Trial Discussion Thread #3 - 14.03.08-09, Weekend

[lisasalinger]

Apart from OP's alleged paranoid fear that night , why are we to believe that Reeva felt the same in the loo when OP was shouting for her to call the police and his voice appraoching toward her and that she kept silent while being killed violently? .. It was mentioned in the affi that bedroom door was locked and if Reeva got up and went to the loo passing thru the bathroom from where an intruder would ever come in? From the sky ? All of these nonsense things are too much . We don't know the reason but it's clear as day that OP murdered Reeva in cold blood IMO ...

So trying to fit all those heard woman's screams was in fact OP's own voice , awaikened neighbors, shoulder injuries and switching sides , OP changing affidavits or whatever and 2 fans and pitch darks and fully closed curtains and slides and Reeava's clothes on and hidden 5th phone and forgotten password , Reeva's alleged silence and , yelling 'Help help help' but in fact not calling anyone , everhthing is fine (!) , so many coverups I can't count .. I have never heard so much weird and absurd version of events altogether in a case ..More laughable is the efforts to paint this version to an innocent OP and accident format .. Comeon guys noone is stupid .. Whether you accept it or not golden boy is in fact a tin garbage boy and disgraced himself to the whole world online and a human being in no way can shoot 4 times thru a closed door to another human being otherwise that is murder .Home invasions being common in SA , being vulnerable or paranoid is not an excuse imo.

BBM

This is such an excellent point and one I totally agree with. I don't believe for a second that Reeva was hiding from an intruder in the bathroom based on Oscar's supposed shout out of an intruder.

According to him, she had just been in bed with Oscar a minute before, had walked to the bathroom and obviously had no concerns whatsoever. And he was up and out on the balcony with no concerns whatsoever.

In the next few seconds, Oscar is barreling down the hallway with his gun yelling that there is an intruder. He was not 5 rooms away, he was simply several feet away from the bathroom. I highly doubt she would have had time to get it together enough to turn off the lights, hide in the bathroom and lock the door... all without uttering one single word or squeak. It was 3am and she was supposedly just sleeping. It seems much more logical to me that she would be totally confused as to what the heck was going on.

Add that to Dr. Stipp seeing the bathroom light on at the same time he hears the female screams (which were supposedly right after the first bangs), and it just continues to fall apart.

I really wish we could see more crime scene photos from the bathroom. I'd love to see exactly how the window looked (were there blinds?), where the gun was, the bat was, the phones, etc. I've seen drawings but those pale in comparison to the real deal. What's the chance we'll ever see this stuff?

 

[Carol70]

Apparently there is a whole "cult" of Pistorius admirers who were badmouthing Reeva on Twitter. A bunch of nutters it seems - and the Pistorius family came out harshly against them.

The comments on the articles are more interesting because of the issues they raise about turmoil in the relationship, among other things.

I agree, more than likely trolls simply for the meanness and blantant cattiness, mostly from women. The comments are way too personal in nature alluding to boob jobs and her sleeping around, plain nasty.

 

[gxm]

These are from under a different article (if someone wants to read more of them: http://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/reeva-and-oscars-parents-still-tussling-over-settlement.htm )



The way they speak of Reeva is by all means disgusting, and I certainly dislike (to put it mildly) speaking in such a way about a dead person who cannot defend themselves, but I think these comments might be important for the case, as they possibly provide Prosecution with a motive.

And there are MANY comments like these around the internet... apparently from the people who knew both of them very well..

I wonder if any of this will come out during the trial...

p.s. I apologize for any speling & grammar mistakes, I am not a native speaker, so bare with me, please

The comments do not *show* anything because they are rumor and have not been verified. I thought it was against TOS to post comment sections for this very reason. For all we know, it could be an OP PR campaign of character assassination.

 

[lisasalinger]

Did you catch the irony...?

At the end of Mr Baba's testimony, the translator looked at him and asked "Are you OK?" [or such] She noted that he looked sick apparently.

He said "I'm fine."

Roux then said something like "Mylady, despite Mr Baba saying he is fine, he doesn't seem to be so. So I ask that we adjourn now." [Or words to that effect.]

