Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[katydid23]

if you are assuming that the alarm was on, why do you think he switched it off when going downstairs to open the front door?

IIRC, he did in fact testify that he turned off the alarm before he went downstairs to open the door. So I have to wonder why he turned off the alarm. Wouldnt he want to sound an alarm to call for help?

That testimony also makes me wonder why he didnt use the panic button in the 1st place. He testified he turned off the alarm before going downstairs. So that means he thinks it is working.

So why didn't he use it at 2:58 am when he first heard scary noises?

 

[Paysee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=onX7NJguuHc

Dwayne Fernandes walking and running on his stumps. He comments on a posters question about OP not being able to balance on his stumps. He says its unlikely he cant balance.

This guy says he has the same amputation as OP.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, in the dark. Now just for one minute imagine that you are Reeva and you are in the bathroom. Suddenly you hear OP crashing down the hallway screaming " get the f out!!!". Really, is your response going to be to come barging out the door to a raging OP? Or to yell to him at all? Either she thought OP was yelling at an intruder somewhere nearby or she thought he had gone truly nuts. Either way her silence is completely rational IMO.

But if she thought there was an intruder, why didn't she call cops or security or Frank?

 

[BritsKate]

In fairness to OP. If he did believe an intruder had entered his bathroom, it's not as if he can call a 'time out' to put his prostheses on. I think going for the gun would be a reasonable thing to do.

Not checking on Reeva however...

My husband is nearly totally immobile - so it's easy for me to envision Oscar having limited mobility (though I think how limited is arguable). The thing I can't get past isn't him not putting his legs on to confront the intruder - it's not ensuring the person who was able-bodied escaped the situation to get help as quickly as possible. That's how I would expect anyone lacking mobility to act - because their immobility is a way of life, it becomes second nature, instinct almost, to rely more heavily on the person who is able-bodied. So, it isn't just not checking on Reeva that bothers me, but also that he didn't rely on her despite his vulnerability and limited mobility which flies in the face of everything I've experienced living with someone disabled.

 

[Val1]

I think OP is definitely paranoid in the sense of "seeing enemies everywhere". The Brazilian racer who beat him is a cheater. The Stipps are liars. Ditto ST, DF, and the young lady whose leg he injured in anger. He confronted Ms. Myers yesterday because she was one of his many enemies, like MB, Mr. VdB, and the unknown driver he thought was following him, who OP felt compelled to confront.

bbm Hmm, colour me paranoid too then, though I prefer to call it "trust issues" and is quite removed from the blamegame imo.... oh and I'm a flight rather than a fight person.:hills:

 

[DebinGA]

The judge seemed displeased at Roux's lack of witnesses M-Tu, and iirc he promised her he would be wrapping up his case next Tuesday. That leaves only four court days, and Roux's calling a "gastric emptying" expert? Why, since OP conceded that Reeva could have gone down stairs after 10 pm without his knowing?

 

[acejase]

Surely, there must be something they can garner from this chap Frank. What did he see when he woke? What did he do? (get dressed? grab his cellphone?open his door?) Which way did he go to get out to the street where Carice saw him? (through the kitchen, past the stairs out the front door?) Why was he out on the street? If he didn't hear anything at the time of killing, what or who woke him? What did he think had happened? Where were Oscar's dog(s)? Did he speak to Oscar at any point before he went outside? What did he say to security who were also on the street with him? Did he make any calls? Was he photographed as well? Did he have any blood on him or his clothing?

He's the only other person in the house, there must be something he can provide. Something is not right with this not calling him to give his testimony for either side.

maybe he wasnt in the house but somewere else on the estate be it legitimately or an affair and it was proven were he was and he asked for it to be kept hush but the judge has a note ab out this i agree with you but its all i can think of as to why he didnt hear anything and get called

 

[Val1]

But if she thought there was an intruder, why didn't she call cops or security or Frank?

Well, according to OP's testimony, she was hiding(or had dropped) her cell in the toilet bowl, maybe it needed time to dry out first...

 

[Lyra500]

maybe he wasnt in the house but somewere else on the estate be it legitimately or an affair and it was proven were he was and he asked for it to be kept hush but the judge has a note ab out this i agree with you but its all i can think of as to why he didnt hear anything and get called

But surely in that case he would just have said "I was not there".

What he actually said was that he slept through the entire thing and did not hear a thing - and yet he turns up awake outside the property within minutes of the shooting, fully dressed. If he was elsewhere, that would be yet another unbelievable coincidence.

 

[crasshopper]

To be fair, OP does look top heavy on those stumps so I imagine they are difficult to walk on. Why on earth wouldn't he put his legs on???
It takes seconds he said!!

There are only two options thank goodness


1) OP was wearing his legs the whole time because they never went to bed. He chose to lie about this because the original prosecution case used OP putting on his legs prior to going to the toilet with his loaded gun to bolster their claim of premeditation. Works b/c Prosthetics 'on' isn't or isn't conclusively demonstrated by the evidence. Maybe he was kneeling or crouching, better balance for the latter with prosthetics on.

2) No prosthetics - Heat of the moment, fight with Reeva vs fear of intruder. Slower & going back putting on prosthetics would allow him to add needed minutes to his timeline.

If available or performed the results of these standard Police investigative techniques could have helped better answer these questions. I have no idea if they were or were not performed. If anyone knows, would be great.

• The bases and shafts of both of OP's stumps should have been swabbed for blood and the fronts of stumps for gunshot residue
• Presence of Gunshot residue on the ventral surface, shin surface of the stumps would prove prosthetics were NOT on.
• Presence of Reeva's blood on the base (heel) of his stump would prove he was on stumps.
• Absence of the blood above proves nothing. Could be stumps on clean tile or prosthetics on.
• Test the prosthetics for gunshot residue, if present he wore legs when shooting

Just my thoughts. Might have to draw up a wish list.

