Trial Discussion Thread #52 - 14.11.9, Day 41 ~announcement of the verdict~

[PrimeSuspect]

Just remembered, J Masipa was sold on OP's claim he thought it was an intruder, he said it from the start so it must be true.

 

[ShadyLady]

If premeditation can happen in seconds...and OP knew it was Jeeva behind door, it would have to be premeditation, right?

Even if he was raging, "crime of passion"? Does SA have "crimes of passion", and how do they determine "premeditation"? Any difference from us?

 

[AJ_DS]

Its not over until it is over. Personally, I am willing to wait until tomorrow and I'm willing to wait until the actual sentences are handed down; Masipa may yet surprise everyone here. I doubt that OP is resting as easy right now as some of his Internet supporters seem to be, he is still up for 30 years in prison for all of his crimes.

I am also anxious to see if the State will appeal any of the verdicts or the sentences, as I know that they have a right and responsibility to do if either or both are unjust. But at this point, today, we really don't know how hard Masipa will come down on OP, she certainly has not set him free, as many here seem to mistakenly believe, at this moment.

I'm not suggesting that Masipa will set OP free… not at all

If she gives OP a maximum sentence on all charges (i.e. 30 years)… Defence will have a very nice case for Appeal… which will be heard in more than a year or so… by that time people will have stopped caring… media focus will have shifted… and it will be an easy thing for a higher court judge to reduce the sentence to something OP and the Pistorians can live with.

… I very much doubt that OP would get 15 years for the gun charges… with any judge… with Masipa, probably a slap on the wrist

IMO

 

[A lucas]

Did she disregard the fact that Reeva has eaten around two hours earlier and not the eight hours earlier as
stated by OP?

 

[04009margaret]

Interestingly enough, IIRC neither Roux nor Oldwage were seen taking notes… as if they knew what the outcome would be !!

I will be glad to never have to see that smug pompous smirk on Oldwage's face again

 

[KarenUK]

Lighting a candle for Reeva tonight

 

[jslk]

Did she disregard the fact that Reeva has eaten around two hours earlier and not the eight hours earlier as
stated by OP?

Yes she said something about the science is in exact, of looking at the digestion and extrapolating timings.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[MeeBee]

Did she disregard the fact that Reeva has eaten around two hours earlier and not the eight hours earlier as
stated by OP?

She also said it doesn't prove they were both awake at the time and Reeva could have gone downstairs to eat while OP was sleeping.

 

[Viper]

I'm not suggesting that Masipa will set OP free… not at all

If she gives OP a maximum sentence on all charges (i.e. 30 years)… Defence will have a very nice case for Appeal… which will be heard in more than a year or so… by that time people will have stopped caring… media focus will have shifted… and it will be an easy thing for a higher court judge to reduce the sentence to something OP and the Pistorians can live with.

… I very much doubt that OP would get 15 years for the gun charges… with any judge… with Masipa, probably a slap on the wrist

IMO

If she gives him a standard 12 years sentence for CH, which I believe she will, OP will appeal and the State will also appeal, wanting a longer sentence and his conviction for Murder. The appellate court may justly increase his conviction to Murder and/or increase his sentence(s). OP is not going to walk free from his crimes, he is locked in the SA criminal justice system and Gerrie Nel is a freaking Pit Bull!

 

[fox1lady]

I'm not suggesting that Masipa will set OP free… not at all

If she gives OP a maximum sentence on all charges (i.e. 30 years)… Defence will have a very nice case for Appeal… which will be heard in more than a year or so… by that time people will have stopped caring… media focus will have shifted… and it will be an easy thing for a higher court judge to reduce the sentence to something OP and the Pistorians can live with.

… I very much doubt that OP would get 15 years for the gun charges… with any judge… with Masipa, probably a slap on the wrist

IMO

I don't think defence would dare to appeal for fear that OP would actually get a murder charge after all. I think they would cut their loses and take whatever he is given as long as he doesn't end up on a murder wrap!

 

[Z&BsMommy]

What an incredible waste of time and money.. Reeva, I am so sorry they let you down.. Fly
With the angels. You were an inspiration and the world is a colder place without you..

 

[Interested Bystander]

I don't believe double jeopardy applies to an appeal… whose result may be a murder conviction or a new trial

Thanks AJ. I couldn't get my head round it, having just been reading up on double jeopardy, but I can see why you are saying what you are.

I am sure I have read somewhere today that Nel needs to get his appeal in before judgement is given but I have read so much I cannot think where I saw it. Also, I cannot remember why he needs to do this. So much is buzzing through my poor old brain. I did wonder whether that is why court ended early today and he was seen to be furiously writing.

 

[IndianSummer]

THIS was so wrong, as someone mentioned earlier.
The shot to the head was last!
If you can send a signal to your brain to lift an arm you can send a signal to the brain to scream.
The judge said the below lightening fast then gave props to Oscar version???!!!


http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-verdict-recap-4199079
The judge is now talking about Reeva's injuries.
"The wound to the hip would have caused immediate instability, and the head wound would have been immediately incapacitating.
The deceased probably did not breathe for more than a few seconds after being shot in the head.
The shots were fired in quick succession, which suggests Reeva would not have had time to scream or shout,
The only other person who could have screamed was the accused."

 

[Interested Bystander]

I'm not suggesting that Masipa will set OP free… not at all

If she gives OP a maximum sentence on all charges (i.e. 30 years)… Defence will have a very nice case for Appeal… which will be heard in more than a year or so… by that time people will have stopped caring… media focus will have shifted… and it will be an easy thing for a higher court judge to reduce the sentence to something OP and the Pistorians can live with.



