Trial Discussion Thread #52 - 14.11.9, Day 41 ~announcement of the verdict~

[TartLemon]

Also, sorry in advance, I am new to the forum, but I've seem load of people post BBM - what does that mean? Blackberry Message?

BBM is 'Bolded by me'. It is used especially when quoting to denote the original poster did not bold the segment, but the person quoting it did.

 

[Feynman]

I wonder why they even had a trial if she was going to believe 100% of OP's version.

Masipa said OP was a very poor witness, was evasive and outright lied. How do you get 100%?

 

[Lux et Veritas]

So far, Masipa has made NO mention of, nor asked questions regarding one especially crucial fact:

OP was never attacked or even remotely threatened.

The only blood he got on himself was his victim’s blood.

Attack or imminent attack is the key element required for a defense of putative self-defense - without it there can be no “self-defense”.

She is blatantly ignoring the gun laws (and every inconvenient, damning fact) in favor of her own bias.

She’s already ruled out automatism and lack of mental capacity as defenses.

That only leaves self-defense.

How does one rationally defend using four Black Talons against a mirage, an illusion, a “perception”, “terror”?

Masipa not only inexplicably defends OP’s fantasy that fear, sounds and noise equate with actual “attack” and “threat”, but worse, she gives it legal credence. (Where’s the legal precedence on that, My Lady?)

Taken to its logical conclusion - since ALL South Africans are (allegedly) afraid and constantly fearful of crime (what makes OP so freakin special?) - her ruling would give everyone carte blanche to commit murder with impunity - “I was scared.”

So, we are left with NO attack, NO threat and NO self-defense.

That leaves murder.

The only attacker that night was Oscar Pistorius.

 

[Cloen]

I clearly took it that it was crying because he escaped a murder charge...sheer relief.

I agree , Oscar was very very relieved, it was pent up stress coming out-and to the previous post, -I don't think he will be acquitted tomorrow, and I think he'll get a pretty long sentence, he won't be expecting.

 

[vanatos]

If your going to throw out eyewitness testimony (excuse me only state witnesses) because its a live trial.

Why don't you issue an order that the trial shouldn't have any eyewitness testimony? sure would save a bucketload of time and harassment for the witnesses themselves.

My respect of Masipa has gone.

 

[turaj]

Frankly I still can't really believe what I heard today. A judge saying that all witnesses should be discounted because some were sleepy...had the flu etc. etc. and the defendant's testimony should all be believed and a special mention of some testimony that she did give creedence to that Oscar was crying and begged the doctor to save Reeva. She never went to visit the actual site and on and on. I simply do not know how Reeva's family can even return tomorrow knowing whatever he gets is so much less than he should and watching him leave with his family to go to Uncle Arnold's estate and celebrate. I really don't think her dad will ever rebound from this..her mother seems much stronger.

 

[Z&BsMommy]

Everyone who is fortunate is exceptional to someone else. And many who are lost to violence become exceptional to those following their stories who come to love them. Reeva was beautiful, yes, but intelligent, warm, funny and very loving. She was known for having a huge heart. She helped to financially support her parents. She also had, in her own right, overcome a lot in her own lifetime. To her friends and family, she was very simply adored.

Much of that - who she really was - gets lost in the glare of Oscar's celebrity.

I learned more about Reeva through the neighbour's testimony - whom she hugged upon first meeting him - then I did in days of Oscar's testimony. Friends and family have been kind enough to share a bit of her with the world so for those who would like to know personally what made Reeva exceptional to those who loved her, and by extension a great many strangers, here you go:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/oscar-pistorius-trial-who-was-reeva-steenkamp-9725299.html
http://www.theweek.co.uk/people/osc...eva-steenkamp-life-and-death-of-a-rising-star
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-28349666
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHm4926kp9Y&index=8&list=PLb65SDpapC_mjY_PG2P9cOKFjPPMlx41C
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_alyttK-MU&index=3&list=PLb65SDpapC_mjY_PG2P9cOKFjPPMlx41C
http://www.news.com.au/world/oscar-...-reeva-steenkamp/story-fndir2ev-1227056060759
http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2013-02-14-the-reeva-i-knew/#.VBIa8fldVKM

[emoji26] Poor Reeva. She really seemed like she was just as beautiful inside as she was on the outside. From those who knew her, she was sweet, smart, and caring. She was an advocate for domestic violence victims, and in my opinion, would have really made a difference in this world.. She was exceptional, in the fact that she was a good person. She cared about other people, which is a rare quality nowadays. All only my opinion.