So the irony is that Mr. Baba played perhaps a significant role in this whole matter by insisting on seeing Oscar because he believed that Oscar was lying when he said everything was fine.

But here appararently he himself [Baba] was really sick and fibbed when he said that he was "fine."

This is an innocent, and perhaps machismo type of lie.

But it is ironic that his saying he was fine when he apprently was not, is what Oscar did--though in far more consequential ways.

Did you catch this irony?

BBM

I don't take that to be irony at all. Knowing Roux, I take that to be an enormous opportunity to point out to the court that people say "I'm fine" all the time. But let's be real, the two situations cannot even remotely be compared.

Admittedly, I haven't seen this part of the testimony yet so I can't say for sure, but I'm guessing underneath it was oozing with sarcasm.

 

[Lyra500]

The comments are shocking and yes the level of hatred seems intense - however, it raises questions for me and I would like to know more about her history and their relationship. Partly for the morbid curiosity, but also because it could provide some context for the events in February 2013

Forgive me for asking, but i am curious.

You seemed very unconvinced by most of the testimony so far in the trial, dismissing Samantha as 'a woman scorned' and suggesting that the witnesses were not trustworthy, yet you are really interested to read a selection of unattributable bile from unknown posters and suggest they are really helpful and give 'context'.

Oscar Piatorius has a whole legion of women who are frankly unhealthily obsessed with how 'hot' he is and who have been vitriolic in their condemnation of Reeva right from the start.

Why would you trust internet comments from unknown sources to provide information when you are not even willing to accept the testimony of university lecturers and medical professionals who were actually there?

And actually, given Oscar's version of events, personality can have absolutely no bearing on why her shot her dead since he says he did not know it was her when he shot through the bathroom door.

People cannot have it all ways. Either he knew it was Reeva and shot her dead which is murder or he thought it was an intruder and shot them dead, which is still murder.

It doesnt matter what Reeva was like, it is still murder.

Patagonia - i have to say i find pasting all those poisonous comments a bit questionable. How do you know that those people actually know Reeva or OP? How do you know most of them are not huge OP fans just stirring up trouble?

 

[Lyra500]

The comments do not *show* anything because they are rumor and have not been verified. I thought it was against TOS to post comment sections for this very reason. For all we know, it could be an OP PR campaign of character assassination.

I agree 100% and think posting all that stuff was pretty out of order to be frank.

 

[minor4th]

BBM

I don't take that to be irony at all. Knowing Roux, I take that to be an enormous opportunity to point out to the court that people say "I'm fine" all the time. But let's be real, the two situations cannot even remotely be compared.

Admittedly, I haven't seen this part of the testimony yet so I can't say for sure, but I'm guessing underneath it was oozing with sarcasm.

It was kind of mumbled and trailing off .. frankly, Roux seemed worn out and ready to call it a day.

ATM I don't really make anything of the "everything is fine" - there are countless interpretations and explanations. For example, if that is what Oscar said - since he was talking to security, he may have meant, that everything is fine and there is no security risk because there's in fact no burglar.

 

[shane13]

BBM

I don't take that to be irony at all. Knowing Roux, I take that to be an enormous opportunity to point out to the court that people say "I'm fine" all the time. But let's be real, the two situations cannot even remotely be compared.

Admittedly, I haven't seen this part of the testimony yet so I can't say for sure, but I'm guessing underneath it was oozing with sarcasm.

Very intereting.

We will see. Somehow I don't think it would be wise for Roux to play this up, because fibbing as Mr. Baba did is somehting many would do.
Lying about everything being fine when you just shot your GF, and she desperately needs help, is vastly different.

So if Roux goes into deetail about this, I think it will backfire, as numerous ploys have for him so far. JMOOC

 

[minor4th]

Forgive me for asking, but i am curious.

You seemed very unconvinced by most of the testimony so far in the trial, dismissing Samantha as 'a woman scorned' and suggesting that the witnesses were not trustworthy, yet you are really interested to read a selection of unattributable bile from unknown posters and suggest they are really helpful and give 'context'.

Oscar Piatorius has a whole legion of women who are frankly unhealthily obsessed with how 'hot' he is and who have been vitriolic in their condemnation of Reeva right from the start.

