MURDERER_SERVANT
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Trial Discussion Thread #48
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Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #189
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Wow, liesbeth, your posts 929 and 937 seem so extraordinarily logic to me. It's fascinating!
Well, please be aware that I am a total layman and it's the very first time that a follow a trial.
You say, that you think that Nel will argue in that way next week (I hope so).
I went back to view again Roux x-examinating Mrs Burger (Oscar Pistorius Trial: Tuesday 4 March 2014, Session 2). Roux says its common cause for PT and DT that Reeva was in the toilet room, door closed.
If this is common cause, is it possible that Nel argues next week the way you explained it in your posts?
What does it actually mean: "Common cause"?
After having read your posts 929 and 937, it sounds so weird to me the way Roux x-examines Mrs Burger. How can he say at that stage: WE know, Reeva was in the toilet room and the door was CLOSED?
Chapeau, liesbeth!!!
Well, please be aware that I am a total layman and it's the very first time that a follow a trial.
You say, that you think that Nel will argue in that way next week (I hope so).
I went back to view again Roux x-examinating Mrs Burger (Oscar Pistorius Trial: Tuesday 4 March 2014, Session 2). Roux says its common cause for PT and DT that Reeva was in the toilet room, door closed.
If this is common cause, is it possible that Nel argues next week the way you explained it in your posts?
What does it actually mean: "Common cause"?
After having read your posts 929 and 937, it sounds so weird to me the way Roux x-examines Mrs Burger. How can he say at that stage: WE know, Reeva was in the toilet room and the door was CLOSED?
Chapeau, liesbeth!!!
Lux et Veritas
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One of the defense’s claims is that even if Reeva was screaming (which they categorically deny, as they must) ear witnesses could not have heard her screaming in a tiny closed toilet.
Wrong.
They completely ignored the fact that the toilet has a WINDOW - in direct line to the Stipp and Burger/Johnson houses; Reeva no doubt opened it to scream for her life!
No doubt OP closed that window after the shooting ... among other crime scene manipulations he had plenty of time to commit...since he was not calling police, Netcare or security.
Wrong.
They completely ignored the fact that the toilet has a WINDOW - in direct line to the Stipp and Burger/Johnson houses; Reeva no doubt opened it to scream for her life!
No doubt OP closed that window after the shooting ... among other crime scene manipulations he had plenty of time to commit...since he was not calling police, Netcare or security.
Lux et Veritas
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http://ewn.co.za/2014/08/02/Carl-Pistorius-in-ICU-after-head-on-collision
http://ewn.co.za/2014/08/02/Jaws-of-life-removed-Pistorius
http://ewn.co.za/2014/08/02/Blade-Runners-brother-in-serious-accident
If Carl drives anything like his brother, I'm surprised he's still alive.
That being said, I sincerely hope he recovers well.
It will be very interesting to see what the other driver and witnesses say - who will be charged.
http://ewn.co.za/2014/08/02/Jaws-of-life-removed-Pistorius
http://ewn.co.za/2014/08/02/Blade-Runners-brother-in-serious-accident
If Carl drives anything like his brother, I'm surprised he's still alive.
That being said, I sincerely hope he recovers well.
It will be very interesting to see what the other driver and witnesses say - who will be charged.
Call me cynical but so far once again it's just the account as per the Pistorius camp. It is tragic, for both drivers and their families, but also seems very convenient that this has happened just before final arguments when OP's DT is needing as much public support as is possible under the heavy weight of the evidence presented and imo not disputed to the point of raising any doubt as to OP's culpability under the charges.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/oscar-pistorius-brother-badly-hurt-car-crash-24818370
east2west
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And the icing on the cake is:
"By about 22h00 on 13 February 2013 we were in our bedroom. She was doing her yoga exercises and I was in bed watching television. My prosthetic legs were off. We were deeply in love and I could not be happier. I know she felt the same way. She had given me a present for Valentine's Day but asked me only to open it the next day."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Oscar-Pistoriuss-court-statement-in-full.html
Not sure if this has previously been posted (probably has though 
)
From an article about the arrest of OP in 2009, the Taylor-Memmory 'assault'.
http://www.iol.co.za/sport/athletics/oscar-hits-accuser-with-r2-2m-claim-1.1023474
Sounds a bit of a familiar fallback position for OP.
