Trial Discussion Thread #29

[Gbtaketwo]

I have always thought the cricket bat came first as there was so much screaming according to ear witnesses. Whilst I am sure she would scream when shot the first/second time there would have been very little time for there to be continued screaming. I think he hit the door to frighten her and when she wouldn't stop screaming he collected his gun and fired. I appreciate there has been a comment from one of the expert witnesses about the shot coming before the door was split but what if the split was minimal until the shot had been fired. That panel would then break and OP would be able, after the murder, to prise the door panels apart.

MOO

There is still a possibility that the split through the bullet hole marked D occurred during the prising off part of the panel and not from the original blow by the cricket bat .
Final arguments from Nel will be very interesting to us all especially in this regard . I feel he will surely need to mention what he believes the first bangs were.

 

[shane13]

Tightly clenched jaw, narrowed stare...


Anger. Intense anger. A killing intense anger.

Could be.
But could also be a TMJ (jaw joint) problem.
Here you can feast your eyes on Oscar "lookalike" getting some treatmernt.

 

[Onlyamum]

The witness heard the series of two sets of 'gunshots' happening together.

So bang bang bang bang. Two sets of bangs. Not a random series of noises.

yes i understand. I was only saying that perhaps the kicking was one of the two sets of bangs. I do not know what type of material the legs are made from therefore they could have possibly been heard first and the bat noises not heard at all

 

[Freya1977]

Another strange question from the assessor (a few days ago) was "did Reeva know how to work the remote alarm" or words to that effect. I thought that was strange. Oscar didn`t know.
I believe that Reeva was at the point of being totally consumed with protecting herself from Oscar`s rage and ran into the toilet and locked the door. It appeared to escalate very quickly and she probably didn`t even think to grab the remote.

I'd asked the same question myself. For one thing, if she knew how to work the alarm, she easily could have switched it off to go downstairs and have a snack while OP slept, explaining the food in stomach.


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[Freya1977]

I counted 5 other houses in this picture that we have yet to hear from and they were all closer than the witnesses we have heard from, including the houses on either side of OP.

We can see why Stipps had such a good earwitness, since there are no houses between them and OP, simply a field separating them. It also shows why the gun and bat would have carried well across the field, and why the experiments in the open area are valid. It recreates the conditions under which they were heard by Stipps.

Question: were there houses on either side of Stipps at the time?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/211391077/CSI-Oscar-Pistorius

BBM

No it doesn't. The gun shots and bat strikes occurred in a small confined space during the incident, and a wide open space in the recreation by Dixon.


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[fox1lady]

.... From that nyt's link:

“we should go to the range,” he said. He fetched his 9-millimeter handgun and two boxes of ammunition. We got back in the car and drove to a nearby firing range, where he instructed me on proper technique. Pistorius was a good coach. A couple of my shots got close to the bull’s-eye, which delighted him. “maybe you should do this more,” he said. “if you practiced, i think you could be pretty deadly.” i asked him how often he came to the range. “just sometimes when i can’t sleep,” he said.
............................................................................................................
When roux's gun expert/s testify, i hope nel produces that shooting range's logs showing how often and how many years op was been practicing aiming-shooting at a target there.

omg!!!!

 

[DebinGA]

Since OP's newest version has Reeva wide awake and speaking to him when he got up at 3:00, why is it important for the DT that she didn't eat something around 1:00 when he was still asleep?

 

[Feynman]

Has anyone seen this 'map' before? It is rather different from the one we have had posted already. It makes more sense if this is really where Van Der Merwe lives. It also makes clearer where the Burgers live and how there were no intervening houses to block noise at the time.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/211391077/CSI-Oscar-Pistorius

I don't think that's where van der Merwe lives. That diagram places her closer, much closer, to OP's house than are the Stipps. But vdM lives about 100m away from OP, Stipps about 70m away. Also, that house is on a pretty direct line to both the bathroom and the bedroom OP's house. Very unlikely it's vdM's from what we've heard.

My impression was that vdM lived across the street, below and to the right of anything shown on the diagram.

 

[steveml]

But, what I'm wondering, is did Nel say anything about the first set of 'gunshots' in his case in chief?

I don't particularly care what he says in his closing arguments. At any rate, they will have to rely on evidence brought into court.

I didn't hear him mention the first 'gunshots' when he was giving the court his version. And, I am assuming he felt the bat could not be heard and happened after the gunshots.

From memory I think that's correct Molly.

Nel doesn't appear to have any explanation for the first set of noises, at least nothing evidence based.

As it's unlikely that the *defence witnesses will resolve this for the PT it looks likely that Nel may just introduce it as a theory during closing argument.

* this is presuming that the defence witnesses do not provide contrary theories to the defence case.

 

[soozieqtips]

One of the first things that struck me when OP took to the stand he said "I am taking responsibility, I have put my life on hold for the last year to come here and defend myself"

Narcissist much, Mr. Pistorius?

BBM - So in Oscar World, turning up for your own murder trial is 'taking responsibility'.

:floorlaugh:

 

[Interested Bystander]

One of the first things that struck me when OP took to the stand he said "I am taking responsibility, I have put my life on hold for the last year to come here and defend myself"
Narcissist much, Mr. Pistorius?

Who does he think he is kidding? He has been out partying, holidaying, and a new girlfriend in tow. Not exactly on hold by a long stretch. He hasn't been running in competitions because he has not been offered a place in any events. It would be too embarrassing for him and the organisers. Though I have to say a good booing wouldn't go amiss.

