Trial Discussion Thread #44 - 14.07.1-2, Day 34-35

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From 13 feb text message from reeva to Op:
13:10pm
RS: It’s a difficult thing to try to console you baba because it’s a ****** thing and you’re a nice guy. I guess these things happen and we can just hope they work out for the best. You are an amazing person with so many blessings and you are more than cared for. Your health and future monetary blessings far outweigh this hurdle I can promise you that 
OP: Thank you so much my angel you don’t have to. X Stay tonight if you would like.

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-15-state-rests/


It's a hunch that the problem could be Cassidy-Memmory-related just because of the nature of the text. It's as if someone has done something "******" as he is a nice guy who doesn't deserve it . ie. it's personal rather than financial. (Sure on record he had gone for a business meeting - what if he had actually been to a couple of unrelated meetings that day- one at the Weber's firm?)
Second underlined phrase can be read two ways ;reassurance - don't worry about this personal ****** thing, you're healthy and loaded.
Or don't worry about this financial setback - think of long term financial deals being offered to you.
If I've not answered it, let me know- but it'll take a while to find the sports articles I was looking at a month ago re why I think he was becoming a Beckham commodity post Olympics.

To me at least, the messages reads as the $h!tty thing being financially related somehow… an upcoming out of Court settlement OR a bad investment OR an expected sponsorship deal that had fallen through.

OP stated that the meeting he had on 13 February was with his financial advisor, didn't he ?… would be rather stupid to lie about something that could easily be verified by the State.

The "Beckham commodity" statement might just be self-promoting PR to attract sponsors and not real-world offers.

I suspect that if Peet van Zyl and the Defence had signed contracts or contracts in the making they would have provided them to the Court… as they said they could provide the contracts that stated that Reeva was accompanying Oscar in Rio.

I would expect some of those contracts to be signed by February… 5 months after the Olympics.

I just can't see anything OP has done at London Olympics that would result in an overwhelming trend of sponsors wanting to back him that much… on the contrary, I only see things that would make them back away.
 
OP stated that the meeting he had on 13 February was with his financial advisor, didn't he ?… would be rather stupid to lie about something that could easily be verified by the State.

simplest reply first: someone - think it was Lisasalinger had worked out his movements morning of 13th Feb left time unaccounted for- he left very early for his appointment- possible he met two separate appointments that morn. (Initially this promoted the Erin Stear speculation : was he going off for coffee with another woman unbeknownst to RS. ES was on State's witness list and in the SA gossip columns after murder.) But could have been legal advice instead of another woman. NO basis in fact I am afraid either way.

Can't see Nel calling witnesses from any meetings as he doesn't need motivation re argument does he?
 
Peet van Zyl alleges that Oscar Pistorius performance in London had raised him to the level of an international sports icon and that his income from sponsors and product ambassadorships would multiply by a factor of 5 !!!

Let us examine the reality of Oscar's performance in 2012 :

London Paralympics 100 m : 4 th – 11.17 seconds

The star of this event was Jonnie Peacock, the 19-year old athlete who finished 1st with a new Paralympic record. The 20-year old Richard Browne finished in 2 nd place and the 27-year old South African Arnu Fourie finished in 3rd place… Oscar did not even make the podium.

Sponsors are well known for substantially increasing their financial backing of athletes who's performance decline and come in 4 th place.

London Paralympics 200 m : 2 nd – 21.52 seconds

Oscar Pistorius accused the the 19-year old Alan Oliveira of cheating… Peet van Zyl referred to this race as the "famous race"… infamous race would be a far more accurate way of describing this race.

Sponsors are well known for substantially increasing their financial backing of athletes who display poor sportsmanship and sore looser behavior on international media broadcasts.

London Paralympics 400 : 1 st – 46.68 seconds

Oscar Pistorius finished 3.46 seconds ahead of the second place athlete… the 400 m is far less prestigious than the 100 m and the 200 m… the high level athletes do not even compete in this event… so Oscar had no real competition in the 400 m (same as in Beijing, 4 years earlier)

Sponsors are well known for substantially increasing their financial backing of athletes who perform in non-prestigious events without any serious competition.