)From an article about the arrest of OP in 2009, the Taylor-Memmory 'assault'.
http://www.iol.co.za/sport/athletics/oscar-hits-accuser-with-r2-2m-claim-1.1023474
Sounds a bit of a familiar fallback position for OP.
Lux et Veritas
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"Deeply in love". "Could not be happier".
Yet he never bought her a Valentine's Day gift. How does that kind of deep love work? LOL (Notice he carefully makes no mention of his omission.)
The f##ker even used her VD gift to him as part of his fairytale - see, she wasn't afraid of me, she loved me, why would I want to kill her?
Asleep at 10pm? omglol The guys a self-admitted insomniac - not to mention a Type-A adrenaline-junkie. (Be honest, guys, would you simply go to sleep at 10pm with a Reeva in your bed?)
She was doing her yoga exercises and I was in bed watching television.
Seriously?! Sounds like an old married couple!
These were two young people who did not live together, obviously did not see each other every day (and maybe not even every week), had only been dating a little over three months. (Gals, for real, would you do your (unsexy, boring) exercises in front of your hot boyfriend - in the bedroom?!)
He was watching TV?! Come on! A normal, hot-blooded guy would have been watching the gorgeous Reeva!
His story STINKS.
He tried to make the evening sound TOO normal, TOO mundane, TOO much domestic bliss.
Just does not ring true.
On holiday but keeping up...looking forward to the final statements.
The long argument, screams, the four exploding bullets and their placement, the large damage on the bedroom doors (and his consistently unconvincing testimony) the random outside placement of the jeans, her food content, the broken bath panel all show Pistorius lost control of his temper and he killed Steenkamp on purpose and then did nothing realistically to help the victim - while doing much to confuse the investigation - including his questionable sequence of calls and conversation, the missing phone, washing his hands and probably body as if he was scrambling to deal with his crime etc. etc.
Can't wait for the rest of the trial.
Also, Carl Pistorius, self proclaimed 'The Hulk' gets badly hurt in a car accident...get better soon man, but whaaaaaaaat....
The long argument, screams, the four exploding bullets and their placement, the large damage on the bedroom doors (and his consistently unconvincing testimony) the random outside placement of the jeans, her food content, the broken bath panel all show Pistorius lost control of his temper and he killed Steenkamp on purpose and then did nothing realistically to help the victim - while doing much to confuse the investigation - including his questionable sequence of calls and conversation, the missing phone, washing his hands and probably body as if he was scrambling to deal with his crime etc. etc.
Can't wait for the rest of the trial.
Also, Carl Pistorius, self proclaimed 'The Hulk' gets badly hurt in a car accident...get better soon man, but whaaaaaaaat....
I'd love to have seen the receipts for the charm bracelet(s) he claimed to have bought for her. He probably bought them for Sam Taylor or his sister rather than Reeva
He also can't recall what he was watching on tv. The last night he saw the woman he
I was going to attempt a timeline of the time they actually spent together because there's a couple of things that stand out. She was away for 2 weeks doing the Tropika Island thing a week after they met, he was in Qatar in December racing against a horse and they had Martin Rooney staying with them at some point between Jan/Feb 2013. So the 3 months and a week they were in this relationship then comes down to possibly only 2.5 months together which makes this even more shocking that there were arguments in what OP describes as 'the foundation phase'.
I do wonder though whether any mention of sex between them had been kept out of the trial in respect for Reeva's parents but the lack of any mention of their physical relationship is more than strange?
Interested Bystander
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If OP and Reeva had sex that night it would have been apparent in her autopsy. If they had, I think it would have been part of the bail affi because it would bolster his "deeply in love" piece IMO.
kittychi and kaos: I have also thought about the lack of "sex" in this trial. I am wondering if it is a cultural thing or something, because there was an interaction between Roux and Sam Taylor (Friday 7 March) during cross-examination when he actually apologised to Sam when he had asked her "did you sleep together that night" and had to retract "I didn't mean, did you physically interact with him, I mean, did you sleep over, I'm sorry" and he smiled and Sam giggled slightly. The only other person that I can remember mentioning sex during the trial was Dr Vorster who said that his sexual relationships had been short term, but I thought he was with Sam for at least a year. I don't know about Jenna Edkins (that van Zyl mentioned). I do think it is strange that no sex whatsoever has been mentioned in relation to Oscar and Reeva... In my mind there are some inferences to be drawn from that.
