Trial Discussion Thread #46 - 14.07.7, Day 37

[Chelly]

<mod snip>
Since I started this exchange upthread when inquiring if Derman was a doctor or a professor, here is a link. I am confused. How can he be a Chief Medical Officer and not an MD?
http://essm.uct.ac.za/accademic/prof-wayne-derman/

 

[Val1]

I am watching it right now at the Jerseyshore

O. M. G.

Anyone know if Reeva screamed like some/ most girls/women scream.

That really high octave type of scream.

I never could. I would most likely yell "fire" for attention.

Sorry, wanted to add that that particular ear piercing type of scream could not be confused with a screaming OP:jail:

Exactly, I'm pretty sure the "bloodcurdling" scream as was described by Burger iirc, was most surely not OP based on his cries in this production, besides the fact that the screams were heard before the last set of "bangs" and then never again. It's like the guy trying to call a 2x4 a bat-like "instrument" to simulate the bat used and then claim that that sound would carry as far as gunshots...

 

[Viper]

Since I started this exchange upthread when inquiring if Derman was a doctor or a professor, here is a link. I am confused. How can he be a Chief Medical Officer and not an MD?
http://essm.uct.ac.za/accademic/prof-wayne-derman/

He is both a doctor of medicine and a professor of medicine. The professor title comes in because he attained that through his work as a doctor at a teaching hospital instructing medical students, practicing medicine, his medical research, his being published for that research, and rising up from associate professor if he were in the US. It is a senior position, but I don't know that SA has the same rules related to it as in the US.

From your link: MBChB, University of Pretoria (1986)

Bachelor of medicine, bachelor of surgery, or in Latin: Medicinae in Gujarati (abbreviated in various ways, viz. MBBS or MBChB, MB BS, MB BChir, BM BCh, MB BCh, MB ChB, BM BS, BM, BMed etc.), are the two first professional undergraduate degrees awarded upon graduation from medical school inmedicine and surgery by universities in various countries that follow the tradition of the United Kingdom. The naming suggests that they are two separate degrees; however, in practice, they are usually treated as one and awarded together. In countries that follow the tradition of the United States, the degree is awarded as M.D. or D.O., which is a professional doctorate degree.[SUP][1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Medicine,_Bachelor_of_Surgery#South_Africa


[/SUP]

 

[luvmygarden]

Many thanks for providing this link Viper

IMO, that show was unbelievably biased… a lot of the facts presented were partially wrong, some totally incorrect… 90%+ of the airtime was dedicated to fallacious explanations about how OP had to be innocent of murder and how OP loved RS too much…!!!!!

This was obviously commissioned by OP… it was in the works for months prior to its airing… Evidence Room was mandated by OP to participate… the whole "illegally obtained", etc… is all bollocks.

Truly pathetic and shameful.

Thankfully I was able to watch the video on my tablet. At the end the commentator said this was not the advertised video with their apologies. So I found that very interesting. What a few crazy days this has been. I really appreciate all of you who keep me in the loop of this trial.

 

[Val1]

Thankfully I was able to watch the video on my tablet. At the end the commentator said this was not the advertised video with their apologies. So I found that very interesting. What a few crazy days this has been. I really appreciate all of you who keep me in the loop of this trial.

I wonder if the original one as depicted by the first preview clip some of us saw was replaced with this obviously crafted version by the DT?

 

[minor4th]

So, I watched the video finally - he cannot move that fast and he definitely has balance problems on his stumps. I can see why he would have thought he could not have fled the bedroom safely on his stumps.

ETA: Other than that the show was kind of lame - speculation and some inaccuracies and omissions here and there.

I can't believe the Aus channel broadcast those clips while the trial was still going on

 

[AJ_DS]

I wonder if the original one as depicted by the first preview clip some of us saw was replaced with this obviously crafted version by the DT?

My understanding was that the broadcast that had been planned and announced for sunday (which had nothing to do with OP's trial) was replaced by this special exclusive broadcast 48 hours prior to the airing.

So there was no "original OP broadcast" &#8230; there was an "original broadcast" about something else (like the purchase of F-35 fighter planes) that was replaced by what we saw.

So there was never 2 distinct broadcasts about OP.

Not really sure I have clearly expressed myself&#8230; but it's late

 

[Viper]

So, I watched the video finally - he cannot move that fast and he definitely has balance problems on his stumps. I can see why he would have thought he could not have fled the bedroom safely on his stumps.

RSBM

But Minor, he did feel that he could attack and kill Mr. Armed Intruder "safely" on his stumps. Right? Putative self defense, have you forgotten?

 

[minor4th]

So 26 seconds to put his socks and legs on in the light of day - if he really thought there was an intruder in the bathroom, he wouldn't take 26 seconds to put on his legs while he thinks an armed bad guy is coming to hurt him and Reeva

 

[minor4th]

But Minor, he did feel that he could attack and kill Mr. Armed Intruder "safely" on his stumps. Right? Putative self defense, have you forgotten?

Well, since he was on his stumps, I guess he thought his chances of living through the encounter were better if he armed himself and stopped the bad guy. Yes, putative self defense. And yes, I think he intentionally fired at the toilet to shoot the person he thought was a burglar coming out.

 

[wb180]

So 26 seconds to put his socks and legs on in the light of day - if he really thought there was an intruder in the bathroom, he wouldn't take 26 seconds to put on his legs while he thinks an armed bad guy is coming to hurt him and Reeva

So he can't move that fast and definitely has balance problems so he decides to move right into bathroom and shoot (how long did that take btw - around 26 seconds or more? ). Right...

