Trial Discussion Thread #37 - 14.05.12 Day 30

[Jake18]

I think they made a mistake using a psychiatrist, who'd be be more likely to go for firm psychiatric diagnoses, instead of a psychologist. The latter would be more likely to delve into the vulnerability associated with a physical disability without tying themselves into diagnostic knots. Or would that simply be classified as character witness testimony and therefore not admissible?

Either way, some sort of psych defence was inevitable so why was this only happening in the last few weeks? Did someone pull out? So bizarre. There's something very odd going on in the defence camp, IMO.

Remember the early days of the trial when Roux's cross examination scored him autograph hunters and a rap song written for him? I bet he's wishing he turned the whole thing down now.

 

[Magdalyn]

Wondering the same! Never heard of that before....

I think it's a sports psychologist. The industry being sports? Maybe? :scared:

 

[lithgow1]

I knew if I went back far enough, some kind person would have explained what dolus eventualis is again!

It's bad zwiebel I've learned that much. 15 years minimum? Lawyers?

Typing this reminded me of the great Warren Zevon song that goes 'Send lawyers, guns and money, Dad get me out of this! Ha!'. I'm going to listen to that in a little bit.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I've deffo gained a couple of kg .. just sitting watching it all, munching my way through packets of crisps and choccie biscuits :scared:

I could have quite easily gone down that route but I don't keep anything sweet in the house as I don't have much willpower
This must be a great trial for me to have started watching I might find future ones boring in comparison .

 

[BritsKate]

I knew if I went back far enough, some kind person would have explained what dolus eventualis is again!

It's the one that's determined by whether Oscar could foresee the consequences of his actions and did he proceed anyway. Nel led the psychiatrist right into such an admission.

 

[patCee]

I've deffo gained a couple of kg .. just sitting watching it all, munching my way through packets of crisps and choccie biscuits :scared:

My house is also getting dustier and dustier and dustier.

 

[DebinGA]

What was this?

K.T.'s clever parodying of Jack Nicholson's famous "You can't stand the truth!" speech from the movie A Few Good Men.

 

[Fuskier]

His emotions being genuine or not after the fact, does not mean that he did not purposely kill Reeva in a fit of rage.

Exactly!

 

[JudgeJudi]

Whilst we are in a teabreak...anyone else having problems with the Thanks button?

I have this problem on a regular basis. Just go either forward or backward a page and then return to the page you were on, and bingo, the Thanks button is there again.

 

[BarnacleZA]

What's an industrial psychologist? Did I hear right?

Wot the flipperty flip is an industrial psychologist?

Wondering the same! Never heard of that before....

My version...
An industrial psychologist is basically a psychologist used in the corporate environment to assess and in some cases be involved with the therapy of employees. They can also assess general working conditions of employees and may make recommendations to improve working conditions, the motivation of emplyees and any other factors that may influence productivity.

They are also used assess prospective employees to determine suitability for placement and whether they might or might not fit into the specific corporate environment.

And the loooooooong version:
Industrial and organizational psychology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[DebinGA]

Wiki noted Dr. Holmes is the uncle of SA pro surfer Sean Holmes, who OP probably knows, perhaps well.

 

[JimCricket]

I think it's a sports psychologist. The industry being sports? Maybe? :scared:

Industrial Psyc specialises deals with work place issues / employee behaviors / organisational issues. It is a globally recognised profession.

 

[soozieqtips]

If Pistorius were found to be suffering from a mental illness, he could be held not criminally responsible for his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp's death and found not guilty by reason of "mental illness or intellectual disability".

http://news.sky.com/story/1259754/oscar-pistorius-suffers-from-anxiety-disorder

Isn't it better for his case not to be held criminally responsible?

Isn't it the difference between :jail: and a psychiatric hospital?

 

[katydid23]

That's not really the issue. It's that the psychiatrist made one comment under cross that could be used to show diminished responsibility. It could a) come back to bite the State in an appeal, assuming the defendant is convicted and b) could bite Nel specifically if he doesn't pursue such a claim as I believe he's ethically required to. The psychiatrist opened the door to doubt.

Now, if the court rules against it - such a decision, for better or worse, is on the court but I believe Nel has to at least make an application for the reasons above. As well, it could also be a tactic by Nel to force the defence into a corner on their strategy and assertions as a result.

BBM

Bingo. I think that is a big part of it. lol

 

[Fuskier]

I wouldn't be surprised if Nel isn't putting the frighteners on Oscar right there in court to provoke an anxiety attack... a Section 77 doesn't mean one lounges around on a pychiatrists comfy couch, it means he goes to a criminal forensic ward, under guard , his bail is revoked immediately, he gets a court appointed Dr. ooo..

This is what is needed IMO.

 

[lithgow1]

If Pistorius were found to be suffering from a mental illness, he could be held not criminally responsible for his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp's death and found not guilty by reason of "mental illness or intellectual disability".

http://news.sky.com/story/1259754/oscar-pistorius-suffers-from-anxiety-disorder

Isn't it better for his case not to be held criminally responsible?

Isn't it the difference between :jail: and a psychiatric hospital?

David Dadic says it's not good as 'the report may be wrong, his capacity may be fine, his version weakens'.

The report is this one presented today.

 

[soozieqtips]

David Dadic says it's not good as 'the report may be wrong, his capacity may be fine, his version weakens'.

The report is this one presented today.

I found this:

Section 77 requires that the defendant be tested for fitness to stand trial' (competence), and section 78 directs that the assessment consider whether the mental illness or disability interferes with the defendant's appreciation of wrongfulness, or his ability to act in accordance with such an appreciation. It is an interesting anomaly in that the question of criminal responsibility is assumed to be juridical (in that only the court can decide this) but the Act requires psychiatrists to comment on this.

If a defendant is not competent to stand trial and /or lacks criminal responsibility the charges are withdrawn and he is referred to a state psychiatric hospital for indefinite hospitalization under section 28 of the Mental Health Act (whereupon he becomes known as a 'state patient').

http://bama.ua.edu/~jhooper/southaf.html

 

[Forensics]

...an alternative universe?....

andrew harding@BBCAndrewH

#OscarPistorius told me state's demand to refer him for psychiatric evaluation was "a joke" and that today's evidence went "well" for him.

 

[jay-jay]

BBC Andrew Harding "#OscarPistorius told me state's demand to refer him for psychiatric evaluation was "a joke" and that today's evidence went "well" for him."

https://twitter.com/BBCAndrewH/status/465836919897989120

 

[sicknote]

Do you believe Nel shouldn't have done this ?
I would think now it has been raised OP 's state of mind at the time of the shooting needs to be established ?

If its a legal requirement, then surely he has to go through with it.