Trial Discussion Thread #48

[Lux et Veritas]

Oscar makes NO mention of ever doing any kind of first aid/CPR in the bathroom. He never even describes stanching her profusely bleeding wounds with towels (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

WHY?

Because he did not want her to survive.

The stark absence of this basic life-or-death action is a red flag.

Wouldn’t this be your first logical move? The friggin weasel can only sit and “cry” over her?!! (Manufactured drama - see how much I “loved” her!) He doesn’t even call Netcare first, but his buddy! Only downstairs (after dramatically carrying Reeva down the stairs) in full public view, does he attempt to “save” her (by sticking his fingers in her mouth (wtf, yeah, that always helps me breath).

He did not want her to potentially utter one damning word - he even instructs Carice to do the same while he goes to get tape and bags, thus insuring Reeva's total silence.

 

[Scand]

Lux et Verital: I agree with what you are saying. I also feel that not everyone would be able to touch a dead body. In this day and age, people are generally not exposed to death, not like in the olden days. I think this was explored in his psych evaluation because it mentioned that OP had seen a dead girl on a railway bank after she had been thrown from a train.


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[Lux et Veritas]

Remember Oscar’s 31 SECOND SILENCE when Nel asked him if Reeva screamed?

Inexplicably, Nel broke the deafening silence first.

I would have remained absolutely SILENT until Oscar spoke, let him stew in his own juice good and proper.

I think Nel totally blew a golden opportunity by rescuing Oscar from his “distress” and crying. This was no moment for misplaced compassion. I think Nel could have broken Oscar right there - even an outright confession?

Do you realize how long 31 SECONDS of silence is in a courtroom? Go ahead, time it.

WHY was Oscar silent for so long? What was going through his mind? The question was a simple yes or no.

Breaking down on the stand in silence, Oscar was telling us the TRUTH during those excruciatingly long seconds.

Reeva SCREAMED.

 

[Scand]

Lux et Veritas: It would have been good to have seen Oscar's face at the time, because I think Nel broke the silence to explain to the Judge that he was waiting for the witness to console himself so I am assuming the silence was because Oscar was crying. I know myself, I don't always cry when I'm sad, but (annoyingly for me) I have a tendency to cry when I am really angry. I wonder if Oscar is the same.


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[kaos]

Another thing that's just struck me (I get too many of these moments).

Stipp's - woke up to confirm what they both heard
Johnson/Burger woke up to confirm what they both heard.
Nhlengethwa's - woke up to confirm what they both heard.
Carice Stander - woke up, waited to hear that her dad was up and told him what she heard.
Rika Motshuane - woke up husband to confirm what she heard.

Every single one of them had somebody in the house with them and each made sure to tell somebody they heard something. Yet OP never woke his 'beloved' up to confirm what he heard.

 

[whiterum]

Poor heroic Oscar wants you to believe that he actually ran all the way to the bedroom balcony* to yell “help! help! help!”. (Why not scream for help out the OPEN bathroom window?)

The one thing he did NOT do first was call security, police or Netcare i.e. immediate HELP.

This guy thought calling his good buddy would save Reeva’s life?

No, he thought it would save his life and career.


* Perhaps a total of 43 FEET from the toilet to the balcony? (Est. bathroom 8 feet, hallway 21 feet, bedroom 14 feet)

Exactly , you would have to be dumb to believe that totally tailored to try fit the evidence crock of **** !!

 

[foxbluff]

"Deeply in love". "Could not be happier".

Yet he never bought her a Valentine's Day gift. How does that kind of “deep love” work? LOL (Notice he carefully makes no mention of his omission.)

The f##ker even used her VD gift to him as part of his fairytale - see, she wasn't afraid of me, she loved me, why would I want to kill her?

Asleep at 10pm? omglol The guy’s a self-admitted insomniac - not to mention a Type-A adrenaline-junkie. (Be honest, guys, would you simply go to sleep at 10pm with a “Reeva” in your bed?)

“She was doing her yoga exercises and I was in bed watching television.”

Seriously?! Sounds like an old married couple!

These were two young people who did not live together, obviously did not see each other every day (and maybe not even every week), had only been dating a little over three months. (Gals, for real, would you do your (unsexy, boring) exercises in front of your hot boyfriend - in the bedroom?!)