London Olympics 400 m : 16 th – 45.44 seconds

After lengthy and expensive proceedings to be allowed to compete against able-bodied athletes, Oscar Pistorius only managed a 16 th place. It was only hubris that led him down this futile and expensive judicial appeal because Oscar and his coach knew that his 400 m times were nowhere good enough to seriously compete against able-bodied athletes.

Sponsors are well known for substantially increasing their financial backing of athletes who engage in publicity stunts that ultimately backfire pathetically.

Oscar's future

It is a well documented and known fact, that on average athletes peak and reach their prime at around 25 years of age… Oscar was supposed to be in his prime at the London Paralympics in 2012 at age 26… but he failed to achieve any significant or noteworthy performance.

Peet van Zyl alleges that Oscar's retirement from competition was planned for 2017… this means that Oscar Pistorius would compete at the Rio Paralympics in 2016 at age 30… he would be far past his prime… I suspect he would struggle to even qualify for the 100 m and 200 m events.

Oscar Pistorius was clearly past his prime, on a downhill slope and his carbon fiber running blades were no longer a unique and novel technology that provided him with an significant edge over other athletes… the blades were now common place and being used by all of the other athletes… athletes who were far younger and faster than Oscar Pistorius.

Sponsors are well known for substantially increasing their financial backing of athletes who are loosing the favorable lime-light and are rapidly fading out of relevance.


When this agent started testifying in detail about OP's "potential earning power" - during a murder trial - the first thing that crossed my mind is that this agent is somehow trying to set things up for an insurance claim based on "loss of earning power". I have no idea if such insurance is available to professional athletes, if OP carries such insurance, or if any such insurance would apply when the athlete is accused of murder.

But NOTHING would surprise me!
 
simplest reply first: someone - think it was Lisasalinger had worked out his movements morning of 13th Feb left time unaccounted for- he left very early for his appointment- possible he met two separate appointments that morn. (Initially this promoted the Erin Stear speculation : was he going off for coffee with another woman unbeknownst to RS. ES was on State's witness list and in the SA gossip columns after murder.) But could have been legal advice instead of another woman. NO basis in fact I am afraid either way.

Can't see Nel calling witnesses from any meetings as he doesn't need motivation re argument does he?

All true.

Let us remember that OP called RS to tell her about the $h!tty news… then afterwards, RS felt it necessary to further console him about it by writing the Whatsapp message.

It would make for an unnecessarily elaborate cover-up story to have coffee with another woman.
 
:tantrum:
I'm not trying to defend OP but this isn't an ordinary murder case.

It deals with a sports icon, one that was used to making millions and having fame thrown upon him.

As an athlete, his tools of the profession was his body and it had to be in tip top shape in terms of diet and rest. We see all the time in sports where athletes are thrown off the team because they come to training out of shape or overweight.

As an athlete, he has limited time to make as much money as possible before he is forced to retire because he is to old to compete.

That's why there was a lot of talk about I and me and it would put a lot of strain on any relationship he had.

They always say that someone can only be judged by their peers and I think the only people that would understand the pressures placed on OP would be other athletes.

PERHAPS....a person experiencing the pressures of making it in a modeling career. Perhaps a person trying to excel in an extremely competitive career, such as a model. A career which also has a very limited "window" to exceed, due to age. A very limited time frame to make money. A model might also understand the pressures and difficulty of diets and eating healthy specific & limiting foods. Perhaps...someone like Reeva?

Except Reeva had the ADDED PRESSURES of having no financial support growing up or as an adult, like Oscar has. Support yes, but not financially. As a matter of record, she was struggling to help her parents financially with their circumstances as well. Living in a rented room of another family in order to cut down on expenses. She also put herself through law school, preparing for a time when modeling would no longer be an option for income.

She was NOT however, out purchasing and designing 2nd and 3rd homes. Looking to buy a McLaren anytime soon, etc. Oscar already had numerous sponsors and continuing income from those sponsors. He could have invested it in stocks, property, business ventures, etc. (which I'm sure he did). And therefore had an avenue for income and a continuing great lifestyle in his future, if handled properly. Regardless of age, with the right attitude and staying clear of trouble. . . and being the "hero" and "sweetheart" of So. Africa, Oscar had a lot of lucrarive avenues open to him beyond his running years, IMO.
 
