Trial Discussion Thread #53 - 14.12.9, Day 42 ~ final verdict~

[JudgeJudi]

Wait.. I thought sentencing would take place 2 or 3 weeks from now. ?

Sentencing starts Monday 13 October through to Friday 17 October. Mark your diaries everyone.

OP is expected to call family members, social worker, psychologist and friends re mitigation, and unlike the trial, they will testify first. The State is expected to call the most witnesses.

 

[jay-jay]

All I can say is .... Wow ! Wow ! Wow ! South African women needed this case, judged by a woman to say to men that NO it is not OK to beat up women and abuse and rape them or even kill them. A woman judge has turned her back on her 'sistas' and let a man (no matter who or what standing) get away with this. I say shame...shame....shame. South African women, I am so sorry. I do not know how but you have to respond. I do not know how but I really think that you should.

Absolutely!

Also, what has annoyed me today is that JM has made professional women look stupid, as if they are not able to do their jobs properly, because she certainly hasn't .. yet she was supposed to be a professional. So not only has she done a huge disservice to women in abusive relationships, she has done a disservice to professional women, too .. it's been a bad, bad day all round, really!

 

[Viper]

Here is today's video production of and by Arnold, for all you masochists out there:

http://youtu.be/CWrBKFj61DQ

uke:

 

[turaj]

Sentencing starts Monday 13 October through to Friday 17 October. Mark your diaries everyone.

OP is expected to call family members, social worker, psychologist and friends re mitigation, and unlike the trial, they will testify first. The State is expected to call the most witnesses.

Well...I am not sure I can stomach that...all singing the praises of poor Oscar...no don't want to see that...so I thought the judge was coming back on the 13th with the sentence but now it seems it goes all week and then given the history here won't "Milady" need another month to decide after hearing the witnesses (which the ones for the prosecution might as well stay home as they will be discounted anyway)?

 

[turaj]

Here is today's video production of and by Arnold, for all you masochists out there:

http://youtu.be/CWrBKFj61DQ

uke:

Thanks but NO THANKS~

 

[Giles]

Legal Discussion after court proceedings from Channel 199 (audio)
Bongani Bingwa with David Dadic and James Aveyard:
https://soundcloud.com/giles-10/bongani-1/s-N4Uuj

Legal Discussion - William Booth with Bongani, Channel 199 (audio):

https://soundcloud.com/giles-10/william-booth/s-6p35r

 

[JudgeJudi]

So if there is an appeal, Judge Masipa will hear it? Be the one to decide if her own decision was correct?

No, they will seek leave to appeal from Masipa. She won't hear the appeal. If she grants leave to appeal it will be heard by either the full court of the High Court (3 judges) or could go straight to the Supreme Court of Appeal.

 

[soozieqtips]

Here is today's video production of and by Arnold, for all you masochists out there:

http://youtu.be/CWrBKFj61DQ

uke:

"We always knew the facts of this case, and we always believed in Oscar's version".

Then how come they said they'd never heard the full facts until OP was actually on the stand? And which of Oscar's versions is Arnold talking about?

 

[soozieqtips]

Well...I am not sure I can stomach that...all singing the praises of poor Oscar...no don't want to see that...so I thought the judge was coming back on the 13th with the sentence but now it seems it goes all week and then given the history here won't "Milady" need another month to decide after hearing the witnesses (which the ones for the prosecution might as well stay home as they will be discounted anyway)?

She may as well save court time and simply email all interested parties to say OP will not be spending a second in jail.

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...car-pistoriuss-fate-in-her-hands-9715986.html

I think Judge Masipa's "gentle limp" ... some say from polio and others from a broken femur ... played a part in her view of OP. Reading there of her very humble beginnings totally powerless to an oppressive state, I also wonder whether there's a satisfying "stick it to the man" aspect to her decision too.

"Matilda Masipa is still known as “Tilly” to those who knew her when she was younger. Thokozile, her Zulu name emerged – as it did for many in the struggle – some time in the aftermath of the night she spent on the cold floor of a prison cell, covered for warmth in pages of her own newspaper, refusing to clean the built-up excrement of previous prisoners from the cell toilet."

 

[KarenUK]

Here is today's video production of and by Arnold, for all you masochists out there:

http://youtu.be/CWrBKFj61DQ

uke:

Mind if I give it a miss?

