Trial Discussion Thread #3 - 14.03.08-09, Weekend

[Interested Bystander]

The comments are the reason I posted the links, because they paint completely the opposite picture of the nature of their relationship (both media's and Oscar's).

I will copy&paste parts of some of them (please note, most of them are pretty horribly worded, but are, imo, important for the case)

Comments are from here: http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/hougaard-denies-sms-to-reeva-1.1583956#.UxtA2fldVz7



I apologize for such a long post, but I thought you would be interested in this. It certainly seems to show he had lied in his affidavit... about them being ''deeply in love''...

I think these were posted by trolls and OP supporters. Fairly sick I would say. I doubt there was any real truth there though I do think she was not someone to be pushed about. I feel quite sure she would not let OP ride roughshod over her.

 

[JuneBug67]

Forensics indicates that she was standing, facing the door. I think both parties accept that as factual.

She probably felt safe behind the door and would not have believed that OP would do such a thing as shoot her, therefore no need to try to hide within the cubicle. Poor Reeva.

Wasn't aware that this had been effectively stipulated, so if so, thank you. It is also perhaps consistent with quietly standing with her ear close to or pressed against the door trying to hear and figure out what Oscar was shouting about as he approached, if Oscar's story is true.

 

[Estelle]

I'm not sure if I'm hallucinating, but I thought during court conversation with the judge and others in was mentioned that the prosecution's theory was going to be that she was "not sitting on the toilet, she was sitting on the magazine rack." Though that didn't necessarily refer to the moments when the shots were fired I suppose. It may just be intended to be an argument that she never went to the toilet room with intentions of using the toilet. I had theorized last year that she was standing against the door when shot, first in the thigh, then in the head and hand as she collapsed downwards. So that is certainly plausible to me.

I have never heard of her sitting on the magazine rack but maybe that is where she ended up at the end after she had been shot. I had never seen the magazine rack before but recently I saw the photo of the toilet and noticed there was a magazine rack beside the toilet.

 

[minor4th]

I would also like to know more from the people from SA who knew them personally...

Any input would be much appreciated

Before this, I have never even heard of Oscar, much less Reeva, so I have no prior opinion about them (I'm from Croatia and not much into sports), but there are so many people on Twitter who say the same things (like in those comments), and the level of hatred toward Reeva is truly bloodcurdling...

It seems like the majority of them don't even care whether it was deliberate or not, they just want him acquitted, and they are quite open about it too...

To me, that is beyond comprehension... because even if she was all the things they say about here, she certainly didn't deserve to die like that

The comments are shocking and yes the level of hatred seems intense - however, it raises questions for me and I would like to know more about her history and their relationship. Partly for the morbid curiosity, but also because it could provide some context for the events in February 2013

 

[Carol70]

Yes, I agree.

But after reading all that, I am even more reluctant to believe Oscar's version of events....

It seems to me that the most likely scenario would be that they fought, he was provoked by something she said, and in extreme rage, deliberately shot her...

p.s. I apologize once again for copy&paste of the comments, I thought nobody would read them otherwise... I hope that it's not against the rules here

For sure, the comments of other people who appeared to know them are certainly food for thought. They defiantly indicate all was not well in the relationship and possibly answers the question we were all asking last year as to where was Reevas valentine gift from OP. I'm now wondering if the pros will call any of these witnesses of the relationship to refute OPs claims of being in love even to the detriment of Reevas memory. Time will tell I guess.

 

[kittychi]

I think these were posted by trolls and OP supporters. Fairly sick I would say. I doubt there was any real truth there though I do think she was not someone to be pushed about. I feel quite sure she would not let OP ride roughshod over her.

I think many of them, on both boards, were written by the same person, just with different ID's. Some postings have similar syntax, sentence structure, etc.

 

[JuneBug67]

Respectfully, I don't understand why it is clear reasonable doubt for the need to resolve. Those of us who follow trials know well that eye/ear witnesses may be inaccurate, and have to put together what is common to all witnesses to infer with logic.

