Trial Discussion Thread #52 - 14.11.9, Day 41 ~announcement of the verdict~

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Just read there is no minimum time for CH. That means Masipa can give him zero jail time if she wants to or up to 5 years on each charge.

I have a bad feeling he is going to get fined only.
 
I thought when Roux presented his HOA, they had the stronger timeline and the state had missed a trick.

I believe there is lots of circumstantial evidence that points to murder but without a stronger timeline, they gave the defence a chance to exploit it.

I will never be convinced that four independent witnesses all mistook male/female screams or gunshots for cricket bat strikes.

Very strange.
 
Yep, don't anyone hold your breathe about any jail time for the gun charges...looking at fine and/or sentence that will be suspended. Gun licence revoked.

Seems like Carol70 knows the "system " in SA and I would agree with her prediction.
 
A few Twitter users cracked jokes about the finding that Pistorius was acquitted of murder.

"What does England and Oscar Pistorius have in common? Looks like both will get away Scot free," said @HarryBedfont.

User @Officialben_ said: "Now Oscar Pistorius has been found innocent I still don't think anyone will risk throwing him a surprise party?"

"Wow! The Pope has apparently called for Oscar Pistorius's lawyer to be named a saint, as he has officially made a crippled man walk today," said @jamster83.
 
Geezus. I don't know if I can stand Round 2.

My head is still spinning, trying desperately to make the tiniest sense of Masipa's judicial chaos.

I'm already exhausted, got 4.5 hours sleep and now have a freakin splitting headache.

What an unmitigated disaster. :mad:
 
http://www.iol.co.za/the-star/far-too-many-men-get-away-with-murder-1.1749197#.VBH9yFway0c

'Too Many Men Get Away With Murder'
Article from NGO 'Sonke Gender Justice'

- In South Africa, more than 1000 women are killed by an intimate partner every year.
- A 2009 Medical Research Council study shows that a great majority of female homicides in South Aftica go unpunished, with less than 38% of intimate partner femicides leading to conviction in less than two years
 
The moral of the story: if you are a bonafide sports hero, you can get away with murder.
 
One last throw of the dice tomorrow, justice for reeva and family seems far off at the moment, i just hope the judge has made it difficult for a appeal due to the ruling today totally ignoring witnesses experts and legal stuff to come down on op with max jail time of 15 yrs for ch, alas it wouldn't surprise me if it was 15 days the way its gone today
 
Did she disregard the fact that Reeva has eaten around two hours earlier and not the eight hours earlier as
stated by OP?

Yes, she said drawing conclusions about the stomach contents was unreliable.
 
I cannot for the life of me fathom how Judge Masipa could have come to the finding that Oscar did not foresee that he might kill the person behind that door whether she believed his version or the Prosecuton's - 4 shots = INTENT - every Legal Pundit who has commented since the end of Court today seems to be gobsmacked that she didn't Rule Dolus Eventualis - it's clear cut they say. The Judge seemed to take Oscar's testimony that he didn't know it was Reeva,then criticised him for being a poor witness , thus contradicted herself ! My jaw dropped ! She believed witnesses who say they heard Oscar crying, Van der Merves? but dismissed Mrs Van der Merves? testimony that she heard shouting like an argument going on , that it could have been anything to do with Oscar and Reeva ! So she was selective in which testimonies she cherry picked to believe - I think there's a HUGE chance that Nel will Appeal the Culpable Homicide Ruling- he definitely will if she doesn't give him a minimum 8 year prison sentence, which was the word going around yesterday - minimum 8-10 years. I don't think it would be Justice for Reeva and her family if he only served half of that or got lessor sentence come the actual Sentencing in few weeks time.

One shot, yes I could see how Judge Masipa could have reached the Verdict- BUT 4 ?? into that tiny toilet cubicle. The Judge even went through his testimony saying he had time to make an alternative decision than firing at that door. Is her verdict something to do with the transfering of A to B and Oscar meant to kill A but person B dies ? or some legality like that. Masipa did explain the Legal terminology - I got a bit confused by that, but this MUST be why she reached a Culpable Homicide Verdict surely ? As I am shocked.

The Law in SA is just messed up ! What a mockery- It pained me to see Oldwage and Roux looking so smug and the camera pan to the pain in Reeva's family and friends faces. Nel should have addressed the timeline, that was always going to be an issue, the Defence did, and Nel should have pre-empted that. It did seem to me that to discount all the witness evidence seemed wrong, yet she believed Stipp , one witness, and Carice only on the state of Oscar's emotional state after the fact. Oscar made enough calls to get the advice before they arrived. There was only ONE excuse to use for him for what he'd done and it's SA, so of course it was going to be he mistook her for a 'BURGLAR'- so he knew , or was told to :
1) open the bathroom window if you want to convince the police you thought Reeva was an intruder
2) make sure you tell anyone arriving at the scene ie Standers ,you thought Reeva was an intruder and anyone arriving thereafter
3) Don't speak to the police , let Oldwage, the family Lawyer deal with everything from now on.

I hope Nel Appeals this Charge and any sentence, and a Judge who isn't afraid to Charge Oscar Pistorius with Murder does so, because that's what the evidence throughout the Trial showed and what 4 shots is = minimum Dolus Eventualis.

I watched Judge Masipa's face when she was speaking and when she got to the Murder Charge of Dolus and Eventualis, she looked to go bit red-faced to me and was not as sure of herself as when she had started today- it was as if she knew something more but wasn't saying, it was as if it was with reluctance she said what she did not finding him Guilty of Murder without Intent OR I don't know whether that was just me, but either she was under pressure or she just has read it all so wrong having only had 7 years experience, and so have the two Assessors.
 