(Oh, and that's leaving aside all the third party testimonies.)

 

[Viper]

Well, since he was on his stumps, I guess he thought his chances of living through the encounter were better if he armed himself and stopped the bad guy. Yes, putative self defense. And yes, I think he intentionally fired at the toilet to shoot the person he thought was a burglar coming out.

BIB But that is not what he says. He said that he did not fire at anyone. And he said that if he had wanted to shoot the intruder he would have shot at the right hand side of the door, above the handle. :notmakingsense:

 

[vanatos]

Pistorus' version has always been impossible, you flat out don't rush out to kill a sound you hear in the night when you have people sleeping over (Reeva) and you have long life history of sleeping with people (ie family, past girlfriends).

From basic logic, the natural reaction of hearing a sound in the bathroom when you have people sleeping in your house with you, is to think its that person.

Him moving from the balcony->gun->toilet without knowing where Reeva is,is also improbable, he is circling around his bed, he would have seen Reeva, especially from his version that Reeva asked him is he having trouble sleeping or something to that affect.

Finally, in his version he is looking at the door, telling the person to Get the F-out, then shooting, that is clear intention to kill, you are not even warning the person, ask to identify who it is, warn you are armed etc.

 

[AJ_DS]

So, I watched the video finally - he cannot move that fast and he definitely has balance problems on his stumps. I can see why he would have thought he could not have fled the bedroom safely on his stumps.

1. OP knows very well that less balance = more vulnerable = better Defence&#8230; so it's to his benefit not to fully demonstrate his 'real' capabilities. It's as if to convict, the State alleges the accused lifted 75kg but the accused demonstrates that the most he can lift is 50kg&#8230; how does one go about disproving the physical capabilities displayed by the accused ?&#8230; impossible task.

2. Someone a while back had posted a video of OP as a child running around and playing.

3. OP has a lot more balance when he is moving rapidly than when he is moving slowly or standing still&#8230; as stated by Dr.D it would be indeed quite difficult for OP to balance himself and remain perfectly still on a shifting platform scale without holding on to anything&#8230; this is static balance which is much more difficult than dynamic balance... therefore, slowly stalking an intruder would be far more difficult for OP than simply fleeing.

4. OP had a gun whether fighting or fleeing&#8230; OP would surely have been less vulnerable fleeing with a gun than confronting an unknown threat with a gun.

5. OP had Reeva, a fully abled person, to assist him should the need arise.

6. OP has less balance and therefore is more vulnerable in the dark&#8230; OP shouted at the intruders to get out and for Reeva to call the police&#8230; OP was therefore not concerned with keeping his and Reeva's presence hidden from the intruders&#8230; in fact, the only reason OP would scream these things is to alert the intruder of his presence and awareness of their presence so as to encourage them to flee&#8230; turning on a light would have taken 2 seconds, would have reinforced his message to the intruders and would made OP less vulnerable by giving him greater balance and greater mobility&#8230; yet OP chose to confront an unknown threat in pitch darkness.

This list could go on&#8230; but I'm tired

 

[Viper]

I timed it. If OP was in a burning building, he could don his prosthetics, without the socks, in 6 seconds. Or he could just get the [blank] out of there in zero seconds. Take your pick. But donning his socks before his prosthetics is a canard.

 

[Greater Than]

So 26 seconds to put his socks and legs on in the light of day - if he really thought there was an intruder in the bathroom, he wouldn't take 26 seconds to put on his legs while he thinks an armed bad guy is coming to hurt him and Reeva

If he truly felt as vulnerable on his stumps as he claims, I think he most definitely would take the 26 seconds to put his legs on first.

Wish they would've timed him bending down on his stumps, retrieving the gun from under the bed, standing back up, taking off the holster, and removing the safety latch. Bet it takes longer than 26 seconds.

 

[minor4th]

Well, obviously we all see things differently :lol:

 

[wb180]

If he truly felt as vulnerable on his stumps as he claims, I think he most definitely would take the 26 seconds to put his legs on first.

Wish they would've timed him bending down on his stumps, retrieving the gun from under the bed, standing back up, taking off the holster, and removing the safety latch. Bet it takes longer than 26 seconds.

Agreed. So much smoke and mirrors. DT is trying to argue all sides to get OP out.

 

[minor4th]

If he truly felt as vulnerable on his stumps as he claims, I think he most definitely would take the 26 seconds to put his legs on first.

Wish they would've timed him bending down on his stumps, retrieving the gun from under the bed, standing back up, taking off the holster, and removing the safety latch. Bet it takes longer than 26 seconds.

Ok, so he takes 26 seconds to put his legs on - by that time the armed bad guy is 10 feet from him and has a gun pointed at him. Still vulnerable. Arming himself was the safer course to protect his life. (If there had been an intruder as he believed ...)

 

[AJ_DS]

I timed it. If OP was in a burning building, he could don his prosthetics, without the socks, in 6 seconds. Or he could just get the [blank] out of there in zero seconds. Take your pick. But donning his socks before his prosthetics is a canard.

Indeed.

The stump-socks gives OP a snug fit in his prosthetics which prevents blisters when wearing them for extended periods of time.

However, in a life and death situation, adrenaline pumping, OP would not care about possible blisters, a bit of pain, a snug fit, etc&#8230; the main thing on his mind would be I need to be myself : tall, strong, agile and mobile.

I believe 6 seconds is generous&#8230; he just has to pick them up and slide the stumps in&#8230; it's faster than putting on shoes.