The doctor was woken up first and heard two sets of noises as perhaps he was closer and heard (it appears) the first set of noises then the second which all the other earwitnesses heard. It does not matter to me that there is an issue with the count as I previously stated. And it doesn't matter which came first, the stick or the gun. Either way, she is heard to be screaming before/during all of it. It is CLEAR to me at this time - yet open to future evidence - that Oscar knew therefore she was behind that door.

To me, it's that simple. Any and all discrepancies to which was first - the stick or the gun, is moot to me. Same with the number of sounds. MOOT.

Again, Either way, she is heard to be screaming before/during all of it. Which leads me to the conclusion that Oscar knew therefore she was behind that door.

And as ShadyLady mentioned, if the shot to the head came first, she would have at least dropped and the other shots to her elbow/hip... well, we'll wait for forensics to show what the angles would had to have been if that was the case... and I cannot at this time even imagine how the defense will put forth that confusion to the judge to explain it away.

We'll see.. but this is my current thinking... open to future evidence and testimony of course.

The problem with this is that has already been testimony that suggests a witness mistook sounds Oscar was making for sounds made by a woman. We know that is what the defense will try to suggest with regard to the screams witnessed. In that event it becomes crucial to prove that the first sounds heard were not the the fatal shots. That has not been done.

 

[Interested Bystander]

It's definitely a great question that should be put to him. But I think it's easy to imagine adrenaline and terror overriding awareness of and concern about pain, too.

Yes, you may be right. I have just extinguished my light bulb

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

I believe those negative comments about Reeva which is very disgusting to make after a dead person speaks for itself.
IMO it possibilly could be from OP's PR team to disgrace Reeva just like suddenly leaking seminaked photos of hers.
Was it on the day of the BH? I don't remember hearing/reading those kind of comments from their friends in common at all..and highly suspect will ever be presented in court with a supported witness.

 

[minor4th]

I believe those negative comments about Reeva which is very disgusting to make after a dead person speaks for itself.
IMO it possibilly could be from OP's PR team to disgrace Reeva just like suddenly leaking seminaked photos of hers.
Was it on the day of the BH? I don't remember hearing/reading those kind of comments from their friends in common at all..and highly suspect will ever be presented in court with a supported witness.

Apparently there is a whole "cult" of Pistorius admirers who were badmouthing Reeva on Twitter. A bunch of nutters it seems - and the Pistorius family came out harshly against them.

The comments on the articles are more interesting because of the issues they raise about turmoil in the relationship, among other things.

 

[jilly]

*snipped respectfully for space*

....If he heard sounds on at least 2 previous occasions located from the bathroom window, a true paranoid would have had burgler bars slotted up there before he ever moved into the house.. I can't believe he lived there for quite some time with no bars inserted in that particular window, considering he regarded himself as security conscious and possibly paranoid.. I believe his 'paranoia' is of a fleeting and convenient matter, trotted out after the fact.. the guns are toys, not for protection.

Going to sleep with the windows open, and the blinds AND 2 fans out on the balcony, KNOWING their is a ladder propped up at this unbarred bathroom window is the habit of a very secure man. No paranoid could for one second close their eyes under these circumstances.. each and every lock, bar, alarm, weapon, curtain , blind, window, each and every possible entry to his house would have been checked, and checked again, and then checked one more time, then after reflection the whole procedure of assurance done again. Then one more time , THEN perhaps sleep........

Just wanted to comment on the window bars.....it may be that owners in that complex are not allowed to put up bars. I know that with any condo or housing complex here, you have a strata council and rules are very strict about not making any changes to the appearance of the exterior of the building.
His security regarding the propped ladder is questionable for sure. Why was it there? You'd think he'd have that removed.

 

[atthelake]

It's interesting the differences in how SA vs. US courts proceed in cases. I am most familiar with the laying of facts prior to testimony to "set the stage" logically.

I'm disappointed that we haven't heard the evidence by the phone companies as to the timing of ALL THE CALLS to set out the timeline FIRST... then follow with testimony of the prosecution witnesses.