Why would you trust internet comments from unknown sources to provide information when you are not even willing to accept the testimony of university lecturers and medical professionals who were actually there?

And actually, given Oscar's version of events, personality can have absolutely no bearing on why her shot her dead since he says he did not know it was her when he shot through the bathroom door.

People cannot have it all ways. Either he knew it was Reeva and shot her dead which is murder or he thought it was an intruder and shot them dead, which is still murder.

It doesnt matter what Reeva was like, it is still murder.

Patagonia - i have to say i find pasting all those poisonous comments a bit questionable. How do you know that those people actually know Reeva or OP? How do you know most of them are not huge OP fans just stirring up trouble?

Because if this was indeed a tumultuous relationship, it could provide a motive for the killing - as none has been mentioned so far in the trial.

ETA: I was not suggesting that those comments were truthful or should be believed. That is why I asked if there was any more information about her and about their relationship - maybe from a more reliable source.

 

[wishIknewmore]

Going to finally jump in here but thought it best to first say "hello" and that I've been reading these posts from the 1st day. I haven't posted much because by the time I usually catch up, someone else has already pointed out what I was going to say.

 

[Lyra500]

Because if this was indeed a tumultuous relationship, it could provide a motive for the killing - as none has been mentioned so far in the trial.

ETA: I was not suggesting that those comments were truthful or should be believed. That is why I asked if there was any more information about her and about their relationship - maybe from a more reliable source.

Thanks. I understand where you were coming from in that case. I thought you were possibly giving those comments credence which they do not deserve.

 

[lisasalinger]

It was kind of mumbled and trailing off .. frankly, Roux seemed worn out and ready to call it a day.

ATM I don't really make anything of the "everything is fine" - there are countless interpretations and explanations. For example, if that is what Oscar said - since he was talking to security, he may have meant, that everything is fine and there is no security risk because there's in fact no burglar.

I was just about to start my post with "I understand" and then immediately realized I have Roux syndrome.. :floorlaugh: Ok so let's see how I can phrase this a little better...

Is it possible that Oscar meant there was no security risk? Sure. It's also possible that I am going to marry Leonardo DiCaprio.

Common sense is such an enormous part of trial, and life. We can't live without it and those that do typically don't fare very well.

Honestly put yourself in Oscar's (supposed) shoes... you have just accidentally shot and killed your loved one. You are trying to convince the court that you are screaming and wailing so much that all of the witnesses in the neighborhood think you are a woman. And then within minutes you calmly say "I'm fine" to a security guard who checks on you. Does that make sense at all? He can't have it both ways. He can't be wailing like a woman and he can't "be fine" at the same time.

I do get that you are trying to give OP every change possible, and I respect that. But in your heart of hearts, can you honestly tell us that this is reasonable to you? If your answer is yes, then I will respect that.

 

[minor4th]

Thanks. I understand where you were coming from in that case. I thought you were possibly giving those comments credence which they do not deserve.

Nope

 

[JuneBug67]

Apart from OP's alleged paranoid fear that night , why are we to believe that Reeva felt the same in the loo when OP was shouting for her to call the police and his voice appraoching toward her and that she kept silent while being killed violently? .. It was mentioned in the affi that bedroom door was locked and if Reeva got up and went to the loo passing thru the bathroom from where an intruder would ever come in? From the sky ? All of these nonsense things are too much . We don't know the reason but it's clear as day that OP murdered Reeva in cold blood IMO ...

So trying to fit all those heard woman's screams was in fact OP's own voice , awaikened neighbors, shoulder injuries and switching sides , OP changing affidavits or whatever and 2 fans and pitch darks and fully closed curtains and slides and Reeava's clothes on and hidden 5th phone and forgotten password , Reeva's alleged silence and , yelling 'Help help help' but in fact not calling anyone , everhthing is fine (!) , so many coverups I can't count .. I have never heard so much weird and absurd version of events altogether in a case ..More laughable is the efforts to paint this version to an innocent OP and accident format .. Comeon guys noone is stupid .. Whether you accept it or not golden boy is in fact a tin garbage boy and disgraced himself to the whole world online and a human being in no way can shoot 4 times thru a closed door to another human being otherwise that is murder .Home invasions being common in SA , being vulnerable or paranoid is not an excuse imo.

