Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[minor4th]

watching the Tuesday proceedings and struck by these defense witnesses who seem to be "lying" on the stand. It almost seems like they have all been promised something by the defense or more probably OP himself (since he is out and free to do anything) . Now one says Reeva was introduced as fiance???? Even OP himself did not go that far. I sure hope the judge is seeing this amazing parade of OP supporters on the heels of a very long break.

Whoa. Who do you think was lying and about what exactly? I didn't get the impression that any of them were lying or even exaggerating - why would they?

 

[minor4th]

So I guess the same goes for the journalist who also heard it? Yet again they are all lining up to tell lies about Pistorius.

^^^ See above multiple responses to similar questions.

 

[TorisMom003]

Didn't Ms. Stander testify that the front door was cracked open when she and her father arrived at OP's house? If so, how did OP plan on getting Reeva out the front door then? OP testified "I could barely pick Reeva up, I wouldn't have been able to open the doors and carry her so I opened my bedroom door, um, and I opened the front door." So does this mean that OP was not really intending to take Reeva to the hospital at all but instead cracked open the front door so that the Stander's could enter the house without him having to let them in?

 

[crasshopper]

Yes, and I wonder whose DNA would be on the mugs on both the left and right hand sides of the bed??

...or fingerprints?


way, way, way behind on thread

 

[thewagesofsin]

Indeed.

The watch I would tend to doubt was given to OP to ahve whilein jailasit ws said to be quite expensive.

And yes it is one (strange) thing for the top cop to allow the sister --intothe bedroom (a crime scene) minutes sfter the shooting to take her own brother's watch and clothing.

But it is a totally different thing to allow the suspect's sister to take the victim's bag with contents that could not be viewed, from the crime scene.

If he wasn't famous and well off I suspect he'd have a knee in his back while being handcuffed before being taken from the scene directly to the local jail. Oh the wonders of having money.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Thanks and is that taped?
Or do you have to listen live?

Very often parts of the previous day court is repeated but it is generally a live discussion program of that day's proceedings plus various other pertinent interviews and a question (via SMS, email etc) and answer session for listeners. If there is time the previous evening's legal round table is replayed, as today.

 

[lithgow1]

^^^ See above multiple responses to similar questions.

The most telling part of this reply is your post # 802 that appears immediately above it.

 

[minor4th]

Mrs. N? To be clear, she said she heard a bang and couldn't compare it to anything but a bang. But we can go with gunshots if you'd like since that's what Nel stated the bang was too.

Mrs. M. heard no bangs or shots or bat strikes.

Quote:
His wife, Eontle Nhlengethwa, said she heard a loud bang, which woke her up. State prosecutor Gerrie Nel suggested this bang was from the second set of sounds – described by some earlier witnesses as gunshots, but which the defence says were the thumps of the cricket bat breaking down the toilet door – and thus after Steenkamp had been shot. Motshuane did not hear any shots.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/06/oscar-pistorius-trial-murder-reeva-steenkamp-6-may

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

Well of course Nel wanted to suggest that but it's really not possible that it was the second sounds (cricket bat) that Mrs N heard (and yes, I mistakenly called her Mrs M :blushing.

To suggest that second bangs woke her up, after which she heard "help, help, help" - Nel has to discredit his own witnesses who heard the help, help, help before the second bangshots - to wit, Mr Johnson, Mrs Burger, and Mrs Stipp, who all heard the "help, help, help" before the second bangshots;

It also undermines Dr Stipp's testimony because he said that the last bangshots happened just as he concluded his phone call with security - which was at 3:17. Mr N called security before 3:17 and his wife had already heard one shot and the "help, help, help"

 

[minor4th]

The most telling part of this reply is your post # 802 that appears immediately above it.

How so? We were talking about today's witnesses and I didn't think they were lying, nor have I seen anyone else say they believe they were lying. Lying about what?

 

[steveml]

I just wanted to give some readers something that they could get dramatically offended with. :wink:

I'm past Aimee's privacy, and I don't believe that she gives a flip about Reeva or Reeva's family. Aimee entered the crime scene and took Reeva's purse, and likely with that OPs personal cell phone that he used that night. Other things could have been in Reeva's purse too, but now we will never know, thanks to Aimee.

BBM

I shan't be thanking that post. It's family ridicule based on nothing more than speculation.

 

[lithgow1]

How so? We were talking about today's witnesses and I didn't think they were lying, nor have I seen anyone else say they believe they were lying. Lying about what?

You question someone's claim that today's witnesses may have been less than honest and then turn around and say you don't trust the witnesses to Pistorius' alleged comment to Kim Myers. I don't believe that today's witnesses were lying nor those who reported the post-proceedings exchange. You choose to defend one and denigrate the other. So I'd ask your question: why would they (journo, Ms Myers) be lying? If it's because she was Reeva's friend, well some of the defence witnesses been OP's.

 

[sicknote]

Mrs. N heard one of the gunshots

Does that mean the gunshots were definately after the cricket bat then?

 

[soozieqtips]

BBM

I shan't be thanking that post. It's family ridicule based on nothing more than speculation.

So do you think it was acceptable behaviour for a family member of the accused to remove possessions which belonged to the deceased away from the crime scene?