Which begs my question - was it ever released anywhere as to calls to 911 US equivalent by her with the bloody phone? And will we hear that the phone was moved after the fact (as in Oscar checking to see if she had indeed called the 911 equivalent behind closed door... therefore his story of him calling out to her to call that number fits with his story...???

Looking forward to such testimony to nail down the timelines vs. having to depend on Roux or others to merely state... as it has appeared MOO that Roux creates purposefully creates confusion imho.

Bring on the testimony by the phone companies with all the records soon please!

 

[JuneBug67]

I believe those negative comments about Reeva which is very disgusting to make after a dead person speaks for itself.
IMO it possibilly could be from OP's PR team to disgrace Reeva just like suddenly leaking seminaked photos of hers.
Was it on the day of the BH? I don't remember hearing/reading those kind of comments from their friends in common at all..and highly suspect will ever be presented in court with a supported witness.

They're so narrow and extreme in both directions it's absurd. Sounds like a bunch of borderline personality disorder cases all gathering in one spot to out-spittle each other.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I have just been reading up on Physio and how to sleep with a painful shoulder. It seems that the normal recommendation is to sleep on your back with a small pillow in the crook of the neck. Another option was to rest the sore arm/shoulder on a small pillow. Either way I cannot see the need to change the side of the bed.

 

[shane13]

I think many of them, on both boards, were written by the same person, just with different ID's. Some postings have similar syntax, sentence structure, etc.

Well said re those disgusting comments about a murdered human being who cannot defend herself!

Which she would do vigorously. Don't forget she was a law school grad who had said that she wanted to be a practising atty within a year or two.

Furthermore--Mods correct me if I am wrong--posting the anonymous coments part of a MSM piece is against the rules here.

If so, it is for good reson. They are often deliberate diatribes by a party with malicious interest to slander someone.

The truth is, if you research this, you will find that OP was the one who had so many incidents of rage and other problems with numerous GFs.

 

[minor4th]

They're so narrow and extreme in both directions it's absurd. Sounds like a bunch of borderline personality disorder cases all gathering in one spot to out-spittle each other.

Exactly!

 

[JuneBug67]

Apparently there is a whole "cult" of Pistorius admirers who were badmouthing Reeva on Twitter. A bunch of nutters it seems - and the Pistorius family came out harshly against them.

The comments on the articles are more interesting because of the issues they raise about turmoil in the relationship, among other things.

There is an odd tone and fervency to some of the support out there. I read this the other day and had to shake my head:
http://supportforoscar.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/oscar-pistorius-portrait-of-a-man-2/

It's like Glamberts for athletes. I find it an odd focus is when somebody has tragically and violently died.

 

[minor4th]

There is an odd tone and fervency to some of the support out there. I read this the other day and had to shake my head:
http://supportforoscar.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/oscar-pistorius-portrait-of-a-man-2/

It's like Glamberts for athletes. I find it an odd focus is when somebody has tragically and violently died.

These are disturbed people

 

[minor4th]

Something we should all keep in mind is that Oscar gave his statement at the bail hearing before having any information about what the state's witnesses would say - also Shipp's statement to police was given before the bail hearing and before any other witnesses had given their accounts and before the media had reported on these events.

For those reasons, Shipp's statement should be given considerable weight IMO and Oscar cannot be said to have tailored his account to explain away witness accounts.

 

[shane13]

Did you catch the irony...?

At the end of Mr Baba's testimony, the translator looked at him and asked "Are you OK?" [or such] She noted that he looked sick apparently.

He said "I'm fine."

Roux then said something like "Mylady, despite Mr Baba saying he is fine, he doesn't seem to be so. So I ask that we adjourn now." [Or words to that effect.]

So the irony is that Mr. Baba played perhaps a significant role in this whole matter by insisting on seeing Oscar because he believed that Oscar was lying when he said everything was fine.

But here appararently he himself [Baba] was really sick and fibbed when he said that he was "fine."

This is an innocent, and perhaps machismo type of lie.

But it is ironic that his saying he was fine when he apprently was not, is what Oscar did--though in far more consequential ways.

Did you catch this irony?