Trial Discussion Thread #44 - 14.07.1-2, Day 34-35

[Hoosen_Fenger]

(The only mistake he made was to be in a boat on the water after dark)

........Snipped by me...

I wouldn't ask Van Zyl a question about the difference between sunset & dark..... you know how evasive the defence team are on sources of light

 

[K.T]

In the unlikely event Nel’s firm has an intern paid to read WS overnight…

1. As van Zyl did everything he could to avoid agreeing that Op was a reckless person it would be good to ask him about the Vaal boating river accident as it looks like OP lied under oath about April 7th 2013 saying sun was setting and affected his vision. Van Zyl held press conf about after the event. Does VZ remember he gave a comment which revealed real time of the crash as quoted
“We’re left pondering the words of Pistorius’ manager Peet van Zyl, to Beeld on 27 February 2009: “Die enigste fout wat hy gemaak het, was om na donker met ‘n boot op die water te wees” (The only mistake he made was to be in a boat on the water after dark)”
Further what advice did he give OP re avoiding future career threatening risky behaviour? Was VZ involved in dealings with Vanderbijlpark police once they had opened a case of reckless and negligent driving against Pistorius & re the allegations of drinking on boat at the time?

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2014-04-22-did-oscar-pistorius-lie-on-the-stand/#.U7MnYc25aeY

3. Nature, persons involved in business meeting 13.2.13 and if he was aware at the disappointment.
4. VZ’s perception of how OP was feeling re prospect of retirement- was he apprehensive?
5. Why was he called to the house post death and what happened, who did he speak to?
6. In the period between Op being taken into custody and later Oakley and Nike dropping him what were the nature of the business negotiations between all four parties. VZ would have been giving sponsors assurances initially based on what Op was actually telling him re intruder story etc. (ie VZ & OP must have spoken about the incident in more detail than he is saying)

Has any WS poster got the OP “autobiography”? Must be something in there?

I think Viper has read the autobiography. Most of the Pistorius/defense team supporters here on WB seem to have copies or read it...probably enshrined it in gold, underlined with lipstick kisses and tears for his supersad story.

Great list of questions

- now that Van Zyl has offered himself up as character defender, I'd love to see him used as a Pistorius proxy. He's the financial advisor so he has to be grilled onto what '*****ty' things affected the defendants troubled mindset that shooting night. This is AS important as any GAD/hyper vigilance speculation, goes directly into possible 'un/reasonable' mindset.

- Questioning about Cassidy Memmory aggression incident and longstanding lawsuit that was being carried on throughout his work dealings with Pistorius.

- Questioning about Pistorius 'dignified' dealings with people next to questions about mysterious damage to house like the bath-tub hole, the pellet holes in bedroom door and significant damage to the doors. This witness would reply he could not know but it would put more pressure onto Pistorius ordinary night defense.

 

[Val1]

Thank you. Mr Nel could have done with your help today. If the case is reopened you might like to offer him your services as you certainly make for much more understanding than Mr Lin.

I was going to suggest someone send him the post link to read, then he can pass it by his expert for confirmation and go from there.

 

[Val1]

I'm not trying to defend OP but this isn't an ordinary murder case.

It deals with a sports icon, one that was used to making millions and having fame thrown upon him.

As an athlete, his tools of the profession was his body and it had to be in tip top shape in terms of diet and rest. We see all the time in sports where athletes are thrown off the team because they come to training out of shape or overweight.

As an athlete, he has limited time to make as much money as possible before he is forced to retire because he is to old to compete.

That's why there was a lot of talk about I and me and it would put a lot of strain on any relationship he had.

They always say that someone can only be judged by their peers and I think the only people that would understand the pressures placed on OP would be other athletes.

bbm - How about a model who was about to enter reality tv stardom?

 

[Val1]

I think Viper has read the autobiography. Most of the Pistorius/defense team supporters here on WB seem to have copies or read it...probably enshrined it in gold, underlined with lipstick kisses and tears for his supersad story.

Great list of questions

- now that Van Zyl has offered himself up as character defender, I'd love to see him used as a Pistorius proxy. He's the financial advisor so he has to be grilled onto what '*****ty' things affected the defendants troubled mindset that shooting night. This is AS important as any GAD/hyper vigilance speculation, goes directly into possible 'un/reasonable' mindset.

