Trial Discussion Thread #43 - 14.06.30 Day 33

[Hope4More]

Very dry facts about DB (decibel) levels of sound with windows open/closed. On the balcony, etc...

Sometimes facts ARE dry. Thankfully, I'm guessing facts about acoustics and decibels will for this judge trump opinions and emotions about The Screams.

 

[zwiebel]

Going by what the sound expert said, everything a person hears is so unreliable, Dixon's frogs could have been dogs growling.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I'm wondering the opposite - whether she's trying to ensure that her trial seems 100% fair and so that there's no grounds for appeal when she gives him a hefty sentence. Hence the mental health assessment etc.

And, if she's truly upset by this piece of seemingly not that crucial evidence i wonder how she really feels about Carice and Aimee running off with Reeva's handbag?

Exactly, and that was a far more serious issue IMO as who knows what was in the deceased's handbag. One can well imagine the missing phone to start with, and the DT had it for (?) 16 days! I remember when OP went upstairs to get that bag he made a point of saying that he hadn't gone through it? Now why would he volunteer a piece of information like that?

 

[Viper]

I know Nel kept on saying OP was "running" here and there and everywhere, but did OP actually say he "ran" down the passage, around the bedroom, into the bathroom, etc. ? I am sure I recall OP said he moved backwards towards the bedroom after the shots keeping his eye on the bathroom window... can anyone "run" backwards?

If Nel says something and Roux does not stand up to object then what Nel says is correct.

 

[zwiebel]

Sometimes facts ARE dry. Thankfully, I'm guessing facts about acoustics and decibels will for this judge trump opinions and emotions about The Screams.

my problem with the facts we just heard are we were told that they were all based on a range of scenarios with unknown factors - psych perception, humidity etc. But we were not told which - if any - of those factors were present that night, as far as I can see.

 

[44ALLAN]

I know Nel kept on saying OP was "running" here and there and everywhere, but did OP actually say he "ran" down the passage, around the bedroom, into the bathroom, etc. ? I am sure I recall OP said he moved backwards towards the bedroom after the shots keeping his eye on the bathroom window... can anyone "run" backwards?

I think a more relevant question would be...........if he couldn't keep his balance whilst walking forwards he would surely have landed flat on his arsX running or walking backwards :facepalm:
And with a loaded gun in his hand too lmao.

 

[lithgow1]

Did I miss something? Dr V only said "may be" her GAD diagnosis could have affected Op's ability to act in accordance with his knowledge of wrongfulness not that it would, as per DrV's words quoted in this article here in today's Guardian which quotes as follows:



So, I am not sure just because it has been determined that GAD didn't affect OP's ability to appreciate wrongfulness that night, the only finding disclosed of the report so far, not surprisingly since it was the only thing relative to the order, that the GAD or PTSD diagnosis has been "significantly downgraded". And if I understood correctly, both Nel and Roux said something about parts of the report would be disputed in testimony or final arguments or something... or not?

I'm just going by what Kelly Phelps, a senior lecturer in law in SA said. She said on CNN that the pysch report conclusion meant that Dr Meryl's evidence would be considered of much lesser value, or words to that effect.

 

[kittychi]

Sometimes facts ARE dry. Thankfully, I'm guessing facts about acoustics and decibels will for this judge trump opinions and emotions about The Screams.

If that is true, then I think we will see lots of defense expert witnesses appear in trials all over the world to rebut any testimony from several witnesses that they may not have heard what they actually did hear.

 

[Viper]

Sometimes facts ARE dry. Thankfully, I'm guessing facts about acoustics and decibels will for this judge trump opinions and emotions about The Screams.

So who was screaming? If OPs screaming and Reeva's screaming could not be heard at those distances and under those circumstances, who was screaming that night? Are the screams that the neighbors heard not facts? Are they just imaginary opinions and emotions? I'm not following the logic of your post.

 

[canny]

Yep, he quite definitely used the word 'ran'.

