Trial Discussion Thread #48

[AJ_DS]

Which houses of those who testified can we see on that photo?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Which houses of those who testified can we see on that photo?

287 is the neighbour who OP introduced Reeva to as his fiancee. Mike Nhlegenthwa

285 Rica (?) Motshuane

180 Estelle Van der Merwe

191 Dr Johan and Annette Stipp

284 ??




EDIT: lol AJ, beat me to it

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-recap-updates-3391035

 

[DebinGA]

Makes sense… servants quarters are usually found near the kitchen.

So it would be like this :

View attachment 55997

OP's heavily treed lot seems to offer much more opportunity for intruders to hide from view than neighboring houses. Not at all what a genuinely fearful person would choose.

 

[Cherwell]

I have a question for anyone who understands how the legal process works:

If Oscar is found guilty of Murder (the judge rules out that he intentionally killed Reeva, but finds him guilty of murdering whoever was in the toilet) what could happen if he decides to appeal? I understand that his conviction could be reduced to one of Culpable Homicide or even acquittal, but could Premeditated Murder be put back on the table? Could it be dangerous for him to appeal a lesser charge?

BIB The identity of the victim is irrelevant to the charge of murder. It makes no difference to the Court that the victim was Reeva.

 

[AJ_DS]

OP's heavily treed lot seems to offer much more opportunity for intruders to hide from view than neighboring houses. Not at all what a genuinely fearful person would choose.

Yes, but the house has a wall all around the property isolating it from other properties an common areas…

plus the house has 2 dogs, one small and nervous, the other large and dangerous…

plus the house has a live-in man servant…

plus the house has an alarm system equipped with outside sensors and lights...

plus the house is located in a small highly guarded fenced estate with 4 security guards patrolling…

plus the owner is armed with a handgun…

… so some trees are no biggie IMO

 

[AJ_DS]

BIB The identity of the victim is irrelevant to the charge of murder. It makes no difference to the Court that the victim was Reeva.

Agreed BUT if Masipa concludes that OP knew he was shooting at Reeva (and not some imagined intruder) then it is an aggravating factor that will have repercussion on the sentence handed down.

 

[Cherwell]

Never heard a mention of the people who live directly opposite. Perhaps they weren't there that night.

Does anybody else find OP's house incredibly ugly? I find it hard to imagine somebody deliberately designing such a heap. If these houses were toys or models, OP's looks like somebody accidentally stepped on it.

 

[AJ_DS]

View attachment 55999

287 is the neighbour who OP introduced Reeva to as his fiancee. Mike Nhlegenthwa

285 Rica (?) Motshuane

180 Estelle Van der Merwe

191 Dr Johan and Annette Stipp

284 ??




EDIT: lol AJ, beat me to it

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-recap-updates-3391035

Wonder who was in 284, what they saw/heard and why they did not testify ?

 

[Cherwell]

Agreed BUT if Masipa concludes that OP knew he was shooting at Reeva (and not some imagined intruder) then it is an aggravating factor that will have repercussion on the sentence handed down.

Of course.

 

[AJ_DS]

Never heard a mention of the people who live directly opposite. Perhaps they weren't there that night.

Does anybody else find OP's house incredibly ugly? I find it hard to imagine somebody deliberately designing such a heap. If these houses were toys or models, OP's looks like somebody accidentally stepped on it.

Indeed… but not only OP's house… the only house with some character IMO is EDVM's house

 

[jay-jay]

I suppose it is too late now but if Roux knew about it and also knew who took it, or had access to it, I think he too deserves a public ticking off from the judge and if members of the Pistorius family were involved with taking the phone AND Reeva's handbag (as we think) they too need to be hauled up in front of the beak.

.. absolutely .. and it's a bit more important than a missing extension lead! (that they already have pretty good photographic evidence of, anyway).

 

[jay-jay]

Never heard a mention of the people who live directly opposite. Perhaps they weren't there that night.

Does anybody else find OP's house incredibly ugly? I find it hard to imagine somebody deliberately designing such a heap. If these houses were toys or models, OP's looks like somebody accidentally stepped on it.

Yes, I also find it ugly .. and it looks pretty cheaply built, too. I was surprised to read that it was sold for around the equivalent of £250K .. well, in the south of England, that would get you a small, two bedroomed, terraced house .. so in terms of monetary value of property, he is no more well off than the majority of people here in the SE. I can't believe the size of his bedroom, either, it's no bigger than mine!

