Trial Discussion Thread #5 - 14.03.11-12, Day 7-8

[aa9511]

Yesterday there was a "discrepancy" on CNN/testimony/here whether is was her left or right hip, and left or right arm. Have we nailed that down that someone can clarify?

Also. I did see that the shot to the hip was at 36" US.

:doh: what is the level of each door bullet hole....? Sooooooooooo, I got out my yardstick and put up to myself... (I stand 5'7" with "long legs")...andddddddddddd, 36" is exactly at my lower butt/leg area". I think that the chances of him hitting that height means she was standing up...with her shorts ON.

Again, can someone clarify if all shots were to right side, or one was to the left as stated in some MSM.

TIA

Thank you for doing the experiment. I was thinking more about it too, and realized she would have to be standing up for her right hip to have gotten hit and still correspond with the bullet holes in the door.

I am pretty sure all of the shots were to the right side. I think there has been some mistake in some of the MSM reports.

 

[jilly]

That is interesting, I forgot about that.

It could be that Darrin was shocked and maybe even a bit frightened on the inside, but he wanted to show Oscar that he was "cool." YKWIM?

Same thing with the restaurant incident.

I think Darrin kind of looked up to Oscar and wanted to sort of, impress, him. Wanted Oscar to think he was very cool and spontaneous and wild.

JMO.

More liked "sucked up" to me. Otherwise, what kind of person would take the blame for something like that.

 

[zwiebel]

Thanks! do you have a link for this that you posted?

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad64/SoulShynz9293/Decorated images/OPgraphic_zpse90df590.jpg

ETA: Alerting mod as I think I blew the margins but cannot resize myself and asking to help!

Ha! I went off looking for the posts with the info, all the time thinking if Bessie saw your question, the link would be brought over long before I could do it. And I was right....

Bessie posted some useful info in the last thread, and Zinn. And there all the tweets etc of what the pathologist said yesterday, but no single, definitive link I'm afraid.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Oscar Pistorius Trial Discussion thread, 10 March 2014 - #3

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Oscar Pistorius Trial Discussion thread, 10 March 2014 - #3

 

[zwiebel]

bbm

We know that Oscar is a liar.

Darrin made a mistake, and he took responsbility for it, he even took responsibility for someone else.

I believe Darrin over Oscar.

I think what happened is Oscar was sitting there at the restaurant and getting bored. He thought of this very "funny" idea to shoot a gun in the middle of the restaurant and he wanted to watch people get frantic and he wanted to see what kind of reaction he could get.

JMO.

I remember Darrin said his reply to Oscar was 'It would be my pleasure' (to take responsibility for the incident ). It seems a very unlikely reply to be made up, and also shows he was very much in awe/eager to impress Oscar, I think.

 

[Trooper]

Oscars involuntary retching, gagging, hurling , puking, vomiting, upchucking was all done in a masculine pitch.. nothing girlish about it.

and he was certainly and irrefutably under extreme stress..

when he was shooting Reeva, he was able to run hither and yon, turning on lights, putting on prosthetics, running back, shooting thru the door, realizing it 'may be Reeva', bashing the door down, carrying the body downstairs.. stick his fingers down Reevas throat, his other hand on her bloodied groin..

yesterday, he couldn't even move from his seated position. he could barely raise his head from the dropped angle, he could hardly hold on to the bench back in front of him.. he couldn't even wield a tissue to wipe his suit or face down. . someone eventually put a hanky over his head.. stress, for sure..

but undeniably masculine sounds of stress.

the claim that he can scream like a woman is meaningless... he has to be able to scream exactly like the woman the witnesses heard..

 

[Peliman]

Thank you for doing the experiment. I was thinking more about it too, and realized she would have to be standing up for her right hip to have gotten hit and still correspond with the bullet holes in the door.

I am pretty sure all of the shots were to the right side. I think there has been some mistake in some of the MSM reports.

So my question for OP and Roux remains. If she was shot in the head first, would her hip remain at 36 inches or would the head shot dropped her like I think it would. JMO

I'm postulating her hip would have been lower than 36 inches if she was shot in the head first.

 

[Irisha]

This is slippery. Roux is trying to trap Fresco into saying he's followed proceedings - throwing his testimony into question. Fresco remains firm he's seen/heard coverage, mostly unintentionally, but hasn't been intentionally following the trial.

Roux eventually drops it to go back to how close their heads could be. Fresco is showing signs of stress - he sounds really irked by Roux.

Edit: According to media tweets, it sounds as if he did admit to following trial on twitter.

Maybe Fresco was "investigating" how Roux was going to "twist, blame everyone else,divert, imply untruthfulness" towards Fresco.

Was it illegal for him to follow on twitter, as a witness?

I'm trying to follow this as much as possible, plus the missing plane and 2 other cases, and ugh, General Hospital is on now.:banghead:

 

[aa9511]

Well, there is really, IMO, little Defense can do to refute Darrin's testimony. It is not just Darrin's word vs. Oscar's - what Darrin said has been verified independently by 2 other people - Kevin and Samantha.

