Trial Discussion Thread #51 - 14.11.9, Day 41 ~announcement of the verdict~

[ColonelMustard]

did OP have intention to kill who was behind the door, so Masipa accepted OP didn't know it was Reeva.

IMHO Like he// he didn't know!!!!! I guess could be proved except by common sense, which is too nebulous to count.

"Intuition" does fly in appeals

 

[Lyra500]

Does that mean it's now down to did he kill a person behind the door rather than Reeva specifically?

I think so. There is still dolus eventualis so did he intend to kill the 'intruder' behind the door?

 

[revampz]

I have been reading all of this and I am extremely angry.......this is exactly what is wrong with the world today..........our politically correct legal systems in the western world. Common sense has gone out the window and the prosecution must bend over backwards and then do cartwheels as well to prove "beyond reasonable doubt"................well I say, the word "reasonable" needs to be re-established and based on common sense. Too many of these murderers and that is what they are, are getting off because of these strict guidelines. We don't want to go back to times when people were executed for ridiculous reasons, but like many other things in this world, the freaking do gooders have taken it too far the other way................and what is lost in all of this is the rights of the victims of the crime........I am furious.

 

[Forensics]

Well, we will soon here if the judge believes it to be dolus eventualis.......

 

[Sherbert]

Even if accused gives an explanation that is improbable - court also has to conclude that it is proved beyond a reasonable doubt that it is false

I think Milady has forgotten that the word 'doubt' is preceded by the word 'reasonable'...

 

[kaos]

It's more than a bit sad that the Judge can dismiss so much of the state's case just because there really was no independent eye witness. It smacks of the old saying "if a tree falls in the forest and nobody's there, does it still make a noise?"

 

[TartLemon]

WebSleuths is my go to for this stuff in EVERY case. Thanks WebSleuths.

 

[sorrell skye]

Does that mean it's now down to did he kill a person behind the door rather than Reeva specifically?

Could be.

My Lady is going to address error in persona next, which is basically transferred intent.

This is going to be interesting to hear what she has to say.

 

[LemonMousse]

Murder is still very much on the cards, IMO.

 

[Really?]

hey, 15 years in that prison I read about yesterday is good enough for me.....in GP of course...

 

[zwiebel]

Glad the judge has labelled (in so many words) Oscar Pistorius a liar. Because he was very untruthful on the stand.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Well, I guess a little shot of brandy couldn't hurt. Purely for medicinal purposes, mind you!

 

[Lyra500]

did OP have intention to kill who was behind the door, so Masipa accepted OP didn't know it was Reeva.

I think she is saying that the state did not prove he knew it was Reeva. That is not the same as what she believes, but one has to go with the rule of law.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Culpable homicide is 15 years plus the firearm charges.

Do the sentences run concurrently or one after the other?

If the former, that effectively means no punishment at all.

 

[revampz]

We all know they had a fight, she ran to the bathroom to get away from him, she was screaming and hiding from him, and in a fit of rage he blew four holes into that room...................and you wonder why lawyers are the most hate profession.

 

[minor4th]

She could still find him guilty of murder on dolus eventualis or culpable homicide

 

[Susza]

With what Masipa said until now, I believe she'll decide that OP killed with intention but not especially Reeva.

 

[HauntsForHope]

Dolus eventualis (indirect intention) exists when the possibility of a particular consequence or circumstance is foreseen, but there is a reckless disregard as to whether it ensues or not. For example, if A drives on the wrong side of the road in a busy street knowing that he might collide with other traffic, but not caring whether he does or not. Or, if B fires a revolver into the dark at night just for fun, it may well be that he does not intend killing anyone. If, however, he foresees that somebody may be killed if he pulls the trigger, he may have dolus eventualis if someone does die.
In both forms of intention the person knows that the action - or the consequen-ces of the action - are wrong. http://www.legalcity.net/Index.cfm?fuseaction=RIGHTS.article&ArticleID=1492628

 

[Giles]

I think the judgement is very well reasoned so far...

 

[zwiebel]

Barry Bateman (@barrybateman) tweeted at 12:14pm - 11 Sep 14:

#OscarTrial so far, an acquittal has been ruled out (he had criminal capacity and putative ruled out), so has pre-med and direct intention. (https://twitter.com/barrybateman/status/510008517923962880)

We are back in session