When this agent started testifying in detail about OP's "potential earning power" - during a murder trial - the first thing that crossed my mind is that this agent is somehow trying to set things up for an insurance claim based on "loss of earning power". I have no idea if such insurance is available to professional athletes, if OP carries such insurance, or if any such insurance would apply when the athlete is accused of murder.

But NOTHING would surprise me!

Indeed.

But I suspect one would have to be able to prove such a loss of potential future earnings.

Perhaps it's not about insurance… perhaps OP is so confident about winning his case that he is already setting the stage for a civil action against the State !!
 
When this agent started testifying in detail about OP's "potential earning power" - during a murder trial - the first thing that crossed my mind is that this agent is somehow trying to set things up for an insurance claim based on "loss of earning power". I have no idea if such insurance is available to professional athletes, if OP carries such insurance, or if any such insurance would apply when the athlete is accused of murder.

But NOTHING would surprise me!

I'd imagine sponsorships come with very heavily worded get out clauses about bad publicity, bringing their name into disrepute etc as can be seen by the likes of Adidas 'reviewing' their sponsorship of Luis Suarez after his World Cup tapas tasting event.

I'm loving the agent so far. He seems to have an ego that's just begging to be taken apart by Nel. I particularly liked the chauvanistic approach that he didn't expect his arm to be grabbed by a frightened man when there was a loud noise.
 
I still think the relationship between Aimee and Oscar is weird. Very weird. The "long embraces" thing creeps me out.

Something seems a bit off to me too. Perhaps it's just a very close relationship between the 3 siblings, one protecting the other after the passing of their Mom (and Dad being out of the picture for a long time). Of course Oscar, with his disability, would be even more protected, looked after by the other two.

However, if you've ever seen a picture of their Mom when she was much younger....Aimee IMO is the mirror image of her Mom at a younger age. They look so much alike. At least the picture I saw. I was shocked by the resemblance.

Yah, weird little bit. :dunno:
 
:tantrum:

... He could have invested it in stocks, property, business ventures, etc. (which I'm sure he did). And therefore had an avenue for income and a continuing great lifestyle in his future, if handled properly. .

rsbm

Agree with your post, but an aside...

I would love to know what exactly Oldwage took out of that safe on morning after killing, with police permission. Didn't they say it was hard drives with details of offshore accounts? Sounds like a convenient story.
 
Someone posted earlier - can't find it sorry - that we should each think of a question that we should post for Nel to ask. At the risk of sounding narcissistic(!!) it would provide some amusement.

However I suppose it means anticipating next day's witness. I'm still on youtube session 3 now so I have no idea if he even finishes with Van Zyl today. So happy for someone to tell me it's a barmy notion.:blushing:
 
How is that justice when you can't properly cross examine a witness because you haven't had time to prepare or consult.

I would love to know more about the So.African laws in this area. Seems odd to mean as well. It sounds like they do not have "discovery laws" like we have in the U.S.

To me that doesn't appear to be a level playing field. And why not disclose and share all? BEFORE wasting the court's time? Going to trial shouldn't be about "one upping" the other side. It should be about "fact finding" and then seeking justice based on your belief of the truth after uncovering the facts. IMO.
 
Someone posted earlier - can't find it sorry - that we should each think of a question that we should post for Nel to ask. At the risk of sounding narcissistic(!!) it would provide some amusement.

However I suppose it means anticipating next day's witness. I'm still on youtube session 3 now so I have no idea if he even finishes with Van Zyl today. So happy for someone to tell me it's a barmy notion.:blushing:

Sounds interesting. Maybe you should start a new, separate thread so all the questions are in a central spot. I know I have a few I'd like SOMEONE to ask. :great:
 
(Respectfully snipped for space)

Thank you for this helpful information. And explained in much simpler, more easily understood terms. I look forward to your additional research & feedback (as mentioned), if you have the time.
<snipped with respect also>

Here are the results of my informal research. I'll post photos & details of my equipment and setup later. Basically I used a recording of a woman's scream, played back at calibrated levels with my partner as the operator and I was the blind listener:

Background noise of my room in the evening: 31 dBA SPL

Average SPL of scream at listening positioning:

25 dBA - barely audible, barely intelligible - really need to listen out for it with lab test style attention, could tell was a wailing, high-ish pitch, continuous sound like maybe very faint alarm or machine, but not really identifiable as a scream.

