Trial Discussion Thread #3 - 14.03.08-09, Weekend

[Carol70]

Hey Carol:

To your knwledge, which is the biggest talk radio show in South Africa? They now usually also have an internet listening site.

But also which biggest talk radio show allows callers?

I would imagine that would be John Robbie- Talk Radio 702.
I don't listen to the show because I'm in Cape Town and listen to local radio but people always say ' I heard it on John Robbie' Lol, do tell why?

 

[Interested Bystander]

Did anyone catch--with certainty--just where Mr Baba was when the "Everything is Fine" from Oscar conversation took place?

I originally thought Mr Baba was at the main security gate. But now I think he may have been already outside Oscar's house.

What say you?

Shane, I think this has now been answered. He was back at the Gate at 5 to 3 (his words) after checking the site with the patrol guard. After 3am he had a call from the guard who was on patrol that he had heard rifle shots. Baba decided that he needed to go and find out where the shots were coming from. He drove with a guard to OP's house and called OP from the site cellphone.

 

[Lyra500]

I think OP shot Reeva in a fit a rage and tried to put together a story, with the help from his attorney's that fit the evidence. I think OP was "trigger happy" and perhaps a little paranoid. Due to his celebrity status, he felt "above the law" which explains his initial actions (ex. like saying everything is OK), which makes me believe he thought it could all be kept quiet. There are way too many holes in the story for this to be the whole truth. What I'm not sure about is his frame of mind right now. I believe he might be a narcissist which means all the mannerisms of sadness and guilt we see is more about putting on a show. His tears are more about how this effects him. If he's not a narcissist, then perhaps we are seeing genuine remorse.

Hi there. Your post pretty much sums up what i think too, although i am a bit more harsh about his current frame of mind. I fear it is all pure narcissism rather than true remorse. I think the only thing which means anything to Oscar is Oscar.

 

[zqtpie]

Reeva was dressed at 3 am... either she went to bed that way (unlikely on such a hot night) or maybe she had decided to leave after all the arguing. Her overnight bag was right by the bed, perhaps she had just put her clothes on. OP then flies into a rage. Any scenario you think of has the same unfortunate outcome. Control seems to be a big issue for him. So does rage. Probably Reeva wasn't as acquiescent as his younger girlfriends. And OP was not going to put up with that. His defense is ridiculous and unbelievable.

 

[shane13]

I haven't listened to the testimony, but I've followed it by reading the tweets of a reporter in the courtroom. That reporter quoted the witness (Baba) as saying he was at the security gate at 2:55 and was informed by another guard on bike duty that he'd just heard gunshots. Moments later, security received two calls from neighbors regarding gunshots.

(IIRC, Baba said he first drove to the home of one of the callers who then pointed out OP's balcony. However, I'm not 100% certain of my recollection. It could have been a different guard who went to the caller's house.)

But back to what I more firmly remember, according to the reporter, Baba stated he drove to OP's house and called him from outside his house. That's when he claims OP told him everything was fine. O.P. then called him back and was crying.

I believe Roux suggested O.P. called security first, but Baba testified that was not the case, Baba called O.P. first.

As always, all of the above is just my opinion.

Thank you so much Zinn.

Yes I think Baba with one other went to Dr Stipp's and the latter pointed from his balcony.

But we are now in agreement that it seems that Baba called OP from outisde OP's, when OP told him him the great lie, that "everything is fine."

Can you kindly tell me which reporter's tweets this came from?
TIA.

Update:
I will have to re-listen a 3rd time. Your inclusion of shots allegedly heard at 3:55 is very important.
This is part of why I have said in the past few days that I may not agree with both sides' versions in Court! (Nel has proclaimed that 4 shots were fired at 3;17) Also as I have said "this one runs deep..."

 

[Really?]

Thanks.

Are you certain?
When did you listed to testimony?

When I re-listened yesterday, it seemed like he had driven over there after Dr Stipp recommended this.

hmmmm..no , I'm not certain. I will listen again.