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Interested Bystander
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BiB
There was a text/Whatsapp from Reeva to Oscar asking where he would like sex - "on the kitchen counter, on the stairs or on the couch" and he chose the couch. This was not read out in court as Roux thought it was not necessary as it was about Reeva but it was subsequently reported by the press. It has been posted here. I will see if I can find it. The text suggests to me that Reeva was not shy, or they had any hang ups, in that respect as it was she who started the conversation.
Here is one report but there were many that included it was she who started the conversation.
http://citizen.co.za/157193/cry-me-a-reeva-oscar/
"There they banter about having sex on the kitchen counter, the couch or the stairs."
Here is another:-
http://mediaslutza.com/2014/04/04/huisgenoot-10-april-2014/
Reeva: 20:45 Maybe we should have a date night tomor boo before Marty comes home.
Reeva: 20:45 Have sex on the kitchen counter.
Oscar: 20:45 The couch.
Reeva: 20:45 The stairs.
I think they did spend Christmas together but it was a last minute thing. OP testified that Reeva was supposed to be spending it with some friends but they didn't pick her up so she spent it with him and I think Darren Frisco and his girlfriend but I'm sure there was mention of something he was doing on 26thDecember so it can't have been the entire Christmas period.
Interested Bystander: Thank you for those links. I do remember Roux at one point saying to a witness that "I won't read out that message, because it is about Reeva". I am thinking now that this might be what he didn't read out loud. Also, when a witness was asked to click on one of the links to show which websites had been surfed that night, he did not choose the *advertiser censored* one. Again, that only came out through journalists. This is why I get the impression that they want to avoid bringing in sex in this trial. I just don't understand why. Was it definitely confirmed by Dr Saayman that Reeva had not had sex in the hours before she died? Is this why he didn't want his testimony to be broadcast? He mentioned that he wanted to protect Reeva's dignity. I didn't quite get that and thought maybe he doesn't want to mention that she had breast implants or something like that. Again, I get a feeling that this is a cultural thing. I have never been to South Africa so I cant really say, I'm just speculating. I'm Scandinavian, and I feel that we are not as sensitive about the sex aspects (although, the law seems very strange when it comes to rape, like in the Assange case - but that is off topic here).
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Interested Bystander
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Thank you Scand. I slightly misunderstood your original post. Apologies. I appreciate now you meant that nothing was discussed in the trial and not that sex did not figure much in their lives. I think Reeva was quite experienced, probably moreso than Oscar. I also think Roux and Nel (and the pathologist) tried not to paint a picture Reeva that could be misconstrued. As you say, there has been nothing in the press about her breast augmentation even though it is fairly obvious from the photographs. I know in the UK the tabloid hacks would have published much of this, had it been a UK murder. So maybe you are correct in that it is a cultural issue and SA do not publish such personal material if it can be avoided. I feel the UK press go way to far on occasion to the point of being salacious. Sadly it seems to sell papers over here.
Leda: I agree. I don't understand why Nel didn't "jump" at that. Maybe he has his reasons. I'll be interested to see if he uses this in arguments. Can't wait! I am assuming that the arguments will be broadcast as well, just like the trial was. I certainly hope so.
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Lux et Veritas
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Poor heroic Oscar wants you to believe that he actually ran all the way to the bedroom balcony* to yell “help! help! help!”. (Why not scream for help out the OPEN bathroom window?)
The one thing he did NOT do first was call security, police or Netcare i.e. immediate HELP.
This guy thought calling his good buddy would save Reeva’s life?
No, he thought it would save his life and career.
* Perhaps a total of 43 FEET from the toilet to the balcony? (Est. bathroom 8 feet, hallway 21 feet, bedroom 14 feet)
The one thing he did NOT do first was call security, police or Netcare i.e. immediate HELP.
This guy thought calling his good buddy would save Reeva’s life?
No, he thought it would save his life and career.
* Perhaps a total of 43 FEET from the toilet to the balcony? (Est. bathroom 8 feet, hallway 21 feet, bedroom 14 feet)
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