- Questioning about Cassidy Memmory aggression incident and longstanding lawsuit that was being carried on throughout his work dealings with Pistorius.

- Questioning about Pistorius 'dignified' dealings with people next to questions about mysterious damage to house like the bath-tub hole, the pellet holes in bedroom door and significant damage to the doors. This witness would reply he could not know but it would put more pressure onto Pistorius ordinary night defense.

Reminding the judge of some of the "other" incidents and the damage to the house that all show an aptitude for violence certainly shouldn't hurt.

 

[Really?]

I'd imagine sponsorships come with very heavily worded get out clauses about bad publicity, bringing their name into disrepute etc as can be seen by the likes of Adidas 'reviewing' their sponsorship of Luis Suarez after his World Cup tapas tasting event.

I'm loving the agent so far. He seems to have an ego that's just begging to be taken apart by Nel. I particularly liked the chauvanistic approach that he didn't expect his arm to be grabbed by a frightened man when there was a loud noise.

exactly........I can't wait for tomorrow.......wake me up if I am not here by .......3 :30......thanks !

 

[vansleuths]

bbm - How about a model who was about to enter reality tv stardom?

I would never want to put down the deceased (Reeva), but if we look at it objectively,

1. Reeva was 29 years old and I did read that her modelling career wasn't really taking off.

2. In terms of being a reality TV star, is that really a TV star? Today, our TV channels are flooded with reality shows (Big Brother, Bachelor, Survivor, Hell's Kitchen, MasterChef, etc) and everyone that is anyone is a reality star. Most have their moment in the lime light and are not heard of after that.

Reeva was a beautiful and highly intelligent woman with a passion for woman's rights and I bet you that her future path would have been in the legal field, perhaps working on some aspect with woman's rights.

 

[vansleuths]

Would anyone know how many more defence witnesses are to come before the defence rests?

 

[Really?]

In the unlikely event Nel’s firm has an intern paid to read WS overnight…

1. As van Zyl did everything he could to avoid agreeing that Op was a reckless person it would be good to ask him about the Vaal boating river accident as it looks like OP lied under oath about April 7th 2013 saying sun was setting and affected his vision. Van Zyl held press conf about after the event. Does VZ remember he gave a comment which revealed real time of the crash as quoted
“We’re left pondering the words of Pistorius’ manager Peet van Zyl, to Beeld on 27 February 2009: “Die enigste fout wat hy gemaak het, was om na donker met ‘n boot op die water te wees” (The only mistake he made was to be in a boat on the water after dark)”
Further what advice did he give OP re avoiding future career threatening risky behaviour? Was VZ involved in dealings with Vanderbijlpark police once they had opened a case of reckless and negligent driving against Pistorius & re the allegations of drinking on boat at the time?

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2014-04-22-did-oscar-pistorius-lie-on-the-stand/#.U7MnYc25aeY

3. Nature, persons involved in business meeting 13.2.13 and if he was aware at the disappointment.
4. VZ’s perception of how OP was feeling re prospect of retirement- was he apprehensive?
5. Why was he called to the house post death and what happened, who did he speak to?
6. In the period between Op being taken into custody and later Oakley and Nike dropping him what were the nature of the business negotiations between all four parties. VZ would have been giving sponsors assurances initially based on what Op was actually telling him re intruder story etc. (ie VZ & OP must have spoken about the incident in more detail than he is saying)

Has any WS poster got the OP “autobiography”? Must be something in there?

Why unlikely......would not you do the same?....we have a wealth of astute thinkers here....Nel is smart.....he knows where good sleuthing is..:blushing:

 

[G.bng]

Would anyone know how many more defence witnesses are to come before the defence rests?

Google around because at least a month or so ago you could download the original of 2008 from a couple of free book depository sites. The only thing it doesn't include the added part that came out for the London Olympics. Oh, and it's called Dream Runner.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Sorry but this is really hard to believe.:moo: He was just evaluated.