And this is what he stated in his sworn affidavit.

I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help. I put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open. I think I must then have turned on the lights.

 

[james83]

Well I wish Nel luck having to plough thru all that testimony tonight, I really do. I hope he has an expert sound engineer to consult with.

Barry Bateman @barrybateman · 2h
#OscarTrial the state’s acoustics expert is seated next to Nel, they’re paging through the report. BB

 

[JudgeJudi]

In order to refute the witness testimony, surely the DT have to prove that the witnesses didn't hear what they heard, not that in some situations, some things might have been heard or not, or confused or not.

At the moment it's like listening to Dixon all over again. Nel wants to sit down with his sound expert and try and match these findings to the distances of the ear witnesses. I can just imagine this guy is going to say none of the witnesses could have heard anything, the screams are subjective and could be those of a man or a woman, but how is he going to get around the fact that all ear witnesses heard sounds, screams, crying all around the same time and rang security. There's no way he can explain that away no matter what his tests show.

 

[lithgow1]

I'd go get her, but then I'd be complicit in the mauling of her that always follows.

Mauling? Respectful disagreement is not a mauling and I for one give no great weight to a lawyer based in the US commenting on a trial in South Africa when we have had South African lawyers here - at least we did until they were 'mauled' about their identity.

 

[Really?]

Safe to say we know what Mr Roux has been up to during the long break.

 

[BatGunKick]

Fear not, this testimony of Lin's does not hurt the States case.

Reeva could have been outside the toilet at some stage:
like this:
Reeva is in the toilet behind the door for bat damage, then Oscar goes to get gun, she comes out of the toilet into bathroom, sees him coming, screams very blood curdling screams from the bathroom or even as she runs from passage to bathroom and finally into toilet, (screams are then heard outside the toilet by witnesses), then he fires gunshots at her through toilet door. It's possible. Wherever OP wants us to think he screamed, Reeva could have screamed.

It's also so simple to clear up - just play a tape of Oscar screaming 'like a girl' and ask witnesses if this is what they heard...BUT tape has not been played, because (in my opinion) it would clearly show he does not sound like a girl, and that witnesses indeed heard Reeva screaming.

Now they've got a sound reader, so hey - I've got an idea - get OP to define a "low tone" and get him to speak into that thing saying: "Reeva call the police" - OP said when he first heard the noise he turned to her direction and it was 'not a whisper', but a low tone enough for her to hear. What a joke, his story is totally unbelievable.

 

[canny]

Sometimes facts ARE dry. Thankfully, I'm guessing facts about acoustics and decibels will for this judge trump opinions and emotions about The Screams.

This acoustic engineer's presumed scientific evidence hasn't been cross examined by Nel.He first has to consult with the State's experts on this critical issue and tomorrow we can conclude whether the defense experts facts are dry or wet.

 

[Really?]

Hi all, looking forward to seeing how OP has been going

It's 5:30pm in Brisbane, Australia

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

Yeah a , that sounds great on a big screen

Freya, you look different. Haha

Great to see everyone. I'm still on page 1

 

[Duchy]

My summation:

Everything from humidity to doors to psychological perception can affect what we hear and when we hear it. So no-one who heard anything the night Reeva died can be trusted.

Did they measure how much wax each witness had in their ears I wonder?:doh:

 

[JudgeJudi]

Are you one of those with blackout curtains? I cannot stand them, it's like sleeping underground and I get really claustrophobic!

Hahahah. Yes, but they're for the daytime. In Australia we have a really bright sun and our bedrooms get sun all day long. If we didn't have blockout curtains, ordinary curtain fabric would just perish. I do love having the curtains open at night though and be able to look at the stars. I just have to be mindful that I'm not on show to the neighbours if I have to get up during the night, so like Oscar, I'm pretty good at creeping around in pitch black and don't put on a light. :australia:

 

[Really?]

So I guess now we are going to hear the sad story surrounding his childhood disabilities...:violin:

LOL. Poor 0p