 

[Freya1977]

One of the first things that struck me when OP took to the stand he said "I am taking responsibility, I have put my life on hold for the last year to come here and defend myself"

Narcissist much, Mr. Pistorius?

Yep, it's all about him. Unbelievable statement to make. Does he realize he no longer HAS a life to put on hold? He's finished, whether he spends the next 30 years in prison or not.

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[Gbtaketwo]

Since OP's newest version has Reeva wide awake and speaking to him when he got up at 3:00, why is it important for the DT that she didn't eat something around 1:00 when he was still asleep?

This puzzles me as well .
In fact this afternoon I was discussing with my hubby this point as well as a few others things that makes his defence case worse.
The change in the side of the bed
The fact that he never left the room with to retrieve the fans
The fact that the balcony light was on
The fact that he shot one handed
The fact that he said he could see Reeva in the bed ( although that might have been before he allegedly close the curtains )
The fact that he could see reeve through the crack in the door
The fact that the balcony doors were closed when the police first went upstairs
I am sure there are lots more things other than these.His version was difficult to believe before but all these things sure didn't help .

 

[Interested Bystander]

I don't think that's where van der Merwe lives. That diagram places her closer, much closer, to OP's house than are the Stipps. But vdM lives about 100m away from OP, Stipps about 70m away. Also, that house is on a pretty direct line to both the bathroom and the bedroom OP's house. Very unlikely it's vdM's from what we've heard.

My impression was that vdM lived across the street, below and to the right of anything shown on the diagram.

Yes, I had seen that too. Perhaps it is incorrect. Though I don't see any way of double-checking which is correct. Perhaps there is a way to do so if one lives in SA, ie electoral register.

 

[Feynman]

That's a very interesting point. People are blaming Dixon, but I put all the blame on Roux who in essence vouched for his credentials and findings by putting him up there.

You need two morons for this: Roux and the loser, Dixon, who probably testified out of petty vanity (world stage and all).

 

[soozieqtips]

Who does he think he is kidding? He has been out partying, holidaying, and a new girlfriend in tow. Not exactly on hold by a long stretch. He hasn't been running in competitions because he has not been offered a place in any events. It would be too embarrassing for him and the organisers. Though I have to say a good booing wouldn't go amiss.

He's after the sympathy vote for having to put his life on hold!

Poor me. I had to put my life on hold so I could attend my murder trial.

 

[Viper]

Here is what I believe created the first set of bangs at 3:00:

1) Reeva makes it to the WC and slams the door, quickly locking it.
2) Oscar was immediately behind her and hits the door twice with the bat. He was obviously trying to scare her with the forceful blows to the door and the loud noise that it created inside the WC.
3) Oscar then hits the bathtub plate expressing pure anger and frustration.

I believe all of that happened in very quick succession.

That the two argued more, that Reeva cried and screamed for someone to help, and that it went on for 17 minutes without Reeva using her phone does not make sense to me, unless she did not have her phone. Either her phone's battery was dead or OP had her phone. I can imagine Reeva trying to calm OP and defuse his anger by talking to him through the door. But when she started screaming for help that indicates to me that she had given up on getting out of there without someone coming to her aid.

 

[shane13]

BBM - So in Oscar World, turning up for your own murder trial is 'taking responsibility'.

:floorlaugh:

He did have many better things to do:
shooting a robot,
taking a passenger and driving them at 155 mph in the rain and tailgating, crashing cars, boats, mopeds, etc.

And sprinting. Sadly might have become the "fastest man in the world" with 2nd Gen. prosthetics.

 

[TorisMom003]

Quote from the link:
When the court reconvenes, the next defense witness will be Johan Stander, manager of the Silver Woods Estate where Pistorius lived and the first person the athlete called after he shot Steenkamp.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/17/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial/?c=&page=2

The only thing that comes to mind with Stander testifying is OPs state of mind after he killed; I'm guessing he was upset, the dramatic carrying her down the stairs, faking CPR, wanted Dr. Stipp to undo Reeva's death, blah blah blah... So I guess the defense is really going to put a lot of emphasis on psychological states now.

BTW. I would have thought that the ballistics expert would have been next. ??? Can it reasonably possibly be that the expert reconsidered and changed his opinions after watching Dixon and Professor Botha get torn to shreds by the Pit Bull? Is the DT without a ballistics expert? Hmm...

ETA: Their pathologist, who had attended the autopsy, and had been working with them for over a year won't be testifying now; something about a conflict with his schedule. It may very well be that the defense has run out of expert witnesses, other than a psychologist and or a psychiatrist.

Not caught up with all the posts yet, but how is Johan Stander going to be allowed to testify when he was sitting in court during testimony for at least one day?

 

[weeeva]

Thank you for your answer. I still find it extraordinary that he would not turn to Reeva on hearing the noise. A window being opened could well be a harmless action by his house guest, it's not as though it was the sound of a window being broken.

I don't agree that the other couples "would have reacted differently if the noise was in their own house". I think the natural, instant reaction is to seek reassurance or confirmation: "did you hear that?" Lots of forum members have said on these threads that that's the first thing they do if they hear a noise. Different if one is alone in the house, of course.

I understand that most people would not react in a similar way to OP, but I also believe that sometimes the truth really IS stranger than fiction. How often do you hear people say "you couldn't make it up" That's probably why I stopped reading fiction years ago, I always feel it is too far fetched. We will never know what actually happened that night, it is very frustrating.