He was watching TV?! Come on! A normal, hot-blooded guy would have been watching the gorgeous Reeva!

His story STINKS.

He tried to make the evening sound TOO normal, TOO mundane, TOO much “domestic bliss”.

Just does not ring true.

Doesn't ring true to me either !!

Oh, yes, and additionally I didn't miss the part where he referred to his bedroom as "our bedroom"... made me want to barf !

And speaking of not ringing true, let's not forget his rather strange (imo) comment about RS being in the bathroom and calling him in to brush his teeth. wtf???

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Lux et Verital: I agree with what you are saying. I also feel that not everyone would be able to touch a dead body. In this day and age, people are generally not exposed to death, not like in the olden days. I think this was explored in his psych evaluation because it mentioned that OP had seen a dead girl on a railway bank after she had been thrown from a train.


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Hi, Scand. Welcome!

This wasn’t just a dead body - this was supposedly the love of his life - his “fiancee” (yeah, uh-huh).

For someone who did not want to touch death, he sure got a mess of blood all over his body. He didn’t mind sticking his fingers into her mouth at the bottom of the stairs. And he sure wasn’t squeamish about firing four Black Talons through a locked, closed door. I’m sure he remembers that watermelon.

This is a man who once hit a dog with his car, got out of the vehicle, went back to shoot it dead (in full view of the owner) ... then simply drove off.

 

[kaos]

Doesn't ring true to me either !!

Oh, yes, and additionally I didn't miss the part where he referred to his bedroom as "our bedroom"... made me want to barf !

And speaking of not ringing true, let's not forget his rather strange (imo) comment about RS being in the bathroom and calling him in to brush his teeth. wtf???

I forgot about that! Young lovers of 3 months sharing their weird facial expressions as they possibly floss together, drool toothpaste over their chins and then slosh around mouthwash before spitting it into the sink. I don't even let my OH watch me put make up on because of the faces I tend to pull when I'm doing that and we've been together 20 years! Maybe it's a youth thing

 

[Interested Bystander]

I think they did spend Christmas together but it was a last minute thing. OP testified that Reeva was supposed to be spending it with some friends but they didn't pick her up so she spent it with him and I think Darren Frisco and his girlfriend but I'm sure there was mention of something he was doing on 26thDecember so it can't have been the entire Christmas period.

It has taken me a little time to find the following. It is a court stenographer's record. I think this is why I felt she did not stay with him for Christmas. He says because her arrangement to be with friends failed he flew back to see her. He returned to Cape Town and later she asked if she could go to Cape Town to see him. It doesn't of course give the exact dates so maybe she was there over Christmas. Also this record shows fairly clearly that they had not planned to live together yet. So much hogwash about him buying a house in Jo'berg so they could live together.

Liars need good memories and his memory failure has sealed his fate methinks.

http://live-news.sky.com/Event/Oscar_Pistorius_Trial_Stenographer?Page=0

OP: She then flew overseas to do a TV programme. In December, I went to Cape Town, she said she wanted to spend time with her friends over Christmas.

OP: Her friends then cancelled, I flew up to see her.

OP: Afterwards I flew back to Cape Town. She later phoned me and asked if she could visit me in Cape Town.

OP: In January we started spending more time with each other.

OP: I think we both had things that kept us back in our relationships from getting to know each other. I was very keen in Reeva. We both had come out of difficult relationships.

OP: At times I felt that I was more into her. In January we started making more serious plans.

OP: She spoke about her brother and son and asked if we could visit them in June.

OP: I had started looking at curtains, interior decorating my new house that I was going to buy.

OP: We discussed me moving to Johannesburg, she was also looking for a new place to stay. We spoke about future agreements that she should sign.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Oscar crouched down over Reeva and put his left arm underneath her right arm and checked to see if she was breathing or had a pulse. He didn’t feel that she did so he pulled her on top of him. At that point he heard her breathing so he immediately tried to pick her up and get her out.

He wasn’t able to pick her up so he scuffled around with his legs which he theorizes is how the magazine rack got moved, he may have kicked it. At this point he was seated against the left hand part of the door frame inside the toilet room with Reeva’s weight on top of him. He managed to turn her around and get her on the ground.