 

[Carol70]

I haven't listened to the testimony, but I've followed it by reading the tweets of a reporter in the courtroom. That reporter quoted the witness (Baba) as saying he was at the security gate at 2:55 and was informed by another guard on bike duty that he'd just heard gunshots. Moments later, security received two calls from neighbors regarding gunshots.

(IIRC, Baba said he first drove to the home of one of the callers who then pointed out OP's balcony. However, I'm not 100% certain of my recollection. It could have been a different guard who went to the caller's house.)

But back to what I more firmly remember, according to the reporter, Baba stated he drove to OP's house and called him from outside his house. That's when he claims OP told him everything was fine. O.P. then called him back and was crying.

I believe Roux suggested O.P. called security first, but Baba testified that was not the case, Baba called O.P. first.

As always, all of the above is just my opinion.

You are correct, just gone over it myself, the guard was outside the house when he called OP.

The timing is a compete mess. The guard says he was back at the gate at 2.55 when a few minutes later, the other guard arrived to say he had heard gunshots. The doctor made his first call at 3.15... So this really confirms in my mind what witnesses heard at 3.17 was the bat.

 

[Really?]

As many of us have been discussing, we all bring to this trial our own backgrounds...and some on this thread are verified (iirc defense) attorneys from the United States who like to probe and question and put forth a defense within the threads. WS to some perhaps is sort of a "mini-focus group" - to put forth challenges and suppositions and opinions for feedback.

I'm sorry, I do like to hear other views. I am open to other theories being discussed.

I want to see the phone records.......sms(sp?)......texts and whatnot. That will paint a better picture of the nights progression.

:moo::loveyou:

 

[Cherwell]

How do you know that those people actually know Reeva or OP? How do you know most of them are not huge OP fans just stirring up trouble?

If these people are OP fans, then posting such stuff does him no favours. They have suggested a motive for him. He also comes across as a bit of a ****, tbh.

 

[Really?]

Exactly. There he was 'panicking' and fumbling around on his stumps in the pitch black when he could have just turned on a light or opened the curtain. But of course he couldn't do that because he'd have had no excuse as to why he hadn't seen Reeva. I swear a child could come up with a better story than this. And why would he be scared of turning on the light? He thought the intruder was in the bathroom, not the bedroom.

moo....for future reference.....I would rather be in a pitch black room with an intruder in m y house as I know it well.

He still could/should have whispered something to RS or wake her quietly.:scared:

 

[Cherwell]

I have no idea if they were broken up or any nature of their relationship..I did mention this last year in old threads but I had never heard of her before the shooting, and never seen her in any magazines( and I do follow all SA news channels including the entertainment sections.)She was not on the brink of stardom as suggested and the telly show she was in, was in fact being shown on sabc TV which no one watches anyway. No one I know was going to watch the tropica show, never heard it being promoted anywhere, I don't need to go on.

Certainly I was surprised to hear her described as being "on the brink of stardom". I'd never heard of her, but that's beside the point. Someone likely to hit the top in the world of modelling would have made it long before the ripe old age of 29. And the type of TV programme she was appearing in is usually the preserve of hasbeens and desperate wannabes. People do become "celebrities" off the back of such programmes, but not very respectable ones. If she was really a qualified lawyer, I should have thought it was time for her to pursue that career.

 

[shane13]

I would imagine that would be John Robbie- Talk Radio 702.
I don't listen to the show because I'm in Cape Town and listen to local radio but people always say ' I heard it on John Robbie' Lol, do tell why?

Thanks much, Carol.

Oh, I dunno, I might want to give a shout...you know...help your peeps out...crack the case...

But probably wouldn't even get on, because must be a million people calling in from close by, etc.

Not decided...

 

[Lyra500]

If these people are OP fans, then posting such stuff does him no favours. They have suggested a motive for him. He also comes across as a bit of a ****, tbh.

I think he has already managed to do that without the need for anyone else's help.

 

[jilly]

BBM

I agree that sleeping in a t-shirt and yoga shorts is not unusual, but isn't it interesting how it fits in to his version of events. He states she was doing yoga right before she went to bed.