I really think Oscar's strategy (told to Roux) is not working in his favor.

His strategy is to say the witnesses are lying.

Well, what is the point of that when what the witness says is corroborated by at least 2 other witnesses?

I believe this is Oscar's strategy, and he is telling Roux to do this. because it makes no sense.

I think Oscar is just denying, denying, denying to everyone, including his defense. No, Darrin lied. The gun actually came out of his trackpants and accidentally fired. He fired it. That strategy makes no sense when there are 2 witnesses saying the same thing regarding the restaurant incident.

The car incident - I guess even Oscar doesn't have a way out of that one.

But IMO, Oscar and his team should have used a different strategy.

For example:

The restaurant incident - instead of lying and saying Darrin did it accidentally, just admit that Oscar did it, but say what Darrin thought he did, that he was just emptying the gun of the bullets and it accidentally shot. (Maybe he will indeed say this if he testifies). Accusing Darrin of lying is going nowhere.

The car incident - say Darrin was in on it, we both thought it would be funny. We both came up with the idea. That spreads the responsibility and eases up the burden on Oscar.

Perhaps he will end up going these routes if he testifies.

But IMO it is not doing him any good by getting Roux to say everyone is lying, which gives a THIRD story that will end up contradicting Oscar's story. For example, now that Roux has suggested that Darrin fired it accidentally, now if Oscar gets on the stand and says he, Oscar, fired it but it was an accident, then it's just going to make Oscar seem like a liar.

JMO.

 

[Trooper]

This is slippery. Roux is trying to trap Fresco into saying he's followed proceedings - throwing his testimony into question. Fresco remains firm he's seen/heard coverage, mostly unintentionally, but hasn't been intentionally following the trial.

Roux eventually drops it to go back to how close their heads could be. Fresco is showing signs of stress - he sounds really irked by Roux.

Edit: According to media tweets, it sounds as if he did admit to following trial on twitter.

The context of this interchange was Roux was insisting that Darrin was wearing track suit pants at the restaurant... that Roux claimed Darrin said this. to the owner that the gun caught in his track suit pants pocket.

Darrins voice got a little bit firmer at this point.. he said that nonsense came from twitter... he himself has NEVER worn tracksuit pants, and not to a restaurant.. it really offended Darrin that this lapse in sartorial normality could even be considered. Shorts were what he was wearing.. I assume tailored walk shorts, summer uniform for SA's..

he didn't admit to following the trial, on twitter, but the jumble of stuff that's been going on for a year.. It was a moment in the trial that made me grin.. Darrin was more cranky about being accused of wearing track suit pants, than all his speeding, gun carrying , taking-the-blame days of yesteryear.

 

[canny]

certainly, all day, Oscar vomited in a masculine pitch and frequency.. his groans were most certainly not girlish.

I wonder whether Oscar will be at his vomitious best when his Pathologist Dr Perumal takes the stand to testify on behalf of the defense case. Without any doubt he will vociferously argue that his forensic and ballistic findings emphatically proves that Reeva was shot in the head with the first bullet proving their argument that she never screamed at all. Remember it was he who found the spend bullet in the toilet bowl,after the State had completed its forensic examination of the crime scene, therefore the State will have to tread carefully when they cross examine him even though his forensic submissions to the court will be shattered by irrefutable blood splatter evidence in the toilet. Will the blade runner fall to his knees and thank the Lord for delivering him from evil with this unscientific bullet theory to the head, or will we still have to endure his barf bag.

 

[canny]

I believe he was... Roux 's theories didn't have anything substantiated.... Larena told the same story Samantha told the basically same story, she painted the mood of that Vaal river drive, Darrin painted the events. . its difficult to believe they ALL collaborated.. What could be the benefit to them?? whereas.. the benefit to Oscar is crucial if Roux can make them out to be liars.. and no doubt Darrin ,Samantha , Kevin, all the witnesses so far have had to go thru that process.. all liars, all mistaken. its getting bit wearisome ,really.. I long for Roux , under Oscars instructions, to come up with something concrete that exonerates his client

Darren Fresco conceded today that it was always Oscar who picked up the tab when he was out partying with his loyal friends. This reflects the lop sided relationship he imposed on his buddies and in return cajoled them to cover up for his outright felonies in return for some minuscule financial favours or just the vain satisfaction of being known as the sports superstar the Blade Runners friend, with OP it is always his way or the highway. Why any wealthy law abiding citizen will cover up for such an individual is beyond belief unless they were intimidated by the clout he had at his disposal. With Oscar’s lawyer branding them as liars and questioning their credibility and reliability in court, this stigma will haunt their personal lives and careers for the rest of their lives, this should be a moral lesson for all gullible fools who are mistaken into believing that friendship with suspicious characters will fatten up their bank accounts and convert them into wannabe celebrities overnight .Had even one of them reported his criminal behaviour when they had the numerous opportunity to do they would not be in the predicament they find themselves in today. .

certainly, in the car shooting.. Oscar getting out and haranguing the Metro officers has the clang of raw truth to it..

