Trial Discussion Thread #47 - 14.07.8, Day 38

[AJ_DS]

Sorry for this dumb question but I have to ask..
OP is on his prosthesis legs on the photos taken in his garage but still his height is as if on his stumps abt 1.50-1.55 mt.. What am I missing lol ?

It's a visual distortion… the angle of the camera, the overhead lighting, the light torso with dark shorts… all contribute to give that impression

 

[jslk]

Are you sure the swipe feature for airplane mode was available before iOS 7?

OP would most likely have been on iOS 6 at the time he killed Reeva.

That's a good point, there's the reason I'm a newbie at all this!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jillondon]

If RS tweeted OP on New Years Eve, that means they were not together ?!?

This is the first time I've posted so not sure how this will come out.

I love your timelines AJ_DS. I did look at Reeva's Twitter account a while ago, which is why I couldn't understand people talking about a 3 month intense relationship. I also didn't understand all the messages between them saying that they missed each other and "boo" and "angel" etc but if you could see their diaries then it would seem that they were never together except for "red carpet events".

I can't remember the details now so please don't be hard on me. I'm just giving you a taster so that you look into it deeper. IIRC they met on 4/5 November. She went to Jamaica from 12 to 25 November to film Tropika. She was alone from 25 December to 1st January whilst OP was on holiday in Cape Town. She joined him on 1st January to about 6/7 January and then it looks like Martyn Rooney arrived and they all returned to Pretoria. I think Martyn stayed with OP until 9 February. OP also went to (I think) Dubai at some point in January.

And then of course as soon as they were alone together ... he killed her.

 

[4MrsB]

This is the first time I've posted so not sure how this will come out.

I love your timelines AJ_DS. I did look at Reeva's Twitter account a while ago, which is why I couldn't understand people talking about a 3 month intense relationship. I also didn't understand all the messages between them saying that they missed each other and "boo" and "angel" etc but if you could see their diaries then it would seem that they were never together except for "red carpet events".

I can't remember the details now so please don't be hard on me. I'm just giving you a taster so that you look into it deeper. IIRC they met on 4/5 November. She went to Jamaica from 12 to 25 November to film Tropika. She was alone from 25 December to 1st January whilst OP was on holiday in Cape Town. She joined him on 1st January to about 6/7 January and then it looks like Martyn Rooney arrived and they all returned to Pretoria. I think Martyn stayed with OP until 9 February. OP also went to (I think) Dubai at some point in January.

And then of course as soon as they were alone together ... he killed her.

Welcome! :happydance:

Thanks for the timeline info. I had been wondering what the actual dates where of filming Tropika as well as the dates they were actually both in the same part of the country during the 3 months after they started dating.

OP states in interviews (and I think testimony) that their relationship really started to develop beginning in Jan.

If this is so...why does he imply "they (OP & RS) were buying a house together in J'burg"? I think he signed the beginning paperwork (started "Escrow" as we refer to it in the US) for that purchase in Dec 2012. Doesn't sound like the dating really even got off the ground until Jan 2013, before that their careers & prev plans had kept them busy in different locations.

I would LOVE to know the complete timeline between the date they met in Nov through the end of Dec. how much time did they actually spend together before Jan 2013?

Thanks again for all the info you provided during that period of time...very helpful, and peaks my interest even more.

 

[AJ_DS]

This is the first time I've posted so not sure how this will come out.

I love your timelines AJ_DS. I did look at Reeva's Twitter account a while ago, which is why I couldn't understand people talking about a 3 month intense relationship. I also didn't understand all the messages between them saying that they missed each other and "boo" and "angel" etc but if you could see their diaries then it would seem that they were never together except for "red carpet events".

I can't remember the details now so please don't be hard on me. I'm just giving you a taster so that you look into it deeper. IIRC they met on 4/5 November. She went to Jamaica from 12 to 25 November to film Tropika. She was alone from 25 December to 1st January whilst OP was on holiday in Cape Town. She joined him on 1st January to about 6/7 January and then it looks like Martyn Rooney arrived and they all returned to Pretoria. I think Martyn stayed with OP until 9 February. OP also went to (I think) Dubai at some point in January.