 

[4MrsB]

Well indeed that would be very interesting...hopefully someone can confirm that is her.

Here is a LINK to a picture of Carice Viljoen (Stander), so you can take a guess whether or not you think it might have been her sitting in front row today, next to Aimee. I think the person looked a lot like Carice. She is a very attractive gal. A lawyer now I believe, but previously did some modeling. I believe this picture is from a "wedding shoot" she did awhile back (not from her own wedding).

PICTURE (Carice Stander/Viljoen): http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/carice.jpg

 

[Forensics]

The state appears severely disappointed by the judgement.

"I don't have words, it's pathetic," says police photographer Bennie van Staden after the court proceedings are adjourned.

http://news.yahoo.com/pistorius-verdict-live-report-103229826.html

 

[Mr Fossil]

"JUDGE MASIPA GOT IT RIGHT: Oscar Pistorius and the intention to kill"

http://thelawthinker.com/judge-masipa-got-it-right-oscar-pistorius-and-the-intention-to-kill/

Explains Masipa's rationale (in the writer's view) and why an appeal may not work. Oh dear. The more I read the more I'm beginning to feel that the State did not do enough to satisfy the stringent tests of the law. I shall have to keep hoping that either the writer is wrong or Masipa hands down a harsh sentence for CH.

 

[james83]

Apparently the Pistorius family gave Masipa a RAND of applause when she left court earlier.

 

[4MrsB]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...car-pistoriuss-fate-in-her-hands-9715986.html

I think Judge Masipa's "gentle limp" ... some say from polio and others from a broken femur ... played a part in her view of OP. Reading there of her very humble beginnings totally powerless to an oppressive state, I also wonder whether there's a satisfying "stick it to the man" aspect to her decision too.

I'm of the thinking that "political pressure" & influence from her superiors had more to do with it. The Pistorius Family influence, connections & deep pockets seem to run deep in S.A.

Remember OP's rant at the VIP lounge (think that was the name), while arguing with the guy who ended up shoving him? . . . "My family owns Zuma" (something along those lines). Referring to Jacob Zuma, President of South Africa.

Heck...maybe they do! Nothing about this family & their connections would surprise me at this point.

 

[mirage1]

ETA I think I can answer this for myself. Whether he probably foresaw is not important legally, it is whether he reasonably possibly did not foresee and acted regardless of the consequences that is at the heart of this. Masipa feels that the State did not plug this hole. He fired at the door but she cannot prove that, at the time, he reasonably possibly believed he would kill someone. It is the law that is the problem here.

The number of changes I keep making to this show how confused I am!

No matter how you write the law, at the end of the day its upto subjective interpretation. Oscar admitted to firing at intruders coming out in self defence, which is my opinion goes well beyond the 'foresee possibly' threshhold, its demonstration of intent to kill.

Now the judge had concluded it a reasonable possibility he did not 'foresee possibly', when he shot 4 times into the toilet. I can't see what holes there are to plug or what is wrong with the law. Oscar admitted to shooting at a door, what else can you say to prove? She, for some reason gives Oscar unbelievable benefit of the doubt that is implausible. Even if you totally accept Oscar's story, he still murdered someone, according to the law imo.

Any grown adult knows that if you shoot at someone there is a possibility you will kill them, yet ultimately the judge concluded there is a reasonable possibility that Oscar does not know shooting 4 times at someone at close range could possibly kill them.

 

[mirage1]

Apparently the Pistorius family gave Masipa a RAND of applause when she left court earlier.

And probably a few $ as well.

 

[Forensics]

No, they will seek leave to appeal from Masipa. She won't hear the appeal. If she grants leave to appeal it will be heard by either the full court of the High Court (3 judges) or could go straight to the Supreme Court of Appeal.

That's as I understand it.....also if Masipa does not grant the appeal, an application can be made directly to the Supreme Court of Appeal (to be dealt with by two judges on the record of the proceedings) and they may either grant leave to appeal or refuse the petition.

 

[aa9511]

Ah, well. Let's see what this grand sentence will be. Probably, go do some community service (in the comfort of your home, you can just do something online Oscar), and then you are done with everything.

Whatever. And why the heck is he not in jail to wait for his sentence?? Whatever again. They can just take the 30 or whatever days he spent in jail and subtract it from his sentence. Anyway, guess that means he PROBABLY won't be getting any jail time at all.