… I very much doubt that OP would get 15 years for the gun charges… with any judge… with Masipa, probably a slap on the wrist

IMO

I am hoping he will get at least 10 years for CH but I think he may only be fined for the gun charges . If there is an appeal and his charge is upgraded that is all to the good. How on earth could Masipa not properly have taken into account what a known compulsive liar he is.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

:deepbreaths:


Alex Crawford @AlexCrawfordSky


There was discrepancies with witnesses' recollection and the phone records. Judge is going to rely on records.


Judge says Pistorius denied the allegations that he killed the accused intentionally.
"(He said) when he armed himself with his firearm and fired into the toilet door he was acting in the mistaken belief that the deceased ... was an intruder who threatened his life and that of the deceased," she said.


(Oh come on, NO ONE threatened his life. smh)


Judge Masipa says given the horrific injuries, the "deceased would have been unable to shout or scream, at least not in the manner described by those witnesses who were adamant that they heard a woman scream repeatedly."
"The only other person who could have screamed is the accused," she says. "The question is, why did he scream."


Judge Masipa now moves onto the accused's version.

"His evidence is important. He is only one who can tell court what happened."

She goes through the details of his version, so often repeated.

Judge Masipa: "On the version of the accused it was not quite clear whether he intended to shoot or not."
This was complicated by psychological evidence that suggested he may have a generalised anxiety disorder reducing his criminal culpability.


(CONTRADICTION)

In essence, Judge Masipa says Pistorius didn’t have an anxiety disorder at time of the shooting, so could tell right from wrong.

Judge Masipa says Oscar Pistorius did not foresee possibilty he would kill person behind door let alone realise it was the deceased.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/oscar-p...outh-africa-20140911-3fa7g.html#ixzz3D2FuESJP


andrew harding ✔ @BBCAndrewH

Four armed policemen stand at the front of the courtroom. We've not seen that before. It adds an extra chill to the proceedings.

 

[Carol70]

I am hoping he will get at least 10 years for CH but I think he may only be fined for the gun charges . If there is an appeal and his charge is upgraded that is all to the good. How on earth could Masipa not properly have taken into account what a known compulsive liar he is.

Yep, don't anyone hold your breathe about any jail time for the gun charges...looking at fine and/or sentence that will be suspended. Gun licence revoked.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Did she disregard the fact that Reeva has eaten around two hours earlier and not the eight hours earlier as
stated by OP?

J Masipa said the findings of the stomach contents was not an exact science, so she dismissed it entirely.

 

[RosieC]

Can anyone tell me where does 3:12AM time for the gunshots comes from ?

From what evidence was this time derived from ?

It comes from Barry Roux's say so. Because it was common cause that shots preceded bat strikes, Roux worked backward on how much time Oscar needed to do the sequence under his version before batting down the door.

The timing of the final set of sounds was based on calls to security, etc. Mr Johnson's time of call does not quite synchronise, but there is no reason why the different time monitor could not have been a minute or so fast.

At least I think this is right. I stopped taking notes on Masipa. I reckon the time of the sounds was circa 03:15, but these were shots. Ear witnesses and recorded times of calls are corroborating evidence.

It was Nel's mistake to agree shots before bat. It wasn't what the expert witness testified, and a clever judge could have seen past this by careful reading of evidence.

And it was a miracle that 4 people wide awake and distressed by the (imagined) sounds of a woman screaming all failed to hear the gunshots, but heard the bat strikes a couple of minutes later, which also caused a chorus of dogs to bark.

And Mrs Stipp either was psychic and heard the sounds about 10 minutes before they occurred, or she made a mistake in looking at her clock, in the latter case Ms Burger and Mr Johnson were awake and did not hear the shots but from that great distance heard the bat.

Not only that, but Ms Burger is a musician with a good ear for tempo. Having failed to hear the shots she heard the last sound, which was the bat. It went bang, then pause, then quick succession 3 bangs, a miracle bat, how can it be struck so quickly? And she must have been psychic as well, because her tempo matched exactly the state's carefully argued tempo of the shots, by expert witness Capt Mangena, not known to her when she discussed this with her husband just after the shooting, and this ignored by Judge Masipa.

I have written about this http://www.biznews.com/oscar-pistorius-trial/2014/05/oscar-pistorius-i-know-what-really-happened/

What would public reaction be if an Afrikaaner male judge issued this verdict? I think the argument today reflects badly on Judge Masipa. Perhaps people are reluctant to say so, because of the enormous good will toward her, which I also feel. But there are too many questionable conclusions and lines of reasoning.

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

Cannot be Jonhson or Burger… because they never heard the first set of bangs… they only heard the second set.

Anybody else have an idea ????

This is shocking! She claimed that she used technology to piece together the timeline, but she never said how she made the 3:12-3:14 deduction - from what/who/where?????

 

[Hope4More]

Yes… very suspicious…. that 3:12AM is nowhere to be found… it was invented out of thin air and used in a material way to discredit key credible, reliable and corroborated witnesses.

Shame on you Masipa !!!!!!!!!

I'm really having a problem with the accusations being levelled against Judge Masipa- everything from being bribed to lying to making up law to being guided by public opinion to caving into threats.

Almost all of those assertions are baseless allegations of criminal conduct by a sitting judge and are IMO way out of bounds.

The allegations are also entirely unhelpful in understanding her reasoning, even for the purpose of disagreeing with her. Jmo.