 

[acejase]

But surely in that case he would just have said "I was not there".

What he actually said was that he slept through the entire thing and did not hear a thing - and yet he turns up awake outside the property within minutes of the shooting, fully dressed. If he was elsewhere, that would be yet another unbelievable coincidence.

i know what your saying but find it unbeliverble that he slept through things that woke up half the neighbours...id thought he would been 1st 1 in the house not standing outside with security im sure i read that his door butts onto the kitchen

 

[DebinGA]

So, it isn't just not checking on Reeva that bothers me, but also that he didn't rely on her despite his vulnerability and limited mobility which flies in the face of everything I've experienced living with someone disabled.

RSBM
BritsKate, if your NPD ex were legless, would he admit his vulnerability and rely on you? Would he immediately think of making sure you were safe if danger appeared? OP isn't in any sense a reasonable man, disabled or otherwise imo.

 

[james83]

I wonder if we will be hearing from this guy, although this confuses thing's even more.

AT EIGHT minutes past three on the morning of Valentine’s Day Christo Menelaou woke with a start. He’d heard what sounded like three thunderclaps.

At his home in the Silver Woods Estate east of Pretoria he lay in bed waiting for the rain to start.

Almost an hour later he went to the bathroom.

When he opened the window and looked outside he couldn’t believe his eyes. His window looks out onto an empty plot and Olympic and Paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius’ house.

The two men are close friends.

“His house used to be in pitch darkness at night, except for one light that was always on,” Christo (34) says. But that night all the lights were on and there were blue and red lights flashing outside the house.

http://drum.co.za/celebs/hes-heartbroken/

 

[Cymbaline]

maybe he wasnt in the house but somewere else on the estate be it legitimately or an affair and it was proven were he was and he asked for it to be kept hush but the judge has a note ab out this i agree with you but its all i can think of as to why he didnt hear anything and get called

He was outside with security when the Standers arrived.

Does Frank have ESP? a cell phone? Perfect timing?

The only thing downstairs that isn't explained is the broken window that didn't have any broken glass.



JMO

 

[Giles]

My husband is nearly totally immobile - so it's easy for me to envision Oscar having limited mobility (though I think how limited is arguable). The thing I can't get past isn't him not putting his legs on to confront the intruder - it's not ensuring the person who was able-bodied escaped the situation to get help as quickly as possible. That's how I would expect anyone lacking mobility to act - because their immobility is a way of life, it becomes second nature, instinct almost, to rely more heavily on the person who is able-bodied. So, it isn't just not checking on Reeva that bothers me, but also that he didn't rely on her despite his vulnerability and limited mobility which flies in the face of everything I've experienced living with someone disabled.

Thanks for your comment. I have a close relative who has a very similar disability to OP, so I understand too. My original comment wasn't clear, I was responding to someone's question. I do think it would be reasonable for OP to reach for his gun FIRST.

Other than that, I agree with everything you and others have said.

 

[crasshopper]

Well, according to OP's testimony, she was hiding(or had dropped) her cell in the toilet bowl, maybe it needed time to dry out first...

Just what this story was missing 'the cell phone in the toilet bowl' excuse

 

[sicknote]

Poor Frank was heading out for a stroll around the estate and he stumbled into a murder scene in his own house. You cannot make this stuff up......

 

[Emz73]

There are only two options thank goodness


1) OP was wearing his legs the whole time because they never went to bed. He chose to lie about this because the original prosecution case used OP putting on his legs prior to going to the toilet with his loaded gun to bolster their claim of premeditation. Works b/c Prosthetics 'on' isn't or isn't conclusively demonstrated by the evidence. Maybe he was kneeling or crouching, better balance for the latter with prosthetics on.

2) No prosthetics - Heat of the moment, fight with Reeva vs fear of intruder. Slower & going back putting on prosthetics would allow him to add needed minutes to his timeline.

If available or performed the results of these standard Police investigative techniques could have helped better answer these questions. I have no idea if they were or were not performed. If anyone knows, would be great.

• The bases and shafts of both of OP's stumps should have been swabbed for blood and the fronts of stumps for gunshot residue
• Presence of Gunshot residue on the ventral surface, shin surface of the stumps would prove prosthetics were NOT on.
• Presence of Reeva's blood on the base (heel) of his stump would prove he was on stumps.
• Absence of the blood above proves nothing. Could be stumps on clean tile or prosthetics on.
• Test the prosthetics for gunshot residue, if present he wore legs when shooting

Just my thoughts. Might have to draw up a wish list.

This trial hasn't been very "CSI" has it?

Excellent points!

 

[Lyra500]

i know what your saying but find it unbeliverble that he slept through things that woke up half the neighbours...id thought he would been 1st 1 in the house not standing outside with security im sure i read that his door butts onto the kitchen

Oh I agree. As I said in an earlier post, I think he was awake and witnessed the whole thing.

The family will not want him to testify if what he witnessed trashes OP's version of events and he may have said that he will not take the stand and lie for them (and the family may also worry that he would break under cross examination).

The PT may have thought that because he is still employed by the Pistorius family, the chances of him telling the truth are zero so it is pointless to call him.

So in his view, the easiest thing to do is to claim complete ignorance however unbelievable it is.

 

[soozieqtips]

He was outside with security when the Standers arrived.

Does Frank have ESP? a cell phone? Perfect timing?

The only thing downstairs that isn't explained is the broken window that didn't have any broken glass.



JMO

BBM - it's odd isn't it? He happily snoozed through screaming, cricket bat bashing and gunshots, and then for no apparent reason, he was magically transported to the front of the house completely awake!