Trial Discussion Thread #5 - 14.03.11-12, Day 7-8

[Interested Bystander]

There was definitely a delay with the bat, but I don't think it showed the microphone in the distance recording the gun shooting. Did it?

Here is the link BUT, interestingly, on watching a second time there is also a slight delay with the sound from the gun but not nearly as much. However, this serves to tell me that my recollection can be called into doubt. I thought there was no delay from the gun. What I thought I saw and heard the first time, was not quite what I registered viewing the video second time around.

[video=youtube;9BMMeYM7jRo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BMMeYM7jRo[/video]



I should add here that I don't think this is a particularly good experiment from the OP scenario but I was interested in the sound waves because bullets in modern guns fire at supersonic speeds and the wave packet will travel much faster than ordinary accoustic sound to begin with but dissipates over distance and eventually travels at the same speed.

 

[loohoo]

Re: speculation about whether Reeva was covering her head with her arms (which seems very likely to me) - I'm curious as to whether anyone knows if an expert will be called to reconstruct the most likely scenario based on the post mortem findings/crime scene... or was it the ME's job to speculate as to what position she may have been in at the time of the shooting (which I don't believe he did)? Will we hear expert insight on these potential scenarios or will we just be left to speculate forever?

 

[Really?]

I think also that the height of OP without prosthetics should be taken into consideration. I have a link that may or may not be 100% true but near enough. It says he is 5 ft without prosthetics and 6 ft with them. 5ft is a height to be well enough above the half way mark of the door no?

Although feel free to have a go at me as I am a 99% lurker and no professional but I thought this may be of use

<modsnip>

Thank you for the link and following this trial along with us !!!:loveyou:

 

[Inge Jones]

It's really irritating about the confusion on tweeting on Monday. Exactly what I feared would happen has happened - with media outlets giving conflicting versions. For example one news site saying the pathologist said she could have screamed after the hip and arm injury but not after the head one, while another site is saying she could have screamed after all three. Some are mentioning a hand wound, others not. And none of them are saying what happened to the 4th bullet shot. The only thing they all seem obsessed with is OP vomiting. This is going to really interfere with my ability to make sense of the rest of the trial!

I don't know why the journos at the court didn't simply compose tweets at the time but not send them till afterwards. At least then it would be a complete account not just "highlights" of what they thought would fill their evening articles.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Frankly, this unattributable youtube clip referred to here of someone's idea of a 'demonstration' cricket bat v gunshot is absurd. Even to call it a 'demonstration' is a terrific leeway with the English language.

I imagine the PT team will have had tests carried out. Part of the DT argument is that they both sound the same (which IMO is incorrect). PT will need to be able to shoot down this argument and as far as I can see it can only be done by themselves conducting actual tests BUT they would have to conduct them in a fully tiled bathroom of a very similar build to OP's. I imagine shots fired, or bats hitting a door in an enclosed space must have created echos, the gun shots moreso than the bat IMO. I expect to hear something about echos in the ballistics report.

 

[Inge Jones]

I didn't get to yesterdays's thread in time and it is locked now. But I see some discussion there about whether OP could make himself retch deliberately. I was having a think about that and wondered if maybe it is something athletes might find useful to train themselves to do occasionally in order to make sure their stomachs are empty before they run? I can't see why it shouldn't be possible - I can almost do it by pushing my uvula forward with my tongue.

 

[Trooper]

I imagine the PT team will have had tests carried out. Part of the DT argument is that they both sound the same (which IMO is incorrect). PT will need to be able to shoot down this argument and as far as I can see it can only be done by themselves conducting actual tests BUT they would have to conduct them in a fully tiled bathroom of a very similar build to OP's. I imagine shots fired, or bats hitting a door in an enclosed space must have created echos, the gun shots moreso than the bat IMO. I expect to hear something about echos in the ballistics report.

agreed..

the problem then is.. there had to be 8 loud sounds.. the cricket bat sounds being mistaken for gunshot, and the actual 4 gunshots fired. . = 8 loud sounds.

unless the theory is that Oscar held a gun in one hand and a bat in the other, and fired the gun and swung the bat in exact synchronicity?? this would, of course, if it was done perfectly, result in 4 sounds , equaling the actual number of bullets found discharged.. 3 in Reevas body, one a miss.

I'd like to see a demonstration of that!!

 

[minor4th]

Here is the link BUT, interestingly, on watching a second time there is also a slight delay with the sound from the gun but not nearly as much. However, this serves to tell me that my recollection can be called into doubt. I thought there was no delay from the gun. What I thought I saw and heard the first time, was not quite what I registered viewing the video second time around.

Oscar Pistorius Door: Cricket Bat v Gunshot Sounds - Analysis - YouTube



I should add here that I don't think this is a particularly good experiment from the OP scenario but I was interested in the sound waves because bullets in modern guns fire at supersonic speeds and the wave packet will travel much faster than ordinary accoustic sound to begin with but dissipates over distance and eventually travels at the same speed.

It also tells me that my recollection can be called into doubt because I did not think it showed the microphone at a distance recording the gunshot.

 

[Interested Bystander]

agreed..

the problem then is.. there had to be 8 loud sounds.. the cricket bat sounds being mistaken for gunshot, and the actual 4 gunshots fired. . = 8 loud sounds.

unless the theory is that Oscar held a gun in one hand and a bat in the other, and fired the gun and swung the bat in exact synchronicity?? this would, of course, if it was done perfectly, result in 4 sounds , equaling the actual number of bullets found discharged.. 3 in Reevas body, one a miss.

I'd like to see a demonstration of that!!

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh: You have such an amusing way of putting things.

 

[graceholl]

I am most likely being stupid, but in that crime scene photo posted, I can't really see evidence where OP attempted to batter the door down with a cricket bat...