35 dBA - clearly audible, readily identifiable as a woman's scream, very quiet - sounds far off in the distance

42 dBA - same as above but the slightly louder nature made it quite a bit more alarming - more than the numbers suggest - if I heard this in the night, I would immediately wake up my partner and be very concerned

50 dBA - easily audible, definitely alarming, I would waste no time calling the police straight away

The 35 dBA scream played with 45 dBA pink noise cut through very well and was still clearly identifiable - therefore I believe an accurate estimation of the natural background noise on the night is not significant.


My calculation of the expected levels of the scream at 177m is that a reasonable range to predict would be worst-case 23 dBA, best-case 53 dBA, and that a typical figure would be 43 dBA.

(The variation comes almost all from the attenuation characteristics of the toilet door at the source and the window at the receiver. So, although it is probable for a witness to hear the scream and its character, on the other hand it is also entirely and reasonably possible for a witness to not have been able to hear anything - but it all depends, and you need measurements of, the door and window. This could have been easily performed as access to similar doors and windows and buildings was available, but this was never done and the modelling leaned towards the worst-case attenuation and worst-case level of scream. The more likely values were never considered at all, and the best-case levels similarly omitted - this lack of a range suggests possible bias imo. I cannot for the life of me remember Lin's table and ranges for audibility/intelligibility, and have not checked it, so don't know how this matches with my findings)
 
Sounds interesting. Maybe you should start a new, separate thread so all the questions are in a central spot. I know I have a few I'd like SOMEONE to ask. :great:

In the unlikely event Nel’s firm has an intern paid to read WS overnight…

1. As van Zyl did everything he could to avoid agreeing that Op was a reckless person it would be good to ask him about the Vaal boating river accident as it looks like OP lied under oath about April 7th 2013 saying sun was setting and affected his vision. Van Zyl held press conf about after the event. Does VZ remember he gave a comment which revealed real time of the crash as quoted
“We’re left pondering the words of Pistorius’ manager Peet van Zyl, to Beeld on 27 February 2009: “Die enigste fout wat hy gemaak het, was om na donker met ‘n boot op die water te wees” (The only mistake he made was to be in a boat on the water after dark)”
Further what advice did he give OP re avoiding future career threatening risky behaviour? Was VZ involved in dealings with Vanderbijlpark police once they had opened a case of reckless and negligent driving against Pistorius & re the allegations of drinking on boat at the time?

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2014-04-22-did-oscar-pistorius-lie-on-the-stand/#.U7MnYc25aeY

3. Nature, persons involved in business meeting 13.2.13 and if he was aware at the disappointment.
4. VZ’s perception of how OP was feeling re prospect of retirement- was he apprehensive?
5. Why was he called to the house post death and what happened, who did he speak to?
6. In the period between Op being taken into custody and later Oakley and Nike dropping him what were the nature of the business negotiations between all four parties. VZ would have been giving sponsors assurances initially based on what Op was actually telling him re intruder story etc. (ie VZ & OP must have spoken about the incident in more detail than he is saying)

Has any WS poster got the OP “autobiography”? Must be something in there?
 
cool stuff, the technicals of sound......what did you make of Lin's analysis of audible and intelligible at 177m - the distance from the Stipps' residence to OP's?
 
Can't post this on yesterday's thread as it's locked down.

Yesterday Dr V read out OP's words on his own disability and daily routines;
" I bath rather than shower because I can't stand long. I have a bench in my shower. I can't stand and wash myself in the shower. I have slipped lots of times in the shower."

15 minutes in on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6ijyJKQJkw

Whilst looking at sponsorship deals for cosmetics, came across this from a mens mag :
Q Do you have a daily grooming routine?
A I usually shower as I wake up to get my day going, after my morning gym session I usually have an ice bath or shower again. We have training on the track in the afternoon and it&#8217;s pretty much the same after we have finished up there. I shave when I have to but make sure my face is always clean
http://thegroomingguide.com/icon/oscar-pistorius/

Of course it's only a little thing BUT there's a lot of them- some stored indefinitely online!
 
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