Trial Discussion Thread #53 - 14.12.9, Day 42 ~ final verdict~

[ApplesInMyBra]

Well, at least there is a bit of fallout for OP

"Nike has terminated its second endorsement contract in a week. First, Ray Rice. Now Oscar Pistorius." https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/510939359240261632

They're just now terminating his contract??????????? WTF????

 

[vansleuths]

They're just now terminating his contract??????????? WTF????

I know, they suspended it, now cancelled it. Hopefully other advertisers will do the same seeing he has been convicted. I can't see a major brand wanting to be associated with a felon.

 

[mister happy]

I agree about dolus directus. Please see my articles in biznews. http://www.biznews.com/oscar-pistorius-trial/2014/05/oscar-pistorius-i-know-what-really-happened/

However Gerrie Nel did not argue the case sufficiently for this to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. I am busy scribbling away on this issue and hope to publish further. However I could not see how the case for dolus eventualist could be anything but a slam dunk, unless putative self defence or mental incapacity was accepted.

I agree Masipa was worrying. I expected her to ask Barry Roux which verdict he recommended. I also have to say, I am not a conspiracy theory junkie, however a seemingly sane and rational person told me back in April I think it was, that he learnt that Pistorius's uncle bought the trial and it would be Not Guilty and non-custodial sentence with a life ban on owning firearms. I found it too incredible then, and supposed it little more than rumour. Now I am baffled. I wish I'd put a tenner or more on it though. I would have got good odds - then, not now.

BBM. Did this person give his detailed reasons? I'm curious to know the background of the info. If you don't want to answer, that's cool.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Sky News special on right now examining the relationship OP had with Reeva.

ETA - it's more of a look back at his early life.

Aren't you just so sick and tired of hearing about his life. From the moment this murder happened it has and still is always about him. Reeva doesn't have a life and the lives of her parents, family and friends have been ruined.

I live in hope that Nel can and does appeal and that he's convicted of murder. In the alternative, his family appeals any conviction with the same result.

As for Masipa, when she hands down her sentence for CH we'll have a pretty good idea as to whether the assessors overruled her on the facts because if this is the case, only Masipa determines the verdict and she'll give him the maximum.

That only leaves the question of whether or not pressure, from any source, has been put on her. Surely the massive adverse international outcry has got to be more important than that of her own government. After all, she's 66 and judges in most countries have to retire at age 70. As so many have said, she's a person of the utmost integrity. If she gives him a light sentence her name and reputation will go down in the history books for all the wrong reasons and world opinion on the judicial system in SA will be tarnished immeasurably for the foreseeable future. More importantly, it gives the green light for intimate partner murders to increase and provides precedents for possible defences ... take your pick which one.

I live in hope, albeit small.

 

[jacalyn]

BIB

I believe that even the worst prisoners in the world deserve to be treated humanely or it puts society at their level.

But, I feel that while many don't care if OP's safety can't be guaranteed in a South African prison, that's besides the point. I can tell you who does care about OP's safety.

This trial is now much more then just a murder trial. This will become politicized. Who does care if OP's safety can't be guaranteed in a South African prison is the South African government. The last thing they want is OP to die in prison His name is now known around the world and if their prison systems are viewed negatively with OP dying, the government will feel the political pressure from the United Nations for the ill treatment of inmates and this in turn could turn could result in lost investments from other countries.

South Africa is a country that relies heavily on foreign aid and cannot allow this loss of revenue. South African prison reforms would of course be a good thing, but this costs money that SA does not have. It's sad but true.

We've already heard OP say that he has government officials in their back pocket.

Lets make it a win, win situation. Put Oscar in jail and his family will invest million in improvements. Perhaps Veal Oscar will be served on china, with cloth napkins for dinner.

 

[vansleuths]

Lets make it a win, win situation. Put Oscar in jail and his family will invest million in improvements. Perhaps Veal Oscar will be served on china, with cloth napkins for dinner.