To me, this is why people end up surprised by verdicts. I wasn't surprised by the Casey Anthony verdict, and I won't be surprised if it is not proven Pistorius knew Reeva was behind that door. Both scenarios are possible, and neither need great leaps to be true. The question is only which the evidence better supports. That is far from clear at this point I think.

 

[Carol70]

There is an odd tone and fervency to some of the support out there. I read this the other day and had to shake my head:
http://supportforoscar.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/oscar-pistorius-portrait-of-a-man-2/

It's like Glamberts for athletes. I find it an odd focus is when somebody has tragically and violently died.

Ahh grief, I managed 2 lines and quit. I will add the pic is good, think it's the first time I've seen a clear picture of his stumps.

 

[minor4th]

I was just about to start my post with "I understand" and then immediately realized I have Roux syndrome.. :floorlaugh: Ok so let's see how I can phrase this a little better...

Is it possible that Oscar meant there was no security risk? Sure. It's also possible that I am going to marry Leonardo DiCaprio.

Common sense is such an enormous part of trial, and life. We can't live without it and those that do typically don't fare very well.

Honestly put yourself in Oscar's (supposed) shoes... you have just accidentally shot and killed your loved one. You are trying to convince the court that you are screaming and wailing so much that all of the witnesses in the neighborhood think you are a woman. And then within minutes you calmly say "I'm fine" to a security guard who checks on you. Does that make sense at all? He can't have it both ways. He can't be wailing like a woman and he can't "be fine" at the same time.

I do get that you are trying to give OP every change possible, and I respect that. But in your heart of hearts, can you honestly tell us that this is reasonable to you? If your answer is yes, then I will respect that.

Well, this is why I say I do not think too much of it one way or the other at the moment - we haven't heard his account, and I'm not sure of the timing of the call in relation to other events.

But in any event - what does it lend to the case either for or against premeditation?

 

[Carol70]

It's interesting the differences in how SA vs. US courts proceed in cases. I am most familiar with the laying of facts prior to testimony to "set the stage" logically.

I'm disappointed that we haven't heard the evidence by the phone companies as to the timing of ALL THE CALLS to set out the timeline FIRST... then follow with testimony of the prosecution witnesses.

Which begs my question - was it ever released anywhere as to calls to 911 US equivalent by her with the bloody phone? And will we hear that the phone was moved after the fact (as in Oscar checking to see if she had indeed called the 911 equivalent behind closed door... therefore his story of him calling out to her to call that number fits with his story...???

Looking forward to such testimony to nail down the timelines vs. having to depend on Roux or others to merely state... as it has appeared MOO that Roux creates purposefully creates confusion imho.

Bring on the testimony by the phone companies with all the records soon please!

I agree, I hope they do, to have concrete evidence as to the time lines will be much easier to piece events together.

 

[lisasalinger]

Going to finally jump in here but thought it best to first say "hello" and that I've been reading these posts from the 1st day. I haven't posted much because by the time I usually catch up, someone else has already pointed out what I was going to say.

Hello :seeya:

 

[minor4th]

To me, this is why people end up surprised by verdicts. I wasn't surprised by the Casey Anthony verdict, and I won't be surprised if it is not proven Pistorius knew Reeva was behind that door. Both scenarios are possible, and neither need great leaps to be true. The question is only which the evidence better supports. That is far from clear at this point I think.

It has not been proven - at best, some alternate possibilities have been discussed, but something being possible (or even probable) is not "beyond a reasonable doubt." You have to completely eliminate Oscar's version as being possible before you approach the requisite burden of proof.

To add to your list, I was not surprised OJ was acquitted because the state did not present their evidence effectively and their primary witnesses were impeached.

 

[soozieqtips]

I think these were posted by trolls and OP supporters. Fairly sick I would say. I doubt there was any real truth there though I do think she was not someone to be pushed about. I feel quite sure she would not let OP ride roughshod over her.

I totally agree. None of these people can possibly have been 'friends' with both OP and Reeva judging by the venom in those posts. Real friends (despite any negative thoughts any of them may have had about Reeva) would never post garbage like that online.