VZ will be losing out monetarily in a big way if OP goes to prison so he's going to be over the top with his support. This of course will play very nicely into the hands of Nel who no doubt really wanted the early adjournment to rake up all the dirt he can, and sharpen his teeth even more. I think tonight should be really good. Can't wait.

 

[JudgeJudi]

OP would always call out "who is there?" when his agent knocked at the door .. how come, then, OP never called out "who is in there?" when he thought there was an intruder in his toilet (just to make sure it wasn't Reeva).

This should be something Nel raises today and I'll be gnashing my teeth if he doesn't. It would be a great point to ram home to Masipa and the assessors.

 

[Really?]

I would never want to put down the deceased (Reeva), but if we look at it objectively,

1. Reeva was 29 years old and I did read that her modelling career wasn't really taking off.

2. In terms of being a reality TV star, is that really a TV star? Today, our TV channels are flooded with reality shows (Big Brother, Bachelor, Survivor, Hell's Kitchen, MasterChef, etc) and everyone that is anyone is a reality star. Most have their moment in the lime light and are not heard of after that.

Reeva was a beautiful and highly intelligent woman with a passion for woman's rights and I bet you that her future path would have been in the legal field, perhaps working on some aspect with woman's rights.

I wonder how Iman would answer the modeling with age question. Reeve could have done anything in future. sadly, we will never know.

 

[G.bng]

Respectfully ✄ to address the point.

Has any WS poster got the OP “autobiography”? Must be something in there?

Google around because at least a month or so ago you could download the original of 2008 from a couple of free book depository sites. The only thing it doesn't include the added part that came out for the London Olympics. Oh, and it's called Dream Runner.

 

[vansleuths]

I wonder how Iman would answer the modeling with age question. Reeve could have done anything in future. sadly, we will never know.

There will always be exceptions to the rule and of course, models of all ages will be needed to pitch products to certain age groups and niches.

But, just Googling a bit, I found this

Model Age Range
For high fashion (i.e., the “catwalk ” type of fashion), the typical age range for fashion models tends to be from age 16 to 28, with the majority of the models being around 16 are 22 years old.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Exactly, he needed some comforting during the break from his sister..... his fame and fortune all lost now, I think never to be regained.

Good point, but absolutely unnecessary to include the bolded words IMO.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

I am no lawyer and I live in the U.S. I don't know the South African rules of court. I really, really wish we had a Sough African lawyer here.

BUT, I am pretty sure that in most courts in the U.S. that on cross exam, Nel would not be able to go beyond what was presented in Direct testimony. Unless there was some "door that was opened" so to speak.

Anyone here know how this works in South African courts?

 

[kittychi]

There will always be exceptions to the rule and of course, models of all ages will be needed to pitch products to certain age groups and niches.

But, just Googling a bit, I found this

Model Age Range
For high fashion (i.e., the “catwalk ” type of fashion), the typical age range for fashion models tends to be from age 16 to 28, with the majority of the models being around 16 are 22 years old.

All she needed was a good manager to keep her in the press (think "Kim Kardashian) and she needn't even have any talent.

My hunch is that Reeva would have ridden out the model scenario as far as it would go or until she got bored, and then would do something of substance with her law degree. She may have been on the way to making big money in her modeling career, at least temporarily. This could have helped her parents and also helped herself to establish whatever she wanted to do next.

 

[vansleuths]

All she needed was a good manager to keep her in the press (think "Kim Kardashian) and she needn't even have any talent.

My hunch is she would have ridden out the model scenario as far as it would go or until she got bored, and then would do something of substance with her law degree. She may have been on the way to making big money in her modeling career, at least temporarily. This could have helped her parents and also helped herself to establish whatever she wanted to do next.

Kim Kardashian's claim to fame was her x-rated movie that was released and her mom as her manager certainly wasn't against her kids showing off some skin.

In fact, she encouraged her now 18 year old Kendall Jenner to be a bit more risqué suggesting that whatever sexy shoots she does these days, she will look back on them decades later with affection when she is older and time has caught up with her.

 

[kittychi]

Er, wasn't that a little odd? OP called Reeva to tell her about the exciting travel treats, but then asked his manager to actually tell her, while he (presumably) stood back to watch her reaction?

Kinda like the condolence flowers to the Steenkamps being sent by his office.