We could look at it two ways. It's either true that she was, or he added it in there to explain her wearing clothes at 3am.

That's why I'm wondering what was in her overnight bag. If she typically slept in PJs and had them in her bag, why did she not change before bed?

Again, doesn't directly prove intent but just another piece of the story about what they were actually doing at that time of the morning.

I'm not so sure about that. First, the only reference (Dateline) I've see regarding her top was that it was a tank top. The investigator said was found in a black tank top and white shorts. Also, she was wearing a black strapped shirt in which resembled a tank top in the security video when she arrived at Oscar's.

Second? Sleeping in Yoga clothing? I don't think so. I'm sure Reeva would have had trendy yoga clothing like Lululemon which is mostly spandex and who sleeps in that?

 

[Feynman]

excerpted quote:

This is not a girl who was over Oscar. She was trying to smear him back in 2012 and her lawyers had to issue a retraction to the newspaper and told them to disregard what she had said.

2013, not 2012.

 

[Estelle]

I haven't listened to the testimony, but I've followed it by reading the tweets of a reporter in the courtroom. That reporter quoted the witness (Baba) as saying he was at the security gate at 2:55 and was informed by another guard on bike duty that he'd just heard gunshots. Moments later, security received two calls from neighbors regarding gunshots.

(IIRC, Baba said he first drove to the home of one of the callers who then pointed out OP's balcony. However, I'm not 100% certain of my recollection. It could have been a different guard who went to the caller's house.)

But back to what I more firmly remember, according to the reporter, Baba stated he drove to OP's house and called him from outside his house. That's when he claims OP told him everything was fine. O.P. then called him back and was crying.

I believe Roux suggested O.P. called security first, but Baba testified that was not the case, Baba called O.P. first.

As always, all of the above is just my opinion.

I have tried to follow the trial this week but I have had a blackout, an outage and computer problems so I have missed things plus often found it very difficult to hear witnesses.

So I am confused about when the gunshots were heard.

One set about 2.54am and another set at 3.17am. I am surprised about this as I have always thought that the gunshots were fired just before 3am.

Nel interjected that the State’s case was that the shots fired at 3.17am were the shots that caused the Steenkamp’s death and the screams heard before the shots were those of Steenkamp. It was agreed that the wounds she sustained would have stopped her screaming any further.

Roux stated it was common cause that the accused fired four shots, and it was therefore not possible for there to have been two volleys of shots.

Nel stepped in to explain that there appeared to have been two sets of noises which the witness believes were shots.

“We say the deceased was alive and screaming. At 3.17 the four gunshots killed her. We will deal with things if we have discrepancies between our witnesses. But for now we say there was one set of shots and object to Mr Roux saying that she could not have screamed before 3.17am,” Nel said.

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/oscar-trial-focus-reevas-last-moments

So do we assume from this that the State thinks that the noises heard about 2.54am were from the cricket bat and the sounds heard at 3.17am were the gunshots? And the Defence thinks the opposite. I find this very confusing. I hope the ballistics experts are next on the witness stand.

 

[shane13]

I would imagine that would be John Robbie- Talk Radio 702.
I don't listen to the show because I'm in Cape Town and listen to local radio but people always say ' I heard it on John Robbie' Lol, do tell why?

Thanks

1. Do you know when Robbie is on air?
2. Is he bigger than David O'Sullivan (listener # wise)? O'Sullivan does know OP.
3. Is he courteous with callers?
4, Is he intelligent?

TIA.

PS: Turn off the generators

 

[Carol70]

Certainly I was surprised to hear her described as being "on the brink of stardom". I'd never heard of her, but that's beside the point. Someone likely to hit the top in the world of modelling would have made it long before the ripe old age of 29. And the type of TV programme she was appearing in is usually the preserve of hasbeens and desperate wannabes. People do become "celebrities" off the back of such programmes, but not very respectable ones. If she was really a qualified lawyer, I should have thought it was time for her to pursue that career.

