Trial Discussion Thread #31

[patCee]

I sort of hate to belabor this but wasn't there a policeman who was a friend of OP's family on the scene?

I agree secreting OP's phone out of there is far more important.

Yes an officer (high up) and it was suggested on here that he may have been known OP's aunt who was head of the 'criminal profile dept' at one time. I think they both worked in the same dept. I think he whisked OP off to the medical centre. Cape Town Crim's opinion is that he is a man of integrity. IIRC

 

[lithgow1]

I'm going to wait until I see what the defense presents about that, but I've already seen two photos myself that were different.

<modsnip>

I wouldn't be surprised if they laid out the duvet on the floor to get a picture of the blood stains on it, and moved the fan so they had a big enough space to lay it out.

Yes there was some very sloppy police work done, that's for sure, but I don't buy the laying it on the floor theory at all. If true, it was a one in a million bit of bad luck for OP that the corner matched up with the blood splatter on the carpet. Guess that's why he was so tongue-tied and confused and teary about it all, rather than because it exposed him as lying.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Do you get a chance to follow my posts C? Anyway for you, this was Brig Gen Gerard Labuschagne,PhD.
I deduced that he's friend with Micki P, Op's aunt.

high ranker that labuschage, on the scene in the early hours - who got him out of bed?

along with oldwage, the friendly attny
carl, the brother
aimee, the sister

stander, the friendly site boss
clarice, the friendly daughter/doorperson.


it was a busy crime scene, full of friendly faces.

 

[Lyra500]

OP has claimed that police moved things around in order to frame him or something to that affect. What I can't figure out is how did the police know what to move around? OP didn't give them a statement, he didn't tell them his version, so how were they able to move all of those things around that messes up OP's version?
The duvet, jeans, fans, cords, curtains, etc all show that OP is not telling the truth so he blames it on police contamination. So does the police have a mind reader working for them? Or does it make more sense that OP is once again lying not only about his version but also about the police moving things around before the first set of pictures were taken?

Precisely. His whole claim and premise is a load of bobbins and pure water muddying to try and distract attention from just how guilty he is.:moo:

There is absolutely no way that the police could have disturbed the crime scene in precisely the right way to disprove his affidavit and later versions of events when they could not possibly have known what those accounts would contain.

 

[sleuth-d-]

I did see that portion of the testimony. I wasn't convinced.

I'd like to look under that duvet, please.

sorry, i can't help with looking under the duvet.

 

[TorisMom003]

Van Rensburg said that the photo of the bedroom (shown in court, the one that OP claims has things moved in it) is as it was when he first entered the room. The balcony door was open. Box of watches, lid open with about 8 watches.

Now off to listen to more of his testimony.

 

[molly333]

high ranker that labuschage, on the scene in the early hours - who got him out of bed?

along with oldwage, the friendly attny
carl, the brother
aimee, the sister

stander, the friendly site boss
clarice, the friendly daughter/doorperson.


it was a busy crime scene, full of friendly faces.

Why are all these people called 'general, 'colonel'...

Are they in the military?

 

[steveml]

I'd be interested in the thoughts of those who believe OP's 'version' as to what they make of the photo evidence of the bedroon on the morning of the shooting. Back when I was just reading here and the photo evidence was introduced someone made a very good photos timeline. They marked with an asterix those taken after police moving of items may have made the images unreliable. However, the bedroom photos were taken approx 30 minutes before that time so they were, presumably, reliable.

So, for the sake of debate, taking it that those first photos are an accurate representation of the bedroom that morning, how do you account for the positioning of the fan, duvet, blood splatter etc in terms of OP's story? To my eyes they prove that OP is lying about at least one major part of his testimony.

If we accept that the crime scene photos were submitted correctly it is difficult to dispute. Due to the nature of SAPS not knowing how the state would pursue the case I struggle with suggestion that they would have intentionally moved evidence.

What is not beyond all reasonable doubt is that things may have been moved carelessly. I expect that the photographs and alleged moved evidence will be examined in more detail by one of the DT's expert witnesses.

 

[BritsKate]

I posted this a few days ago.

But maybe some now did not see it?



Gunshot 1000 times louder than bat strike, says forensics consultant

Something I've said here for a long time in different terms (such as gunshot incorporating sonic booms, etc}



He says "sound made by pistol shot is effectively 1000 times louder than a bat on door."At circa 2:00 minute mark, but entire interview is revealing.



Oscar Pistorius Trial: eNCA interviews David Klatzow on Oscar trial proceedings - YouTube

And as such, it would stand to reason that more people, in different areas, may hear a gunshot as opposed to something like...oh, say a cricket bat, just for the heck of it.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[molly333]

Van Rensburg said that the photo of the bedroom (shown in court, the one that OP claims has things moved in it) is as it was when he first entered the room. The balcony door was open. Box of watches, lid open with about 8 watches.