And then of course as soon as they were alone together ... he killed her.

Thanks !!

Very interesting and informative Jillondon !!!… Thanks

I would encourage you to build your own timeline of when OP and RS were NOT together and NOT alone… I suspect the result would be very revealing.

Perhaps the boo's, baba's and angel's were not so indicative after all.

I suspect that OP's and RS's entourage may have encouraged them to pursue and accelerate their relationship because they made a cute very marketable power couple.


… and of course... :welcome6:

You should definitely post more !!

 

[4MrsB]

I don't understand why there was all the speculation about 'leaks' over the video .. if Roder owns the company who made the animation, and he featured in the Sunday Night programme .. then how can the videos have been 'leaked' .. from what I can see (I may be wrong) but if he willingly took part in the programme, then he must also have provided them with the video footage too (whether or not that was in agreement, or even asked to do so by the DT, I have no idea but he clearly must've worked with the Sunday Night programme makers in making this programme because he himself features pretty heavily in it!) Maybe I've misunderstood something, somewhere ...

I'm no lawyer, but I assume either the defense or Uncle Arnold hired Evidence Room/Roder's company to provide a service...video tape OP reenactments, use it to then also provide animation of the reenactment or whatever video type footage might assist the defense team (or public or Judge) in bringing clarity to what happened that morning, and the reason's for OP's actions.

However, by paying for these services, Uncle Arnold or defense would insist on a strict non-disclosure agreement, which would mean OP (or team) owns all rights to this footage, including any animation developed by Roder. Their paycheck (and signed agreement) paid for these rights.

I recently took some old 8mm films from my parents wedding day & from our childhood to a company that converted them to DVD's, added music in the background, etc. When I handed the 8mm films over I signed some basic piece of paper provided by this company. I am sure it stated that this company, even though they are doing all the work to convert these films over to DVDs, have NO RIGHT to sell it's contents, release my DVD footage on the Internet or anywhere else. It's my property - both 8mm films and newly developed DVDs. Of course I should probably read the fine print next time, but I think this is pretty standard. The OP team however was dealing with criminal homicide charges and an upcoming trial, "all lawyered up", so they would have been quite clear before any filming took place, what the legal agreement was and who owned the rights to what.

 

[foxbluff]

Where can I view the Aussie tape of OP in his stumps?

I'm still running pages behind playing catchup, but just in case your Q hasn't been answered the re-enactment vid is on Pg. 17 - Post#401.

O/T - Btw, just FYI to newbies: sometimes the location of items of particular interest can be found in the TAGS at the bottom of each page.

 

[geevee]

I'm watching March 14th testimony with van Rensburg during cross, Roux asks him who else was at the house when he met OP in the kitchen and took him to the garage, van Rensburg says OP told him he and Reeva were alone in the house and Roux asks him who else was there, he goes through the people and not once is Frank mentioned. I can't figure why it's never mentioned that they weren't "alone in the house" if Frank was in his room and was seen outside when people began arriving after the shooting. I know this subject has been discussed quite a bit but I still find it stunning Frank is like a ghost to everyone involved.

 

[foxbluff]

It's always been something i have found very very odd, he meets this beautiful girl, apparently falls madly in love with her, she's the one the love of his life etc, they are looking at house's together.
Now you would think given all that, he would really go to town for valentine's day, especially given the fact that he's a very wealthy man, but yet it's clear that he had done nothing, not even a card.

Mea Culpa!

My puzzling post of yesterday (Pg. 20, Post#487) "Pretty transparent, is it not!?" should have quoted this post of James's.

(I did an "ETA" explaining who I was replying to, but it mysteriously disappeared.) Grrh...

 

[Interested Bystander]

This frustrates me so much if true: (regarding Roux hinting at appeal as a 'number' of witnesses did not testify due to media)

Criminal law experts believe the move is critical to keeping Pistorius out of prison if he is convicted. It tries to show that he has been prejudiced from the beginning of proceedings and prevented from getting a fair trial.