 

[graceholl]

It has been a relatively quiet day and my mind has wandered to Oscar's pukathon. I do believe that Roux thought it would be a good idea for OP to be seen wretching and in a terrible state. As OP was "poorly" the day before and they knew there was more to come why wasn't he given something for his nerves and sickness? IMO it was because Roux thought it would show the judge that OP was desperately upset about the situation. Call me a cynic!

The majority of responses on Twitter to OP's vomathon linked it to post traumatic stress disorder.

Just an observation, I haven't an opinion on it really.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

OP's height is 1.84 m acc to wikipedia .. Prosth.legs 41 cm . Just assuming the theory that he was on his stumps , his height must be abt 1.43 m..
Waay shorter than Reeva...I wonder whether OP took the bat or the gun in hand in the bedroom during an argument and that is why Reeva got so scared and fled to the toilet .. Seems she didn't have the chance to defend herself and fight back but only could run there.. So if he was on his stumps , he might have likely had that bat in hand prior to bashing the door..IMO

 

[Dmacky]

I'm just gonna throw this out, and it is merely my own speculation. I think there was an argument, and it was probably over some texting OP was doing or had done with another female. Some how later, Reeva snuck his phone away and took it to the toilet to read, or see what he had been doing. When Oscar realized his phone was gone, he went into a rage to get it back...
Both phones were found in the toilet.

Of course Oscar couldn't have used his phone anyway, because he had forgotten his password :wink:

 

[james83]

Hi to everyone, been reading for a few days and the first thing that i must say is how civil a forum this is compared to others.
Thanks for providing such great info on the trial so far, i look forward to getting involved.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Yes, there are people who can voluntarily cause themselves to gag, vomit, and then dry heave. They are usually known among their peers as either "Drama Queens" or "Drama Kings". This is not something I would particularly want to do in life. But there are those who do so.

I was interested in reading about OP giving a "look that could kill" when his friend was on the stand today testifying about the gun incidents in the restaurant and through the sunroof of the car.

Poor Oscar! He thought all of his "good friends" were going to stand by his side and continue to lie and cover up for him about his outrageous behaviors. Except when these "friends" faced the very real possibility of jail time for themselves, they started to change their tune.

I can well understand these young men with their "macho" posings being willing to "take the blame" and engage in "cover ups" for their very wealthy, very famous friend, the Blade Runner. And when reality hits, it is very tough.

Quite frankly, I feel sorry for all of them. But most of all for the young lady who lost her life. This seems to me to be another tale of "Too much, too soon". Perhaps a different background, but the outcome is the same.

---------------

Murder Servant: What do you really mean here?

"OP's height is 1.84 cm acc to wikipedia .. Prosth.legs 41 cm . Just assuming the theory that he was on his stumps , his height must be abt 1.43 cm .."


2.5 cm = 1 inch

The above figures do not make sense to me. Thanks

 

[Dmacky]

The majority of responses on Twitter to OP's vomathon linked it to post traumatic stress disorder.

Just an observation, I haven't an opinion on it really.

hmmm

I was thinking a teaspoon of ipecac syrup before court :giggle:

 

[21merc7]

hmmm

I was thinking a teaspoon of ipecac syrup before court :giggle:

Yeah, that would do it! Or various herbs! :floorlaugh:

He really could have been made sick by seeing and hearing the effects of what he caused. Remorse need not apply to being upset.

But, it could have also been a ploy for acceptance of responsibility and remorse.

I prefer Dmacky's idea though. :giggle:

 

[gajonka]

BBM ...this made me laugh. Being married to a Brit I have to agree.....How dare they suggest tracky bottoms to a restaurant !!

HILARIOUS!!!!

Yeah, he was pissed!!

Sort of a sim to Dr Conrad Murray and his Cargo Pants... but much much funnier... good call Trooper-Trooper.

.G

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Yes, there are people who can voluntarily cause themselves to gag, vomit, and then dry heave. They are usually known among their peers as either "Drama Queens" or "Drama Kings". This is not something I would particularly want to do in life. But there are those who do so.

I was interested in reading about OP giving a "look that could kill" when his friend was on the stand today testifying about the gun incidents in the restaurant and through the sunroof of the car.

Poor Oscar! He thought all of his "good friends" were going to stand by his side and continue to lie and cover up for him about his outrageous behaviors. Except when these "friends" faced the very real possibility of jail time for themselves, they started to change their tune.

I can well understand these young men with their "macho" posings being willing to "take the blame" and engage in "cover ups" for their very wealthy, very famous friend, the Blade Runner. And when reality hits, it is very tough.

Quite frankly, I feel sorry for all of them. But most of all for the young lady who lost her life. This seems to me to be another tale of "Too much, too soon". Perhaps a different background, but the outcome is the same.

---------------

Murder Servant: What do you really mean here?

"OP's height is 1.84 cm acc to wikipedia .. Prosth.legs 41 cm . Just assuming the theory that he was on his stumps , his height must be abt 1.43 cm .."


2.5 cm = 1 inch

The above figures do not make sense to me. Thanks

Haha Thank you AS . I corrected my post..

His height without proth legs must be abt 1.43 m (143 cm in feet and inches = 4 feet and 8.3 inc)

 

[AlwaysShocked]

The administration of ipecac would certainly be capable of producing that type of vomiting.

I am not at all familiar with this being a symptom of PTSD. Not saying it is impossible, but surely not one of the more common symptoms of the disorder.


Ever hear of DKS? Drama King Syndrome? That's what I think caused the vomiting.

------------------------

Murder Servant: Thanks a lot. Now if you could only convert those meters and centimeters into feet and inches, we backwards folks in the U.S. would be most grateful. (I have no calculator nearby)

Here is what is needed: 2.5 cm. = 1 inch; 12 inches = 1 foot