Trial Discussion Thread #46 - 14.07.7, Day 37

[Freya1977]

Both getting angry :/

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[HauntsForHope]

This bugs me so much - Nel is asking if OP said he heard a magazine rack, and Dr says "yes." But Nel knows very well that OP said he assumed it was the magazine rack in hindsight - at the time of the incident, he thought it was the sound of the door opening.

Is the point to get at the truth or to trick witnesses into saying things that aren't accurate but are more favorable to the state's case?

I saw it more as 'what did OP tell 'YOU' he heard? Since he told a variety of versions.... jmo

 

[PrimeSuspect]

WD says he's not sure what the mag rack sound is like.

Derman says "I would assume someone inside the toilet would make that sound." Nel says he doesn't want assumptions.

I'm asking you what OP told you. It's got nothing to do with legal or physiological - Nel

What about the sound startled him, Nel asks. WD says the sound itself startled OP.

Nel getting very annoyed with WD who appears to be trying to avoid giving a direct answer. Nel asking WD if OP told him what caused mag rack to move. WD says OP didn't.

 

[zwiebel]

N: So we only had three - no other startle caused by the toilet door?

D: No milady.

 

[Freya1977]

Hmmm bit of semantics from Nel.

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[zwiebel]

N: If he said the 3rd sound caused by the toilet door, you would have remembered that?

D: Yes.

 

[minor4th]

Poor Nel, has to resort to confusion and trickery to try to make a point

 

[G.bng]

OMG, did Pistorius just admit to violating his bail conditions? If so, what's the best way to report this?


*********************************************
From Oscar Pistorius' bail hearing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JZB3pwgxvY
At 2 hours 26 minutes 43 seconds

Accused will refrain from prohibitive substances and/or alcohol until the conclusion of this case.

*********************************************
From Oscar Pistorius' psychiatric report by Dr. Scholtz
http://www.scribd.com/doc/232687105/Oscar-Pistorius-psychiatric-report#download
On Page 16, line 28

Mr. Pistorius feels he has been drinking more since the incident he is being charged for, mainly because he isn't in training.

*********************************************

The prohibition of alcohol is one of the conditions OP had waived when appealing the bail conditions a few weeks after the first bail judgement, so no, he didn't violate his bail condition.

 

[K.T]

Pistorius tries to convince the court:
1. South African’s are so danger aware they have to shoot at toilet sound.
2. People with mental disorders will shoot into toilets
3. People who showing a hint of hyper-vigilence will shoot at toilet sounds
4. People with diabilities startle like newborn fawns and will shoot at toilet sounds
5. Women – too loud with noises, too silent to talk, too scared to not hide away.

Pistorius’ defense, the sledgehammer over groups that fight daily for attention, respect, and against stereotypes.

“Pistorius always wanted to compete with the best sprinters in the world,” writes Rosenberg. “We should have viewed him that way. We should have realized he was fundamentally an elite, hyper-competitive athlete. In that context, his apparent crime is not as surprising.”
Exactly. Pistorius deserves to be treated like anybody else. That’s what he taught us on the way up. It’s what he’s teaching us on the way down, too.

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...ooting_disabled_people_commit_crimes_too.html

 

[PrimeSuspect]

IMO, Prof D is antagonizing Nel. No matter where Nel is going with the questioning, Prof D is goading Nel, that he is superior. Wasting time. I can't believe Judge Masipa is staying so quiet. jmo

 

[minor4th]

As a lawyer - I can tell you Dr D is doing exactly what we try to teach witnesses NOT to do ..to try to anticipate where the opposing counsel is going with his questioning or thinking trick questions are being asked. It just leads to defensiveness and second-guessing on the part of the witness. Not so good.

 

[zwiebel]

N: You know the accused goes to shooting ranges...those sounds would not startle him?

Nel mentions watermelon.

OH! Nel did something really clever then! Got D to 'tell' him defensively that someone would not necessarily be startled if they were expecting a sound, and Nel said "Good. That's what I wanted to hear.'

And goes back to 3rd sound in bathroom - 'So OP expected that sound?' (and therefore not startled?)

 

[JudgeJudi]

Bateman‏@barrybateman #OscarTrial Nel wants to know why Derman was not concerned about the details of this specific sound. BB

barrybateman · 2m

#OscarTrial Derman: can’t describe the sound the mag rack would make, he just knows that it’s the sound which startled him. BB

@barrybateman · 19s

#OscarTrial Nel: if he said he saw the door opening, you would have remembered that?
Derman provides an explanation about legal issues. BB

@barrybateman · 24s

#OscarTrial Derman: then says he does not remember it. Adding that he doesn’t know whether he would have remember it. BB

@barrybateman · 24s

#OscarTrial Derman: then says he does not remember it. Adding that he doesn’t know whether he would have remember it. BB


Barry Bateman @barrybateman · 38s

#OscarTrial Derman then confirms that Pistorius said nothing about seeing the toilet door opening. BB

@barrybateman · now

#OscarTrial Derman: confirms that Pistorius never said anything about the door making a sound. BB

 

[zwiebel]

D has fallen back on explanations of studies again, but I don't think it will undo the damage he just did.

 

[G.bng]

Somewhere in the last thread someone here said they emailed Nel's office directly about the "leaked video" -- AND they even received a reply stating he had it or had seen it or something.
If you can find that post, it may have the name of the office and/or his email address.

Please DO contact him with your info!

Prohibition of alcohol was lifted when OP appealed his bail conditions.

 

[Jake18]

Didn't OP only say the magazine rack was what made the noise when Nel was crossing him. Up to that point it was a wood on wood movement or am I not remembering correctly?

In the video it was a "screech".

 

[Greater Than]

Lecture time.......

 

[PrimeSuspect]

N: You know the accused goes to shooting ranges...those sounds would not startle him?

Nel mentions watermelon.

OH! Nel did something really clever then! Got D to 'tell' him defensively that someone would not necessarily be startled if they were expecting a sound, and Nel said "Good. That's what I wanted to hear.'

And goes back to 3rd sound in bathroom - 'So OP expected that sound?' (and therefore not startled?)

Phew, Nel, you're getting there.

 

[zwiebel]

N: At that time, we are already acting in terms of a startle, he's hypersensitive to what's going on high because of 2nd startle, so the next startle would not have effect on him?

Judge can't hear again.

D: Milady, Mr Nel is wrong. it's exactly the opposite.

 

[JudgeJudi]

@barrybateman · 21s

#OscarTrial Nel: at the shooting range the accused is not startled.
Derman: when you expect the sound you won’t be startled. BB

@barrybateman · 24s

#OscarTrial Derman: Nel: so back in the bathroom the accused knows there is someone in the toilet, why would he be startled? BB

@barrybateman · 16s

#OscarTrial Derman: answering by referring to a science experiment where test subjects are shocked. BB