day save someone they love. A quick temper; overt disrespect of someone they believe more vulnerable; justification of behaviours they know hurt others or blaming them instead of accepting responsibility for their own actions; controlling, possessiveness, domineering, or intense jealousy; a history of physical violence - and threats to commit such violence are included; using a weapon to intimidate; reckless behaviour; opposition to authority; wanting to intensify a relationship quickly; seeking to isolate a victim, even if its just a psychological isolation - like making them feel guilty for spending time with friends; checking up on them; manipulation; intimidation and gaslighting are all warning signs of a potential abuser.

Reeva's passion was fighting violence against women. In South Africa, a woman is murdered by her intimate partner every 8 hours. It's fitting her legacy be what she so passionately fought against - violence, in any form; abuse, of any type, is never acceptable. Whether one is an international icon or a beggar on the corner.

All JMO, FWIW, and apologies for the length. Its a passion I share with Reeva.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[kaos]

This to me is odd.

I cannot tell you if a single member of my family or if any of my friends lock the bathroom door when they go inside the loo. I have never noticed or paid the least bit of attention. I would find it curious that anyone could remember whether or not someone locked or didn't lock a bathroom door behind them.

If he was with her for 5 years I think it'd be safe to say he knew her habits. Neither me or my partner lock the door when it's just a pee and we were both doing that from early on in our relationship.

 

[zwiebel]

For somebody who never gives up and believes in trying when there is little hope at all - for example, winning an Olympic gold in an able-bodied event, when you've had your legs amputated - Oscar gave up very easily when he finally won his fight to reach Reeva in the toilet. he just sat there for "I don't know how long" before calling for help.

And called for Stander's help because "I couldn't pick her up".

But then somehow did pick her up, before Stander arrived, and met him while holding Reeva in his arms - in fact, says he only put her down because Stander told him to/made him.

It does not make sense.