Professor Anthony Minnaar, of the Unisa school of criminology, said the strategy was clear and "transparent".

"It is to keep all options open for appeal . [An] appeal could very well be successful as Pistorius's defence team will be able to show that not all evidence has been heard as certain witnesses were too 'afraid' to testify.

"If they are successful in applying for an appeal, a whole new case will have to be made as the entire case will have to be taken up on review," he said.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2014/07/09/oscar-keeps-all-options-open

Like you, I hope it is untrue.

What it says to me is that Roux is expecting a guilty verdict and taking this route smacks of desperation.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I'm watching March 14th testimony with van Rensburg during cross, Roux asks him who else was at the house when he met OP in the kitchen and took him to the garage, van Rensburg says OP told him he and Reeva were alone in the house and Roux asks him who else was there, he goes through the people and not once is Frank mentioned. I can't figure why it's never mentioned that they weren't "alone in the house" if Frank was in his room and was seen outside when people began arriving after the shooting. I know this subject has been discussed quite a bit but I still find it stunning Frank is like a ghost to everyone involved.

Yep, we all find this really weird. I thought he should have been compelled to be a witness. I am sure Nel could have squeezed him until his eyes watered.:tantrum:

 

[foxbluff]

I'm no lawyer, but I assume either the defense or Uncle Arnold hired Evidence Room/Roder's company to provide a service...video tape OP reenactments, use it to then also provide animation of the reenactment or whatever video type footage might assist the defense team (or public or Judge) in bringing clarity to what happened that morning, and the reason's for OP's actions.

However, by paying for these services, Uncle Arnold or defense would insist on a strict non-disclosure agreement, which would mean OP (or team) owns all rights to this footage, including any animation developed by Roder. Their paycheck (and signed agreement) paid for these rights.

I recently took some old 8mm films from my parents wedding day & from our childhood to a company that converted them to DVD's, added music in the background, etc. When I handed the 8mm films over I signed some basic piece of paper provided by this company. I am sure it stated that this company, even though they are doing all the work to convert these films over to DVDs, have NO RIGHT to sell it's contents, release my DVD footage on the Internet or anywhere else. It's my property - both 8mm films and newly developed DVDs. Of course I should probably read the fine print next time, but I think this is pretty standard. The OP team however was dealing with criminal homicide charges and an upcoming trial, "all lawyered up", so they would have been quite clear before any filming took place, what the legal agreement was and who owned the rights to what.

BBM - This exactly describes what I would have expected to take place. Your analogy imo is spot on!

 

[Val1]

So, closing arguments are scheduled but a long way off, and I can barely wait. In all the drama, let's not forget, nobody is still even sure what the defence is going to be!

There are 3 issues which IMO are insurmountable:

- OP said, repeatedly and actually very clearly, that he did not intend to fire the shots. Rather, he painted a pictured of hearing a noise, thinking he was under attack, and undergoing an uncontrollable fear response. This closes off putative self defence - in terms of a judgement at least - and leaves involuntary action. But no evidence has been offered to prove such a response encompassing four shots is possible, even Derman said "why he fired is a question for Mr Pistorius".

- OP said he was shouting in front of the toilet door "get out!" This renders illogical his evidence that he believed he was under attack when he heard what he thought was the door opening

- OP never once considered or checked that it might have been Reeva, despite it being the simple sound of the window opening, despite her being awake, despite no response, and despite - as he is now at pains to prove, paradoxically - it being entirely possible and plausible for it to have been her, what with the time elapsed, back turned, loud fans, darkness etc

JMO, would love to hear what others think!

bbm - Despite that he was very certain there was "someone" in the toilet room, he still knowingly(he said he remembers firing in quick succession, though the actual number of shots was what he'd read and "reconstructed") fired multiple shots into the toilet room door at a height that even a child would have been hit and likely killed.

