Trial Discussion Thread #31

[Emz73]

BIB. The phone did contain information. OP refused to give the police his WhatApp password. Apple and the police (separately) ran three programs to recover deleted data and they were successful.

Just because what we have seen of the data does not include a message that says, "Im going to shoot you the next time I see you," does not mean that OP wanted the police to see the messages that were used by Nel to show discourse and fear by Reeva in the the relationship and showed OP admitting to the Tasha's incident.

So the phone he didn't know the password to, had all the messages deleted? Those messages are the ones Nel read out?

 

[TorisMom003]

Yep. <modsnip>

I have 5 cyberbucks on the table that says just that.

Incorrect according to Van Rensburg

 

[DebinGA]

It is astonishing that so much attention might be put towards investigating a missing watch when the removal of vital evidence ie phone from a crime scene seems to be being ignored .

OP's watch theft police report was the only verifiable indication that OP had ever been a victim of any crime whatsoever iirc.

 

[steveml]

Still wont change the fact that the first set of photos were of the untouched scene.

The key word there is fact. If they are proven to not have been correctly submitted (and Roux did mention that some were submitted without any indication of before/after movement of the crime scene) then what was established as fact will be no more.

At present we don't know if the time-stamp of all the photographs have been established to be correct by the DT, and they still have a number of witnesses to call.

With this in mind, it's probably a bit premature to regard this selection of state evidence as fact.

 

[shane13]

I want to thank those of you who are now taking up the mantle!

It&#8217;s been a frustrating year since I&#8217; first tried to alert the world&#8212;here and elsewhere&#8212;of the importance of the crime scene removal of the 5th phone. i have possibly put myself at risk with doing this...

I&#8217;ve variously endured being ignored, scorned or having general platitudes bandied about.
So it is heartwarming to read some of you stating how important that is and realizing the implications. But please no one put words in my mouth. I never said its data was wiped clean, only that it is highly likely its data has been altered.

Otherwise why would OP&#8217;s DT hold on to it for16 days?
And again please do not lose sight of my harping also on how the first few minutes of March 25 Session 1 have been excised from all youtubes. It begins with the witness in mid-sentence and has removed Nel and Roux &#8220;stipulating&#8221; about the16 days&#8212;with judge going along.

Standard jurisprudence for hundreds of years would have made it inadmissible as it has zero chain of custody.

Any conversations and timelines used in trial should not be considered. My piece on the &#8220;Logic of the removal of the 5th phone&#8221; details why it had to be taken.

I trust you have all read that?? Or I can repost.

Again my heartfelt thanks to those of you who now appreciate the importance of the crime scene removal of the fifth phone and the possible implications and consequences.

 

[BritsKate]

Why are all these people called 'general, 'colonel'...



Are they in the military?

Police officers have different titles in other parts of the world. Some places correspond them to military ranking while others, such as the UK, deliberately do not.

Here there's: constables, inspectors, sergeants, police community support officers, et al. and very often an officer will have a particular title like detective chief inspector, which is the minimum rank held by a senior investigator, usually abbreviated to DCI.

The overwhelming majority of our police force also don't carry firearms, many police community support officers are volunteers, cops are sometimes called bobbies, and being arrested is getting nicked.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[crasshopper]

Do you get a chance to follow my posts C? Anyway for you, this was Brig Gen Gerard Labuschagne,PhD.
I deduced that he's friend with Micki P, Op's aunt.

I do and enjoy them immensely and thank you for that!

 

[steveml]

Yep. <modsnip>

I have 5 cyberbucks on the table that says just that.

I'll fold, you can keep your cyber-bucks as it also looks very possible to me.

If not, it certainly doesn't look like it's been in the middle of any kind of struggle or panic.

 

[molly333]

<MODSNIP>




Nel: I refer to the photograph with the watches, photo 167.

by Sky News court reporter March 14 at 3:55 AM



Nel: You saw it, when you entered the scene that morning?

by Sky News court reporter March 14 at 3:55 AM



VR: That is correct, my lady. On there other side, there is also watches. 8 In total.

by Sky News court reporter March 14 at 3:55 AM





Nel: Do you know what happened to the watches?



VR: My lady, upon arrival I saw these watches. I said to myself, that this attempting to any person as they were expensive.

by Sky News court reporter March 14 at 3:56 AM



VR: With the proceeding to the upper level with the photographer. I told him to take pictures of these watches.


http://news.sky.com/story/1225788/oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-day-10-transcripts

 

[Viper]

So the phone he didn't know the password to, had all the messages deleted? Those messages are the ones Nel read out?