 

[jay-jay]

Agreed BUT if Masipa concludes that OP knew he was shooting at Reeva (and not some imagined intruder) then it is an aggravating factor that will have repercussion on the sentence handed down.

Yes, he would also be guilty of committing perjury too, so that would have to be taken into account.

 

[jay-jay]

View attachment 56000

.. actually, when you see the houses from that perspective, the Stipps are really not that far away at all, are they (especially from the back of OP's house, where the bathroom is). Plus you can see exactly how it is in direct line of vision, as that part of OP's house is on the diagonal, lining up with the front of the Stipp's house.

 

[eimajjjj]

If you think about it, EVDM's evidence is probably even more damning than the Stipps' and Burgers'. With the latter, the defence can try their 'man-screams-like-a-woman' absurdity but with EVDM, if there was no evidence of anyone else in that vicinity arguing at 1 in the morning, then it has to be attributed to OP if you take into the totality of the PT's case. The defence have only two options with this evidence: prove EVDM was delusional that night or prove there were other people arguing. They have done neither.

 

[kaos]

Never heard a mention of the people who live directly opposite. Perhaps they weren't there that night.

Does anybody else find OP's house incredibly ugly? I find it hard to imagine somebody deliberately designing such a heap. If these houses were toys or models, OP's looks like somebody accidentally stepped on it.

Me too but what is laughable is that OP said he asked for double doors for wheelchair users yet they were expected to use the stairs to access those double doors and then wouldn't have been able to access the toilet.

 

[Greater Than]

Hi Greater Than... check out my summary for that day. It includes how Oscar responded when questioned about the phones. Of course it involves that pesky, selective memory loss again :facepalm:

https://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/04/14/oscar-trial-day-22-part-1-oscar/

Thanks Lisa. I know it has been said before, but your blog is such a great resource. It's so thorough, and you have clearly put a lot if time and effort into it. We appreciate it.

BIB - Yes, selective memory loss seemed to be a very convenient tool for him when he didn't have a reasonable explanation for something. It happened too many times to be coincidental. He had a highly accurate memory with very specific detail about some things, and then no memory at all when he was put in a tough spot.

 

[Greater Than]

Lisa,
I've pasted the paragraph below from the link to your blog (hope you don't mind).

'The first time he hit the door he was screaming. He hit the frame of the door and got a shock. He wanted to hit the door a little more on the left (I think he meant right) because he thought if Reeva is inside he didn’t want the plank to hit her. He hit the door and it broke. '

I've always been totally amazed that he could be so insensitive to Reevas family by stating that he didn't want the plank to hit her after he's already blasted her 4 times with those type of bullets...............incredible !!

Something else I've just realised while viewing the bathroom photos on your site.
Has it ever been mentioned about the fact there are bloody towels on the bathroom floor next to the gun and the cricket bat etc?
I can't remember OP saying anything about trying to stop the bleeding in the bathroom so why are they there covered in blood ?

BIB - He said he laid her head on a towel in the bathroom after he pulled her out of the toilet.

 

[kaos]

BIB - He said he laid her head on a towel in the bathroom after he pulled her out of the toilet.

I thought he said "carpet" meaning the bath mat.

 

[Greater Than]

2 basic possibilities :

1. OP did NOT plant the 4949 phone… something happened that night which led the phone to end up in the bathroom… e.g. Reeva grabbed it downstairs when fleeing from OP and brought it upstairs in the bathroom before OP shot her… it ended up under a towel and OP did not realize the 4949 phone in the bathroom would be a problem in his version of events

2. OP did plant the 4949 phone… in a panicked state, trying to cover up a crime scene, one does stupid things that end up doing more harm than good… in this case it did all harm and no good.

The State has from Vodacom the detailed billing of the phone… and all the internet activity is logged not only in the phone's application data but also on the social media server and the recipient's phone application data and the recipient's detailed billing… so it's not an easy thing to completely 'disappear' a phone or something incriminating on said phone.

BIB - Yeah, but let's not forget that OP didn't make it very easy for them to access the contents of the data in his phone. Not only did he keep it for 10 days, after he turned it over he claimed to either not remember his Apple ID or not remember the password. Your Apple ID is your email address, and not remembering the password is highly unlikely since it is needed to download apps, purchase from iTunes, store data in iCloud, even after a software update you have to enter your Apple ID and password. Moller had to fly with the phone to Apple's headquarters in the U.S. to try to get his ID and/or password. OP was hiding something.