Basically, Masipa rejects everything from prosecution : witnesses, experts and physical evidence

She only keeps from the prosecution :

1- Johnson's estimation of 3:12AM for the time he woke up and heard a woman screaming… does not care how this estimation was arrived at… and attributes it to the gunshots even if that was not at all the case and it's contradicted by other evidence.

2- Johnson's 3:16AM for the call to security and 58 seconds call duration… does not care that this info does not come from server detailed billing but Johnson's own phone clock… does not care that Johnson said he was not sure whether 3:16 was the start time or the end time of the phone call but Masipa decides it will be the start time… no matter that other corroborated reliable evidence points to 3:15 for the gunshots… Masipa prefers 3:17.

… that's basically it… everything else is rejected because unreliable !!

The rest is all from the Defence.

Even when she must conclude OP was not credible, she adopts his version anyway.
 
It's awful when a judge shows herself to be as dumb as the Pinellas 12.

She is demonstrating a willful disregard for following the law or otherwise bending it to meet the outcome she wants.
 
frankly I would never get up in the middle of the night (here in US) to hear more of this. Will wake up tomorrow and come here for the rest of the story which will see him get some hand slapping taken care of with money. I keep thinking that Roux did not even put up a case really. I still think Gerry Nel was excellent and admire him for seeking justice despite all the obstacles of the system. I sort of feel all parties knew the results before they even came in today.
 
I felt for reevas mum and dad today so bitterly disappointed at the system
I hope the judge pulls another surprise tomorrow by jailing op for max time...alas........
 
Basically, Masipa rejects everything from prosecution : witnesses, experts and physical evidence

She only keeps from the prosecution :

1- Johnson's estimation of 3:12AM for the time he woke up and heard a woman screaming… does not care how this estimation was arrived at… and attributes it to the gunshots even if that was not at all the case and it's contradicted by other evidence.

2- Johnson's 3:16AM for the call to security and 58 seconds call duration… does not care that this info does not come from server detailed billing but Johnson's own phone clock… does not care that Johnson said he was not sure whether 3:16 was the start time or the end time of the phone call but Masipa decides it will be the start time… no matter that other corroborated reliable evidence points to 3:15 for the gunshots… Masipa prefers 3:17.

… that's basically it… everything else is rejected because unreliable !!

The rest is all from the Defence.

Even when she must conclude OP was not credible, she adopts his version anyway.

I wonder why they even had a trial if she was going to believe 100% of OP's version.
 
There is something very strange about the way Masipa stopped so suddenly today, she seemed right on the verge of her decision regarding Culpable Homicide and pretty much just got up and left.
 
I have to share this. I am laughing here, but I guess it is not funny. But it is. In researching this judge earlier, Wikipedia came up on a google search, so I clicked onto the article. Lo and behold, I learned the judge's middle name is "Pistorius". How strange, I thought.

I read the article and when it came to the part about what her peers think of her, the article stated she is "considered to be a loose cannon", is becoming senile, etc. And this was footnoted by two articles. So I go to each article and read them. Neither has a bad thing to say about the judge. Quite the opposite, she is said to be highly respected by her peers within these articles.

So I then go back to the Wikipedia article. No more derogatory statements. I am beginning to wonder if I am really, really sleep deprived here. Then I glance up and there is no "Pistorius" as the judge's middle name.

Upon checking the history of the Wikipedia article, it was hacked. Cleverly hacked. And with some humor. As in "Pistorius" was her middle name.... Oi Vey! I can't believe I fell for it!

------------------------
Here is what I fell for:

"The State vs Oscar Pistorius

Masipa is the presiding judge in the trial of Oscar Pistorius for the murder of Reeva Steenkamp and several gun-related charges which commenced in the High Court in Pretoria on 3 March 2014.[8][22] She appointed two assessors to assist her in the trial.[23] According to the spokesperson for the South African judiciary, she was not specially assigned to the case because of her gender.[24][25] Following her assignment to the high-profile case, her colleagues reportedly described her as senile, loose canon, incompetent, eloquent-but-misguided and needs to be removed from her post.[8][26]"
 
I am also sure there were other witnesses in Silverwoods who didn't want to get involved, and I don't just mean Frank, in my opinion.
I also think that if Oscar had only fired one shot this Judge would have acquitted him. She can't now because he fired 4 shots, as she would come under a lot of criticism as to her professional Judgement, it would be too obvious. I didn't want to be cynical about the Judge's Ruling, as I thought she was quiet, calm and collected and had taken it all in , and would do the right thing for Reeva. It has sadly gone completely the other way today, and I am so very disappointed in her , the Assessors and sad for Reeva's family.
 
I wonder why they even had a trial if she was going to believe 100% of OP's version.

and look at the time it took...at every possible moment the judge was granting delays...not days but weeks on end and Roux was never ready with witnesses....the whole thing sure did not impress me and in fact made me have a higher regard for our jury system. As much as I'd like to see OP held 100% accountable given the situation I don't think it will happen with appeals etc. and wonder if the Steenkamp family should just try to accept the system and try to move on. I know that sounds stupid...but Mr. Steenkamp's health is not great and I think they have just been through enough...I think at some point OP will get his due someway...just like OJ. I hop the earlier comments are true that he will be unable to resume his sports hero life.
 
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