 

[Val1]

I'm no lawyer, but I assume either the defense or Uncle Arnold hired Evidence Room/Roder's company to provide a service...video tape OP reenactments, use it to then also provide animation of the reenactment or whatever video type footage might assist the defense team (or public or Judge) in bringing clarity to what happened that morning, and the reason's for OP's actions.

However, by paying for these services, Uncle Arnold or defense would insist on a strict non-disclosure agreement, which would mean OP (or team) owns all rights to this footage, including any animation developed by Roder. Their paycheck (and signed agreement) paid for these rights.

I recently took some old 8mm films from my parents wedding day & from our childhood to a company that converted them to DVD's, added music in the background, etc. When I handed the 8mm films over I signed some basic piece of paper provided by this company. I am sure it stated that this company, even though they are doing all the work to convert these films over to DVDs, have NO RIGHT to sell it's contents, release my DVD footage on the Internet or anywhere else. It's my property - both 8mm films and newly developed DVDs. Of course I should probably read the fine print next time, but I think this is pretty standard. The OP team however was dealing with criminal homicide charges and an upcoming trial, "all lawyered up", so they would have been quite clear before any filming took place, what the legal agreement was and who owned the rights to what.

Agreed, however, you will often find some obscure clause as to who actually owns the film of something filmed by another party, in this case the Evidence Room, though that's not to say they hadn't signed some waiver saying they wouldn't release the footage on that film before the end of the trial, if ever. I haven't seen any proof as yet of any of it, only representatives of OP and SN7 making verbal claims. ie.anything we post on many sites becomes "their" property.

 

[foxbluff]

I'm watching March 14th testimony with van Rensburg during cross, Roux asks him who else was at the house when he met OP in the kitchen and took him to the garage, van Rensburg says OP told him he and Reeva were alone in the house and Roux asks him who else was there, he goes through the people and not once is Frank mentioned. I can't figure why it's never mentioned that they weren't "alone in the house" if Frank was in his room and was seen outside when people began arriving after the shooting. I know this subject has been discussed quite a bit but I still find it stunning Frank is like a ghost to everyone involved.

BBM - Believe me I'm not defending how invisible Frank seems to be in this case. However, since Frank was in the yard when police first entered OP's home, then van Rensburg's answer would have been correct... idk...lol

 

[AJ_DS]

There are many DND apps out there… I've read up on it and found many that can be easily configured to do the following :

- Preset start and end time of DND e.g. from 11PM to 5AM DND mode automatically turns ON

- Stops all incoming 'stuff' i.e. incoming phone calls, SMS, emails, 'everything' including automatic updates… phone is basically in airplane mode for all intents and purposes

- If user touches the phone during preset DND schedule i.e. makes the phone get out of sleep mode… this indicates that the user wishes to use the phone, DND mode automatically turns OFF

- If the phone goes back into sleep mode during preset DND schedule i.e. user is no longer using the phone… DND mode automatically turns ON

- Many additional features e.g. block everything incoming except from girlfriend and/or best friend and/or mom and/or security

Sam Taylor stated that OP always took his personal phone with him wherever he went, even to the bathroom.
Sam Taylor stated that OP always charged his personal phone in the bedroom
We all saw the tell-tale white Apple charging cable dangling from the amplifier in OP's bedroom

When OP got up to investigate the noise RS had made downstairs in the kitchen, he unplugged his phone and took it with him… this made the DND app believe OP wanted to use the phone so it automatically turned OFF the DND mode.

This was at 01:48:48… since the phone had not received anything incoming for the past 3 hours because DND was active, the server dumped everything it had in its queue for OP's personal phone at that time… this explains why the GPRS connection lasted so long : 5 minutes 9 seconds… there was a lot of things to transfer.

OP did not use the phone at that time… that's why no calls were logged and nothing appeared in application data as being sent by OP.

OP just put his phone in his pocket… after a few minutes of inactivity by the user, the phone went back into sleep mode and the DND automatically turned back ON again.