TBH I don't remember which phone, OPs or Reeva's, had which messages. I remember that additional messages were recovered from OPs phone, but not specifically which ones.

Suffices to say that OP did not want the police to know of the existence of his personal phone for whatever privacy issues, so he had it taken by a trusted person. That is reason enough for me. Like I said it didn't necessarily have to have a murder or coverup story on it, it just had to have things on it that OP did not want the police to see. Simple things to many but big to OP and Nel.

 

[james83]

The key word there is fact. If they are proven to not have been correctly submitted (and Roux did mention that some were submitted without any indication of before/after movement of the crime scene) then what was established as fact will be no more.

At present we don't know if the time-stamp of all the photographs have been established to be correct by the DT, and they still have a number of witnesses to call.

With this in mind, it's probably a bit premature to regard this selection of state evidence as fact.

I promise you they are of the untouched scene and they expose the liar.

 

[shane13]

I do and enjoy them immensely and thank you for that!

BBM

Well since you put it that way, I will help you with your Mom.

Find online [say google image] the PC6 acupuncture point.
it is the point for the vagus nerve, and can possibly immediately correct a vasovagal attack by tapping it [or needling it if you've got those handy.]

Anyway tapping works,.a random tap/beat may be Ok or a waltz beat is even better. (Hard-soft-soft.)

Let me know. And if it helps get your mom to send me some type of message.

And learn some alternative medicine if you have not already.

 

[Emz73]

TBH I don't remember which phone, OPs or Reeva's, had which messages. I remember that additional messages were recovered from OPs phone, but not specifically which ones.

Suffices to say that OP did not want the police to know of the existence of his personal phone for whatever privacy issues, so he had it taken by a trusted person. That is reason enough for me. Like I said it didn't necessarily have to have a murder or coverup story on it, it just had to have things on it that OP did not want the police to see. Simple things to many but big to OP and Nel.

Maybe as simple as he was messaging other women? Who would want to admit to having an affair with a suspected murderer? So we've never found out.

 

[yozzdi]

At this point it looks to me that neither side has proved its theory beyond a reasonable doubt. Let's assume that the judge agrees with me. My question is what are the SA laws in this regard.
For example, if the judge rules as above, and then moves to the next question, whether OP was justified in shooting at the presumed intruder. If the judge decides that he was not justified to shoot at an intruder, what is the crime committed? Is that murder or culpable homicide? Also, if it is culpable homicide (as above), what would likely jail time be?

 

[steveml]

I promise you they are of the untouched scene and they expose the liar.

You could promise me that everything in the bedroom was untouched, yet we know this not to be true.

You could promise me that the evidence was gathered correctly, yet we know this not to be true.

You could promise me that SAPS Sgt. Ntome Sebetha didn't make his statement from hearsay evidence, yet we know this not to be true.

I think I'll reserve my judgement on this for a while.

 

[james83]

You could promise me that everything in the bedroom was untouched, yet we know this not to be true.

You could promise me that the evidence was gathered correctly, yet we know this not to be true.

You could promise me that SAPS Sgt. Ntome Sebetha didn't make his statement from hearsay evidence, yet we know this not to be true.

I think I'll reserve my judgement on this for a while.

Untouched for the first set of photo's, that's all i'm saying.

 

[sleuth-d-]

I'll fold, you can keep your cyber-bucks as it also looks very possible to me.

If not, it certainly doesn't look like it's been in the middle of any kind of struggle or panic.

just wondering... how does a duvet look, when it has been part of a struggle or panic?

 

[patCee]

Yes, Vermuelan demonstrated that the end of the cricket bat fitted the crack in the door. Also that, in his view, the bat had then been inserted into the crack to prise the panel out. So not necessarily making a loud noise. He thought this and another crack had been caused by hitting the door with the bat. There is a question by some on here about when the door was hit with the bat in the context of the bangs witnesses heard. Hitting the door and prising open the panel may not have been done at the same time.

Just thought I better make it clear that the bolded part is my comment, not Vermuelans.

 

[james83]

It maddens me that anyone would think of a watch or any material possession whatsoever, when someone's daughter was lying dead on the floor. Bloody stone cold, heartless lot IMO.

And don't forget this

Stipp recalled how a man, known as Mr Stander, helped Pistorius after the shooting.

The man’s wife and daughter also arrived at the house.

The doctor said he could not remember the specifics of their conversation, but recalled Mrs Stander was worried about the media finding out about the shooting.

 

[Ncl1968]

The 5th phone...
The whatsapp stuff (data)would have been on a server and the police can go directly to the owner
pics and text messages would have been removed by team op perhaps a phone call was made on it that he wanted nobody to see