This does not seem likely to me. I think the blood pool and droplets inside the toilet would have been much more disturbed if Oscar was “scuffling around” with his legs as he says he was.

https://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/04/14/oscar-trial-day-22-part-1-oscar/


I agree 100%. For dragging, moving, lifting Reeva’s body, all the blood is remarkably UNDISTURBED. For all his pathetic, bleating claims and pleas to Stander for “help”, this was a massively fit, powerful Olympian who had ZERO trouble lifting or carrying the small Reeva Steenkamp. (Have you taken a good look at his physique? See photos below.)

He never "battled" to remove Reeva from the toilet. At most, he easily dragged her out of the toilet and allowed her to lay on the bathroom floor, while he went about making carefully calculated phone calls and manipulating the scene. He then very easily carried her downstairs.

Even more damning, I find it astounding that, amid all the bloody chaos, OP’s gun somehow carefully managed to end up on the clean bath mat. There’s blood everywhere - EXCEPT on his gun! This suggests to me the possibility that it was strategically placed there afterward.

Contrast this stark difference in the careless handling of her phone with his gun; he admits he may have “dropped” Reeva’s phone, hence the cover came off (more like he threw her phone when he couldn’t access it to see if/who she called?).








This is the poor guy who needed buddy Stander's "help" carrying Reeva.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Re my post 1090 above. I have since listened to the actual court recording and can see the stenographer (who I have always thought made accurate records), also made plenty of mistakes and has in fact left a lot out. It seems OP came back to spend Christmas with her and he went back to Cape Town afterwards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HdHTuxetKk

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Lux et Veritas: It would have been good to have seen Oscar's face at the time, because I think Nel broke the silence to explain to the Judge that he was waiting for the witness to console himself so I am assuming the silence was because Oscar was crying. I know myself, I don't always cry when I'm sad, but (annoyingly for me) I have a tendency to cry when I am really angry. I wonder if Oscar is the same.


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This is exactly why OP did not want his face televised. His eyes, face and body language would have betrayed him.

(Honestly, I don't think it even mattered. His voice betrayed him)

But, fortunately, Judge Masipa and the court didn't miss a thing.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Another thing that's just struck me (I get too many of these moments).

Stipp's - woke up to confirm what they both heard
Johnson/Burger woke up to confirm what they both heard.
Nhlengethwa's - woke up to confirm what they both heard.
Carice Stander - woke up, waited to hear that her dad was up and told him what she heard.
Rika Motshuane - woke up husband to confirm what she heard.

Every single one of them had somebody in the house with them and each made sure to tell somebody they heard something. Yet OP never woke his 'beloved' up to confirm what he heard.

Exactly, Kaos. There are so many damning instances in this case it's hard to keep up! OP might as well just start getting measurements for his orange jumpsuit. (And no, it will not have a Nike swoosh.)

 

[kaos]

Exactly, Kaos. There are so many damning instances in this case it's hard to keep up! OP might as well just start getting measurements for his orange jumpsuit. (And no, it will not have a Nike swoosh.)

Also, given the insomniac that OP is, we're expected to believe that Reeva got up in the dark, went over to the bedroom door, moved the cricket bat out of the way, unlocked the door, went on her way downstairs de-activating the alarm, faffed around in the kitchen making herself something to eat, came back up the stairs, re-activated the alarm, went back into the dark bedroom, locked the door and replaced the bat just so that it would come in handy for OP to whack into the toilet door

The muzzle flash thing that somebody posted a day or two ago is really bugging me too. There used to be somebody on here who had knowledge of this particular gun so I'd also like to hear from them whether it would have flashed as I find it hard to believe that it didn't and it should really have played a more significant part in the state's case. No mention whatsoever of a muzzle flash and yet OP testified very concisely that he knew what a muzzle flash looked like when he came up with the perceived hijacking on the highway. His high attention to little blue led lights would surely have noticed a flash from his gun as he himself said, he kept his eyes open looking between the window and the door.

 

[808]

Also, given the insomniac that OP is, we're expected to believe that Reeva got up in the dark, went over to the bedroom door, moved the cricket bat out of the way, unlocked the door, went on her way downstairs de-activating the alarm, faffed around in the kitchen making herself something to eat, came back up the stairs, re-activated the alarm, went back into the dark bedroom, locked the door and replaced the bat just so that it would come in handy for OP to whack into the toilet door

The muzzle flash thing that somebody posted a day or two ago is really bugging me too. There used to be somebody on here who had knowledge of this particular gun so I'd also like to hear from them whether it would have flashed as I find it hard to believe that it didn't and it should really have played a more significant part in the state's case. No mention whatsoever of a muzzle flash and yet OP testified very concisely that he knew what a muzzle flash looked like when he came up with the perceived hijacking on the highway. His high attention to little blue led lights would surely have noticed a flash from his gun as he himself said, he kept his eyes open looking between the window and the door.