 

[Mr Fossil]

Well of course Nel wanted to suggest that but it's really not possible that it was the second sounds (cricket bat) that Mrs N heard (and yes, I mistakenly called her Mrs M :blushing.

To suggest that second bangs woke her up, after which she heard "help, help, help" - Nel has to discredit his own witnesses who heard the help, help, help before the second bangshots - to wit, Mr Johnson, Mrs Burger, and Mrs Stipp, who all heard the "help, help, help" before the second bangshots;

It also undermines Dr Stipp's testimony because he said that the last bangshots happened just as he concluded his phone call with security - which was at 3:17. Mr N called security before 3:17 and his wife had already heard one shot and the "help, help, help"

BIB Not sure this is correct. I think Dr Stipp first tried to call Silverwoods security but got no answer. He then tried 10111 (SA National Emergency) but couldn't get through. Both Mr and Mrs Stipp then hear three more loud bangs at 03:17 on clock radio (less 3/4 mins). Dr Stipp then calls security (Baba) at 03:15:51 (16 seconds) after which he hears a man shouting help three times. Nthlengethwa's call was after this, at 03:16:36 (44 seconds). He tried at 3:16:13 and couldn't get through.

 

[Cherwell]

OP needs a keeper ... for the rest of his life. If he's ever found in possession of a gun again, I hope they lock him up and throw away the key. I hope m'lady does just that soon, but I doubt his sentence will be longer than 10 yrs., and he's a young man. Lots of time to maim or kill innocent others.

I couldn't agree more. He is a very dangerous individual, and if he gets away with this it will only increase his sense of entitlement. They will ban him from keeping guns, but I can't see him respecting that. Look how he refused to accept any of his bail conditions - he got them all withdrawn (wrongly IMO) and he would expect the same treatment again.

 

[crasshopper]

With all due respect, I'm aware of OP's privileged life and home AND I find it believable that he still felt paranoid...witness his past behavior fearing intruders at his gated home.

sbm

Well, as several have posted earlier, why would OP think it was safe enoughfor his girlfriend to stay in his house, alone, a weekhere or there to watch his dogs.

Why not have Stander or another resident,aware of the 'incidents' in their gated community, do it?

Did he provide Reeva with a gun for protection or train her in commando mode?

I am not being facetious.

 

[Cherwell]

Mr Mike N’s Interactions, and Delay, RE Interviews with SAPS and use of Shane’s Logic ©

This is conjecture, and cannot be proven. It is speculation, but it may explain some “strangeness” that needs explaining.

We heard today Mike N’s testimony that the first 2 sets of cops who tried to get his statement about what happeneed were dismissed by him.

The first one allegedly he did not like because the cop said something like, “help me ouit here brother.’ [or words to that effect.]

The 2nd set was 2 female cops, who he did not want to talk to either. No appt or such, no showing of ID, Mike stated.

Sorry this sounds a bit specious to me.
E,g., if either set of cops did not immediately show a badge, this could have quickly been remedied.

What I am getting at here is that his objections could have been immediately rendered meaningless by simple actions from those first 2 sets of cops.

But what happened is that these “no thank yous" bought TIME, how many days?

DT could have, within a few days, have formulated their strategies, after getting some info at BH, what they needed to counter PT’s earwitnesses with, etc.

Could this logic be why Mr N would not give a statement to cops until how many days passed?

Again this is just speculation and logic to try to explain some more “strangeness”, because as you now this one runs deep. ©Shane 13

I agree that MN's reasons for dismissing the police seem rather spurious. Fair enough, it was wise to be cautious of the media sniffing around, but the credentials of these police officers could have been established on the spot. MN's attitude and actions strike me as being obstructive, and I'm surprised they let him get away with such behaviour.

 

[Lyra500]

I couldn't agree more. He is a very dangerous individual, and if he gets away with this it will only increase his sense of entitlement. They will ban him from keeping guns, but I can't see him respecting that. Look how he refused to accept any of his bail conditions - he got them all withdrawn (wrongly IMO) and he would expect the same treatment again.

I agree.

The fact that he is wiling to try and menace Reeva's friend actually in court and then try to deny it despite several witnesses is just another example of his overweening sense of superiority and entitlement.

Frankly, he should be locked away until he has learnt some humility - until then I think he will remain a danger. Also, as you say, since he does not appear to accept that the laws of the land apply to him, how could he be relied upon to not try and get hold of firearms again, even if he was banned from owning them?

 

[steveml]

watching the Tuesday proceedings and struck by these defense witnesses who seem to be "lying" on the stand. It almost seems like they have all been promised something by the defense or more probably OP himself (since he is out and free to do anything) . Now one says Reeva was introduced as fiance???? Even OP himself did not go that far. I sure hope the judge is seeing this amazing parade of OP supporters on the heels of a very long break.

So the witness said 'fiancee' and should have said 'girlfriend'.

I can't see the importance of this, unless I'm missing something.

 

[Murphys_Law]

I would like to know why free-range Clarice was permitted to wander into the spare room (whose location and contents are part of the crime scene Exhibit TT from Album 9) unescorted -- that's right all alone, while Amy was picking dress attire under watchful police eyes.