Sadly, I think I recall she wasn't a fully fledged lawyer yet, she still had to write her articles. Cherwell, are you also South African??

 

[Zinn]

Thank you so much Zinn.

Yes I think Baba with one other went to Dr Stipp's and the latter pointed from his balcony.

But we are now in agreement that it seems that Baba called OP from outisde OP's, when OP told him him the great lie, that "everything is fine."

Can you kindly tell me which reporter's tweets this came from?
TIA.

Update:
I will have to re-listen a 3rd time. Your inclusion of shots allegedly heard at 3:55 is very important.
This is part of why I have said in the past few days that I may not agree with both sides' versions in Court! (Nel has proclaimed that 4 shots were fired at 3;17) Also as I have said "this one runs deep..."

I looked back through multiple courtroom reporters feeds and it seems witness Baba said he was at the gate at 2:55, then the guard on a bike reported he'd just heard shots "just after 3:00am" but it is not more specific than that. The witness Burger also stated she was awakened by screams just after 3:00am and witness Van der Merwe reported being awakened at 1:56am by loud talking that lasted roughly one hour before she heard shots. I think the most specific time that's been mentioned was when Roux noted an incoming call from Stipp to security at 3:15am. However, Stipp made more than one call, so I don't know if that was his first call.

Not sure if I'm allowed to post a specific reporter's Twitter handle in the forum, so I will DM you instead. I hope that's okay.

As always, all of the above is just my opinion.

 

[wishIknewmore]

I know we went round and round in the beginning about this but do we know for sure how many shots were fired?

According to http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/04/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial/index.html

Prosecutor Gerrie Nel, reading a report from an expert, told the court that of the four bullets that were fired toward Steenkamp: "The fourth bullet hit her in the head. She then died."

I ask this because I think that Roux is setting up a different defense that what we see right now. I'm not familiar with the courts in SA but this guy isn't an idiot. OP could hire the best of the best so all this bumbling around make me think that Roux is setting the groundwork for something else. Perhaps this whole theory around the bat is just a ruse or a diversion? Bear with me, I like to always think both sides through in any situation…

Perhaps Roux has intentionally locked witnesses into their story while all the time knowing it doesn't match up with the evidence. He's getting witnesses to focus on the 3 sounds and being adamant its not a bat but gunshots? If there were 4 shots, then doesn't this discount Stipp's testimony of 2 sets of 3 shots as in "bam, bam, bam"? Doesn't matter how far apart, one of them should have included 4 shots. Roux can then go on to say if Stipp was mistaken here, whats to say that the rest of his testimony is off as well?

If people don't buy that maybe he might even come back to say that the 1st shot woke Stipp up and then he heard the 2nd, 3rd and 4th shot? He then brings us back around to the stupid bat story for the last 3 noises. Now it all fits in a nice package since parts of Stipps testimony in question.

I think Roux is going to bring in experts that show that a man's voice will increase an octave when under duress. I think he will say the 1st screams heard that sounded like a woman's voice was OP yelling at Reeva or perhaps he was yelling at the burglars warning them to get out. He was in fear for his life so his voice was under duress and high pitched. The man's voice heard was him regaining his composer and yelling at the burglars before or during firing. This shows OP wasn't just in a wild state of panic. Anyway, the shots are fired and now OP starts really screaming like a girl in this wailing voce because he knows he just shot Reeva. He regains his composure in order to "save" Reeva so now he yells in his manly voice "Help! Help! Help" while rushing back to beat the door down with the bat. Now OP might be doing more of a primal scream ("argggghhhh") while he beating down the door. He stops with the last hit because he found the key. (Kind of like you would when you are doing self defense classes and you make these weird sounds when you are hitting the padded dude with the plastic bat? Ok, maybe girls only do that but you get the picture I might have the timeline wrong but you get the picture. Wouldn't this make Johnson and Burgers testimony fit with OP's? It sets a different stage once Stipp's out of the way.

Now I don't buy this rubbish for a second and realize there are holes in this version as well. I just think Roux hasn't shown his hand yet.