…. arguing with RS between 2AM and 3AM…. OP shoots RS

Now OP wants/needs to call someone… so he reaches in his pocket to grab his phone and starts looking in his contacts for Johan Stander's number...the DND app saw OP wanted to use the phone so it automatically turned OFF the DND mode.

This was at 03:18:45...the phone had not received anything incoming for the past hour… again the server dumped everything it had on his phone… since there wasn't as much the GPRS only lasted for 1 minute 15 seconds.

OP found Johan Stander's number, he dialed it and the call began at 03:19:03… this means it took approximately 18 seconds for OP to get his phone out of sleep mode, access contacts, find Johan Stander's number plus the phone to dial the number and connect the call.

...FOLLOW UP…

Some have indicated that a DND app CANNOT do what I have stated… that the ONLY possibility is putting the phone manually in and out of Airplane mode… I believe that is incorrect.

Why I don't believe OP used the Airplane mode :

1. It's a hassle… you have to remember to toggle it at least twice a day

2. In case of an emergency one would not want to fumble in the settings to deactivate AIrplane mode

3. To explain OP's phone behavior :

A. When hearing the noise downstairs but before investigating it, OP would have had to turn OFF Airplane mode to allow the start of the GPRS download

B. OP would have had NOT to turn back ON the Airplane mode for at least 5 minutes because GPRS latest 5 minutes

C. After investigating the noise and possibly started arguing with RS, OP would have had to turn back ON the Airplane mode

D. After shooting RS but before calling Stander, OP would have had to turn back OFF the Airplane mode


…this does not seem very likely to me.


So what can account for OP's phone behavior and do everything I stated ?

The answer is... SBSchedule … This iPhone app allows :

- the user to fully take control of ALL of the phones functions : SSH, Bluetooth, Push, 3G, Location, Wi-Fi, EDGE, Phone, SMS, etc…

- the user to set multiple automatic and/or manual schedules with multiple settings scenarios

- the user to bypass these schedule setting scenarios simply by taking the phone out of sleep mode

- the phone to reinstate automatically these schedule settings scenarios when the phone goes back into sleep mode

Basically, SBSchedule lets the user have a schedulable, highly customizable, user-aware Airplane mode.

Here is a video that briefly explains some of the various functions of SBSchedule : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ssdXbbi1h8

Cheers !

 

[foxbluff]

Yep, we all find this really weird. I thought he should have been compelled to be a witness. I am sure Nel could have squeezed him until his eyes watered.:tantrum:

BBM - You're a hoot! I expect you're right about Nel. However, regardless of how hard Nel squeezed, I don't believe he would have gotten anymore than "I don't know. I was asleep." And upon waking up "I didn't hear anything."

 

[eimajjjj]

Finally got round to watching the Sunday show. First off, I genuinely can't be sure if Roder is believing OP or pretending to. Secondly, no WAY can those polls be accurate. Every poll I've read on the web has about 95% to 5%. Someone mentioned you could vote twice but that doesn't mean the guilty advocates are less likely to press more than once.

It was incredibly bias to the defence, incredibly.

 

[foxbluff]

Sorry for this dumb question but I have to ask..
OP is on his prosthesis legs on the photos taken in his garage but still his height is as if on his stumps abt 1.50-1.55 mt.. What am I missing lol ? View attachment 54678

Egads !! I'm trying to remove my response as it may have been the opposite of what I should have said... I need more sleep at night!

 

[Interested Bystander]

Finally got round to watching the Sunday show. First off, I genuinely can't be sure if Roder is believing OP or pretending to. Secondly, no WAY can those polls be accurate. Every poll I've read on the web has about 95% to 5%. Someone mentioned you could vote twice but that doesn't mean the guilty advocates are less likely to press more than once.

It was incredibly bias to the defence, incredibly.

I agree. I thought his eye contact was not constant with the interviewer/camera, which can happen when somebody lies, though it does not always indicate this. A shifty individual IMO. There was something about his body language that wasn't quite right.

Now where is the member who has trained in FACE. This is micro expression evaluation. I am sure she would be able to throw some light on the guy.