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

I clearly took it that it was crying because he escaped a murder charge...sheer relief.

Couldn't agree more! Tears of joy (and maybe incredulity) that he managed to convince the judge to believe his BS story!

 

[Madeleine74]

Considering OP is perhaps the most famous living person right now in SA and is a hero to most of the nation, I'm not sure Masipa has any long con game going. It seems like she just doesn't want to convict SA's favorite son of the most serious charge, even if what he did could fit. She has queued herself up to be able to have wide discretion in sentencing him, which could bring zero jail time. I don't think she did that for a later prosecution appeal--that seems extremely far-fetched to me.

I think she too is a fan of OP and wants to save him as best she can. All the prior talk about what a tough judge she is and how she holds killers accountable. Yeah, not so much.

Her convoluted and contradictory explanations of the case, the evidence, the witnesses lead in a circular path. This is not someone who logically went through the case, this sounds to me like someone making decisions based on emotion and bias. Sad but true.

As devastated as Reeva's parents must be, can you imagine how pizzed Nel must be? Months and months and months of preparation and for what? So the kindly old judge can give little Oscar a pat on the head for being a good boy?

 

[Fuskier]

FYI Australian Newscorp today:
http://www.news.com.au/world/legal-...ius-murder-trial/story-fndir2ev-1227056135837

Legal Experts Foreshadow An Appeal in the Oscar Pistorius Murder Trial
SEPTEMBER 12, 2014 8:59AM

ANALYSTS and leading legal experts have questioned the way the judge in the Oscar Pistorius trial interpreted murder and are foreshadowing an appeal by the State... "If the State believes that Judge Masipa erred at law in her judgment they can appeal to a higher court."

 

[turaj]

Couldn't agree more! Tears of joy (and maybe incredulity) that he managed to convince the judge to believe his BS story!

Yes I think even more incredulity.

 

[turaj]

So it seems Dr. Stipp will be Oscar's new best friend. Only one of all those people that the judge deemed credible. Did she ever consider that it is entirely possible and normal that OP would react the way he did upon the realization of what he had done? That in no way means he did not shot to kill whoever was in that small box of a room. Her reasoning seems so flawed. The judge will "redeem" herself tomorrow by finding him guilty of CH (almost a token verdict) and he will never spend a night in prison...one does not even have to tune in tomorrow to see the events but of course we all will!

 

[Madeleine74]

What was the psychologist's report on him? I wasn't following the case in the middle when all of that was occurring.

 

[Hope4More]

Aggg really????? And she couldn't mention this in court! Sickening!

ST says he had her sit on a naughty step? Snort.

 

[steveml]

Yes… very suspicious…. that 3:12AM is nowhere to be found… it was invented out of thin air and used in a material way to discredit key credible, reliable and corroborated witnesses.

Shame on you Masipa !!!!!!!!!

It was fairly obvious that everybody didn't stand around for nearly quarter of an hour listening to screaming before doing anything. All the neighbours would have to have been frozen in time. It was ridiculous that a start time of 3.02 (approx.) was ever considered. People just seemed to go with the flow because it was more useful in creating some kind of speculated version of events, benefiting prosecution.

The phone records do not lie, and it was simple to work backwards from these to realise how wide of the mark Annette Stipp's time really was. Nel had conceded as much during closing, hence his lacklustre delivery.

 

[Feynman]

Does sentencing occur tomorrow or at a later date?

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

I find it interesting that no legal expert has found that Masipa's judging so far has been just. Does anyone have any links showing support of her verdict by legal experts so far??

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

Does sentencing occur tomorrow or at a later date?

It will occur at a later date.

 

[AJ_DS]

It was fairly obvious that everybody didn't stand around for nearly quarter of an hour listening to screaming before doing anything. All the neighbours would have to have been frozen in time. It was ridiculous that a start time of 3.02 (approx.) was ever considered. People just seemed to go with the flow because it was more useful in creating some kind of speculated version of events, benefiting prosecution.

The phone records do not lie, and it was simple to work backwards from these to realise how wide of the mark Annette Stipp's time really was. Nel had conceded as much during closing, hence his lacklustre delivery.

OK… let us assume the 3:02 from annette Stipp is wrong

Show me how you get to 3:12 based on the evidence… working backwards as you say

 

[turaj]

Thanks, I just threw up in mouth a bit.. Such a monster. I hope karma gets him like it did O.J. imo

the green bucket please!!