These Metro officers will be called to testify, will Roux accuse them of being liars, question their credibility and truthfulness?

 

[zwiebel]

So my question for OP and Roux remains. If she was shot in the head first, would her hip remain at 36 inches or would the head shot dropped her like I think it would. JMO

I'm postulating her hip would have been lower than 36 inches if she was shot in the head first.

I'm no good at calculations, but I was thinking this defensive position would account for the wound between the fingers of Reeva's left hand, and the shot that went through her right upper arm and hit the right side of her head, above the ear?

I've just noticed I've mixed up right and left in the drawing, sorry. But it shows the position I think she could have been in, anyhow. But it also seems that a position like that would be adopted when someone could see the gun being aimed at them?

 

[Trooper]

bbm

We know that Oscar is a liar.

Darrin made a mistake, and he took responsbility for it, he even took responsibility for someone else.

I believe Darrin over Oscar.

I think what happened is Oscar was sitting there at the restaurant and getting bored. He thought of this very "funny" idea to shoot a gun in the middle of the restaurant and he wanted to watch people get frantic and he wanted to see what kind of reaction he could get.

JMO.

I have toyed with the idea that it was to impress the British runner, Martyn Rooney.. bit of the old you-cant-have-guns-we-can, see? we're allowed to play with them any time we want, anywhere we want and you can't..

Kevin, the sweet little boxer never got to hold the gun.. the passage of it went directly from Oscar asking for it, those two leaning forward to each other so it could be passed under the table, Darrin saying its 'one up' Oscar fiddling with the gun under the table, for a few seconds, then whoofooo... off it goes..!!

 

[zwiebel]

It makes me wonder if the first bullet just missed Reeva's head, causing her to adopt that defensive position, the second hit her in the head and arm, causing her to drop her arms, and then the third hit her hip as she was already dropping to the floor.

But where did the fourth bullet end up?

 

[gajonka]

Thank you for doing the experiment. I was thinking more about it too, and realized she would have to be standing up for her right hip to have gotten hit and still correspond with the bullet holes in the door.

I am pretty sure all of the shots were to the right side. I think there has been some mistake in some of the MSM reports.

My Dear Masters of the Mind,

Whew- already on page ten with this thread! Crushing it! Watching Roux grill Oscar's buddy, who took the fall,,, but I love going back to listen to Burger's test tape... I love how she takes the gloves off and jumps into English... her test is solid- she tells the tale... the true tale.

I am concerned the state is spending too much time on these isolated- albeit slightly associated events that have nothing to do with the kill. Just because he likes his gun doesn't mean he did anything to Reeva,,, etc, that's my concern. I realize it needs to be hashed out... but I just hope they tighten this up.

Convinced Roux has a list of 50 random questions he runs through with every witness, just to make it appear as if he is a mastermind. Afraid to say he is growing on me.
Love ya,
.G

p.s.: anyone know where to find post day 3 video of the Marissa Devault trial? Can't seem to find...

 

[minor4th]

Yes he did lie in his sworn affidavit and took the blame for shooting his gun in the restaurant. Now he has made a plea bargain with the State provided he tells the truth in his testimony in this murder trial.

He gives an affidavit that incriminates himself - and when faced with being charged changes his story to incriminate Oscar in order to avoid being prosecuted. Hmm

 

[minor4th]

Ugh. What possible reason could have for lying about this. Is it honestly believable that everyone is that dead set against getting OP, even his own friends, that they'd lie about these things?

His motive is his plea bargain that kept him out of jail

 

[zwiebel]

I would like to see police explain why no-one was arrested, considering the speed they were doing during the sunroof incident, and that officers had been chasing them for a while and Oscar apparently was very rude. I don't understand it at all.

 

[Peliman]

I'm no good at calculations, but I was thinking this defensive position would account for the wound between the fingers of Reeva's left hand, and the shot that went through her right upper arm and hit the right side of her head, above the ear?

I've just noticed I've mixed up right and left in the drawing, sorry. But it shows the position I think she could have been in, anyhow. But it also seems that a position like that would be adopted when someone could see the gun being aimed at them?

Good point zwiebel, how would she have known to cover up? (If she did)

 

[canny]

I remember Darrin said his reply to Oscar was 'It would be my pleasure' (to take responsibility for the incident ). It seems a very unlikely reply to be made up, and also shows he was very much in awe/eager to impress Oscar, I think.

So my question for OP and Roux remains. If she was shot in the head first, would her hip remain at 36 inches or would the head shot dropped her like I think it would. JMO

I'm postulating her hip would have been lower than 36 inches if she was shot in the head first.

The blood splatter evidence in the toilet doesn't support their theory that the first bullet struck her head, since a few blonde hairs were found in her clutched hand right, indicating that Reeva right hand clasped the bullet wound to her head to ease the agonizing pain in a reflex motion.With her right hand in such a frozen state on her head, it would have been impossible for any bullet to hit the same hand at such an angle split two fingers then penetrate her elbow and break it.