Wow Kaos that's something that wasn't discussed !

"In a dark room, a large muzzle flash from a +P round will temporarily blind you, making it impossible for follow up shots."
http://www.ballistics101.com/personal_defense.php

Depending on the type of round he used (It was ranger veriosn of black talons) he would have been blinded in the dark by the flash.

The grouping was deliberate and close not the shooting of a deaf,blind legless terrified individual. Roll on the verdict :moo:.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

[. . .] OP: At times I felt that I was more into her. In January we started making more serious plans.

[. . .]

OP: I had started looking at curtains, interior decorating my new house that I was going to buy.

OP: We discussed me moving to Johannesburg, she was also looking for a new place to stay. We spoke about future agreements that she should sign.

More into her? Yeah, more like obsessive, controlling and jealous.

Serious plans? Like what? He never mentioned them.

“MY new house”? Well, that kinda says it all, doesn’t it?

She was also looking for a new place? Seriously, does that sound like a “fiancee”?!!

(Btw, for those who might not know, his house had been on the market since 2011.)

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Re my post 1090 above. I have since listened to the actual court recording and can see the stenographer (who I have always thought made accurate records), also made plenty of mistakes and has in fact left a lot out. It seems OP came back to spend Christmas with her and he went back to Cape Town afterwards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HdHTuxetKk

The stenographer left stuff out? WHAT has she left out during the entire trial?! That's simply frightening. Geezus, this isn't taking school notes, this is a murder trial! Her mistakes/omissions could help wrongfully send anyone to prison - or free them.

Mmm...now I'm starting to wonder about the stenographer's possible bias?!!

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Also, given the insomniac that OP is, we're expected to believe that Reeva got up in the dark, went over to the bedroom door, moved the cricket bat out of the way, unlocked the door, went on her way downstairs de-activating the alarm, faffed around in the kitchen making herself something to eat, came back up the stairs, re-activated the alarm, went back into the dark bedroom, locked the door and replaced the bat just so that it would come in handy for OP to whack into the toilet door

The muzzle flash thing that somebody posted a day or two ago is really bugging me too. There used to be somebody on here who had knowledge of this particular gun so I'd also like to hear from them whether it would have flashed as I find it hard to believe that it didn't and it should really have played a more significant part in the state's case. No mention whatsoever of a muzzle flash and yet OP testified very concisely that he knew what a muzzle flash looked like when he came up with the perceived hijacking on the highway. His high attention to little blue led lights would surely have noticed a flash from his gun as he himself said, he kept his eyes open looking between the window and the door.

“I’ve got that addiction to perfection when I’m off the track as well.”
- Oscar Pistorius

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doL8vwHEyo4

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Wow Kaos that's something that wasn't discussed !

"In a dark room, a large muzzle flash from a +P round will temporarily blind you, making it impossible for follow up shots."
http://www.ballistics101.com/personal_defense.php

Depending on the type of round he used (It was ranger veriosn of black talons) he would have been blinded in the dark by the flash.

The grouping was deliberate and close not the shooting of a deaf,blind legless terrified individual. Roll on the verdict :moo:.

His certified training aside, his close* “grouping” of shots probably means:

1) He was shooting in a lighted bathroom; or
2) He was using low (muzzle) flash powder ammo; or
3) Both.

I’m going with both.

Why?

We know OP’s "intruder" story is a crock of ####, as Stipps testify his bathroom light was ON and he can afford the very best, most advanced ammo.

* Or what I, Ms. Totally Untrained Armchair Sleuth , consider close. (What the heck do I know?) LOL

For handguns, the Winchester “Ranger” line of ammunition includes a flash retardant that gives it a very mild red [good] muzzle flash from most weapons.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/low-light-essentials-8-gear-ammunition/

Discusses muzzle flash and low flash powder ammo.
http://brycetowsley.com/tactical/gone-flash