Trial Discussion Thread #37 - 14.05.12 Day 30

[DebinGA]

Apologies if this has been already posted.

http://oscartrial.dstv.com/video/528554/category/0

Very interesting, especially noting Wollie didn't do any independent ballistics investigating of his own, but just tried to find holes in Mangena's. And Wollie apparently didn't ask OP anything at all about the night, despite OP remembering everything that happened.

 

[ColonelMustard]

As she's not wearing robes, this would be Nel's instructing solicitor, as we call them in our country. They work on a case from it's inception until counsel are retained, and so they've probably worked as a team since the bail application. She would know every bit about the case as Nel, would put the brief together and so on and so forth.

Thanks for your reply on this. How would it change if she was wearing robes because I see her in a black robe?

 

[Sha]

Absolutely not, but it makes me hope you'll share your informed insights.

I have absolutely no compulsions to hurt anyone.

 

[AlexUK]

If there is now any question that OP is about to be judged 'unstable' and/or 'a danger' it makes the fact that he has been out on bail all this time a bit of a farce!

 

[G.bng]

If he was offered a plea deal that included a lesser charge and a reduced prison sentence you and i both know there is no chance that he would accept it.

IDK, at this stage I am sure he knows he is never going to walk scott free so it may... or he may not. Who knows, maybe if the Section 78 application is allowed by Masipa, not sure it will be though, there would be time for further negotiations. Wouldn't be the first surprise of the trial!

 

[DebinGA]

Nel is THE MAN. He is by far my favorite prosecutor in the years I have followed criminal trials. Him and the Ashton team.

Nel is outstanding, especially given the cockamamie SA rules that don't require defense experts to give their reports to the PT until they walk by to take the stand.

 

[DebinGA]

I have absolutely no compulsions to hurt anyone.

Good to know, but if you ever do I'm prepared to offer several suggestions.

 

[Lyra500]

Your reasoning makes a lot more sense than my thinking Roux was a bit sloppy in all this. I'd briefly forgotten that Perumal suddenly had other 'scheduling' issues and couldn't appear for the defence. Not to mention OP's ever-changing testimony must have made it difficult for Roux to know who to call - hence the witnesses showing up that were still carrying out sound tests when the trial was well under way, and then a psychiatrist who only weighed in just over a week ago! Wouldn't want to be Roux, right now!

I feel genuinely sorry for the guy - talk about a poisoned chalice.

I don't know how much Roux is earning, but I'm not sure any amount of money could compensate for trying to make a silk purse out of this particular sow's ear.

 

[BritB]

What a great day for me to join in with this conversation here but so much is going on that I hardly know where to start. I am sorry if this has been raised already but what is everyone's view on Oscar's reaction today to the suggestion by Nel that he is likely to be sectioned under the mental health act and admitted to a psychiatric hospital for assessment?
I have been watching OP's body language throughout the trial and the change this afternoon was very interesting but I can't decide if he either was not aware of what Nel was saying to the judge about applying for the section 78 or if he was shocked?

 

[jay-jay]

I

I have maintained all along that if Oscar gets a slap on the wrist part of that slap will be that he must not handle a gun ever again.

~snipped~

This must be some sort of joke, right? This is really all you want to happen to him, isn't it.

 

[soozieqtips]

What a great day for me to join in with this conversation here but so much is going on that I hardly know where to start. I am sorry if this has been raised already but what is everyone's view on Oscar's reaction today to the suggestion by Nel that he is likely to be sectioned under the mental health act and admitted to a psychiatric hospital for assessment?
I have been watching OP's body language throughout the trial and the change this afternoon was very interesting but I can't decide if he either was not aware of what Nel was saying to the judge about applying for the section 78 or if he was shocked?

BBM - He was frantically passing a LOT of notes during that exchange!

 

[lithgow1]

I've been waiting all evening for you to post this. :gthanks:

Thanks though it's a bit too brief. It's these nightly discussions I think we all want to see but I don't think we can access them as they are on a pay basis. But all in good time I guess. Finally got to catch up with today's events on you-tube. Lots of good stuff - see when Roux banged the table in anger or frustration when Nel started going down the road that has led us to here. Telling eh - tomorrow will be interesting - though I say that every day!