Now off to listen to more of his testimony.

It had exactly 8 watches. He knew how many watches were there.

And then there were 6...

It's under police investigation now. Good luck with that.

 

[shane13]

high ranker that labuschage, on the scene in the early hours - who got him out of bed?

along with oldwage, the friendly attny
carl, the brother
aimee, the sister

stander, the friendly site boss
clarice, the friendly daughter/doorperson.


it was a busy crime scene, full of friendly faces.

You left out who may be the highest ranker of them all, uncle Arnold...

 

[TorisMom003]

It had exactly 8 watches. He knew how many watches were there.

And then there were 6...

It's under police investigation now. Good luck with that.

I am currently listening to his testimony. In it he does not say that there were exactly 8 watches in it, at least not yet. Now further on he may say that. However, I did ask where or what part of his testimony the claims that have been attributed to him where made and got no response. My guess for the reason for that is because the information came from a media story instead of actually listening to his actual testimony.

 

[molly333]

You left out who may be the highest ranker of them all, uncle Arnold...

Is he in the military? lol

There seem to be different groups of people operating here.

 

[james83]

If we accept that the crime scene photos were submitted correctly it is difficult to dispute. Due to the nature of SAPS not knowing how the state would pursue the case I struggle with suggestion that they would have intentionally moved evidence.

What is not beyond all reasonable doubt is that things may have been moved carelessly. I expect that the photographs and alleged moved evidence will be examined in more detail by one of the DT's expert witnesses.

Still wont change the fact that the first set of photos were of the untouched scene.

 

[molly333]

I am currently listening to his testimony. In it he does not say that there were exactly 8 watches in it, at least not yet. Now further on he may say that. However, I did ask where or what part of his testimony the claims that have been attributed to him where made and got no response. My guess for the reason for that is because the information came from a media story instead of actually listening to his actual testimony.

Just keep listening. There's a picture of the stolen watches. They were photographed before they were 1) given to Aimee and 2) stolen.

He knows exactly which watch was stolen and which one was given to Aimee and he can point to them in a picture.

They also had blood on them--part of a crime scene.

 

[Viper]

yes. i agree.
especially if the fact that said phone arrived back with no information on it - as has been suggested here - is true.

i mean, [a] why take a phone from the scene that contained no info, or if you are going to take a phone from a scene, how 'obvious/ridiculous' to return it totally wiped

BIB. The phone did contain information. OP refused to give the police his WhatApp password. Apple and the police (separately) ran three programs to recover deleted data and they were successful.

Just because what we have seen of the data does not include a message that says, "Im going to shoot you the next time I see you," does not mean that OP wanted the police to see the messages that were used by Nel to show discourse and fear by Reeva in the the relationship and showed OP admitting to the Tasha's incident.

 

[lithgow1]

If we accept that the crime scene photos were submitted correctly it is difficult to dispute. Due to the nature of SAPS not knowing how the state would pursue the case I struggle with suggestion that they would have intentionally moved evidence.

What is not beyond all reasonable doubt is that things may have been moved carelessly. I expect that the photographs and alleged moved evidence will be examined in more detail by one of the DT's expert witnesses.

Yes it will be interesting to see the defence there. If at the end of it all those photos stand then I can't see how OP can't fall. Do any of the legal professionals that come here know how big an impact being caught in a lie such as this would play when a judge is evaluating overall testimony?

 

[TorisMom003]

Just keep listening. There's a picture of the stolen watches. They were photographed before they were 1) given to Aimee and 2) stolen.

He knows exactly which watch was stolen and which one was given to Aimee and he can point to them in a picture.

They also had blood on them--part of a crime scene.

I have seen the close up photo, still haven't heard him say that he KNEW there were 8 watches. Also still have not heard him say that the security guards in that estate would break into the homes and steal things. Sure that second one is in his testimony?

 

[steveml]

The duvet's position needs some careful consideration.

As you can see from the attached picture, the duvet is quite flat and is quite some distance away from the bed. Pull a duvet off a bed aggressively and it doesn't land like this. Get out of bed by pulling the duvet swiftly to one side, again it doesn't land like this. Kick a duvet off the end of the bed, again it doesn't land like this.

In the photograph the duvet is not in a natural position at all, it is too wide and square to have just landed there. You can try this simple experiment for yourselves at home.


Link

 

[molly333]

The duvet's position needs some careful consideration.

As you can see from the attached picture, the duvet is quite flat and is quite some distance away from the bed. Pull a duvet off a bed aggressively and it doesn't land like this. Get out of bed by pulling the duvet swiftly to one side, again it doesn't land like this. Kick a duvet off the end of the bed, again it doesn't land like this.

In the photograph the duvet is not in a natural position at all, it is too wide and square to have just landed there. You can try this simple experiment for yourselves at home.


Link

Yep. <modsnip>

I have 5 cyberbucks on the table that says just that.