 

[AlexUK]

What a great day for me to join in with this conversation here but so much is going on that I hardly know where to start. I am sorry if this has been raised already but what is everyone's view on Oscar's reaction today to the suggestion by Nel that he is likely to be sectioned under the mental health act and admitted to a psychiatric hospital for assessment?
I have been watching OP's body language throughout the trial and the change this afternoon was very interesting but I can't decide if he either was not aware of what Nel was saying to the judge about applying for the section 78 or if he was shocked?

That cold fish, death stare thingy he was doing this afternoon was very creepy....praps the psych woman slipped him a couple of happy pills in the lunch break.....

 

[jay-jay]

No this is a state facility with a unit for the criminally insane. They are not shackled as it is a hospital and it is against the law in a hospital especially a psych hospital. There are armed guards and high fences but they walk around as they please on the unit, can watch TV, read, talk to others, have snacks and three catered meals a day. They even have a night where they can order out if they have their own money. The place is clean and they share with one or two room mates (and their own bathroom in their room) but the beds are comfortable and they have clean linens every day if they want. They must bathe every other day or when told by staff. It is gorgeous in comparison to the jails (or prisons) I have seen. Most of the people who are sent for a 30 day eval are in jail because they cannot afford bail. But it is to their benefit to go along with it even if they were on bail. The judge who does most of the murder trials almost always believes the Psychiatric evaluation is legit. If the defense lawyer wants to ask for a ruling by the judge or judges (no jury) they almost always get NGRI if the Psychiatric team believes they are in fact not guilty by reason of insanity. They can only be held til the psychiatric team says they are no longer a threat to society (so to speak) and a group home etc. has been found for them as a trial to live elsewhere. It is so nice most of them don't want to leave. They have visitors just like any hospital. They have holiday meals and parties. No I don't suppose OP would like it there because he wouldn't be able to fool anyone. :moo:

On the Sky News round up this evening, they were talking about the fact that OP may have to wait weeks or even months for a bed .. and that he may even be assessed on an out patient basis

 

[seattlechiquita]

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiit I think I understand what happened and OMG is mister OP in deed doo-doo.

 

[katydid23]

Voster testified to diminished culpability due to the confluence of his status as a double amputee and his psychiatric disorder of GAD, that is what happened, that is why Nel was so flustered.

And she also said that Nel was a 'danger' when he was armed. Given that he is out on bail, and could get his hands on a weapon again if he felt especially anxious, Nel had to make the referral.

I did not see Nel as 'flustered.' He appeared adamant and determined, not flustered, imo.

 

[lithgow1]

~snipped~

This must be some sort of joke, right? This is really all you want to happen to him, isn't it.

Boggles my mind too I must admit. If he gets a slap on the wrist it ought to come from the handcuffs as they are snapped on.

 

[Val1]

Your are wrong she said the mental order was dangerous and would have made him respond differently.
That was what made Nel spring into action.

I and if I read this article correctly, it too agrees with your statement.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/12/oscar-pistorius-trial-reeva-steenkamp-murder-12-may

For those with a better understanding of the legalese and want more...
http://www.justice.gov.za/legislation/acts/1977-051.pdf

 

[BritsKate]

From lithgow's link:

Discussion concluding Oscar's experts testimony contradicting his own will be very relevant to Masipa.

Forensic psych was brought in to bolster anxiety but the defence overshot it and opened the door to Oscar's blameworthiness.

5 minute clip so that's about the sum of it...of course, they're legal experts, so likely have no idea what they're talking about. (End sarcasm.)

 

[jay-jay]

If he's fit to pass notes forward every other minute than he's fit to face trial, sick of this man and his team's attempt's to avoid justice, you done the crime now shut the hell up and get ready to do the time.

Me too .. there is nothing wrong with this bloke apart from narcissistic personality disorder .. get him locked up and set Reeva's family and friends free of this trial .. for all his supposed praying for them, he couldn't really give a monkeys about them and what they are having to go through with all of this.