I'm up for that, makes OP pay for his crime and puts family money to good use. Win win

 

[turaj]

I agree about dolus directus. Please see my articles in biznews. http://www.biznews.com/oscar-pistorius-trial/2014/05/oscar-pistorius-i-know-what-really-happened/

However Gerrie Nel did not argue the case sufficiently for this to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. I am busy scribbling away on this issue and hope to publish further. However I could not see how the case for dolus eventualist could be anything but a slam dunk, unless putative self defence or mental incapacity was accepted.

I agree Masipa was worrying. I expected her to ask Barry Roux which verdict he recommended. I also have to say, I am not a conspiracy theory junkie, however a seemingly sane and rational person told me back in April I think it was, that he learnt that Pistorius's uncle bought the trial and it would be Not Guilty and non-custodial sentence with a life ban on owning firearms. I found it too incredible then, and supposed it little more than rumour. Now I am baffled. I wish I'd put a tenner or more on it though. I would have got good odds - then, not now.

Along those same lines....anyone else think it odd that on that first day when it was read that he was NOT GUILTY of murdering Reeva...ie the most serious of the charges the family seemed very matter of fact and while pleased...if that had been my brother/nephew and he was spared of this charge I would be sobbing out of relief and frankly disbelief. I think the Pistorius family knew the verdict before it was read...they just seemed a bit too calm.

 

[RosieC]

The idea of Pistorius writing a book is just wrong. South Africa needs to also introduce a law where the convicted cannot profit from their crime, especially given the extremely high rate of homicide.

I agree it's quite distasteful. However if the Steenkamps can bring a civil case against Pistorius, and win, they can grab his money, putting it to a charity on domestic violence would be a great statement, as well as a good cause.

 

[JudgeJudi]

#oscargoeshollywood #please #stopbeingab*tch #manup #movie to follow I'm sure. #tears #ohplease #smh #weakass #triggahappy #trigga #murderer #premeditated #murder #masipa #poor #judgement

h13 LIKES, u0 USERS IN PHOTO, CPHOTO FILTER BY NORMAL

And he used to tell Reeva that chewing gum was bad for your image!!!!!!! I really need a large green bucket.

 

[turaj]

Well, at least there is a bit of fallout for OP

"Nike has terminated its second endorsement contract in a week. First, Ray Rice. Now Oscar Pistorius." https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/510939359240261632

i thought that contract was gone long ago...

 

[turaj]

Aren't you just so sick and tired of hearing about his life. From the moment this murder happened it has and still is always about him. Reeva doesn't have a life and the lives of her parents, family and friends have been ruined.

I live in hope that Nel can and does appeal and that he's convicted of murder. In the alternative, his family appeals any conviction with the same result.

As for Masipa, when she hands down her sentence for CH we'll have a pretty good idea as to whether the assessors overruled her on the facts because if this is the case, only Masipa determines the verdict and she'll give him the maximum.

That only leaves the question of whether or not pressure, from any source, has been put on her. Surely the massive adverse international outcry has got to be more important than that of her own government. After all, she's 66 and judges in most countries have to retire at age 70. As so many have said, she's a person of the utmost integrity. If she gives him a light sentence her name and reputation will go down in the history books for all the wrong reasons and world opinion on the judicial system in SA will be tarnished immeasurably for the foreseeable future. More importantly, it gives the green light for intimate partner murders to increase and provides precedents for possible defences ... take your pick which one.

I live in hope, albeit small.

I wonder if the national opinion is more important than international? I must say she is one old looking 66. I thought she was over 70. I know she has had a hard life and while I did not find her to be very interesting to watch or listen to tried to think certainly she would do the right thing here...did not happen

 

[jilly]

Along those same lines....anyone else think it odd that on that first day when it was read that he was NOT GUILTY of murdering Reeva...ie the most serious of the charges the family seemed very matter of fact and while pleased...if that had been my brother/nephew and he was spared of this charge I would be sobbing out of relief and frankly disbelief. I think the Pistorius family knew the verdict before it was read...they just seemed a bit too calm.

They were "matter of fact" "pleased" and cocky at the end of the trial too. So something is definitely going on here.

 

[Fuskier]

IMO - it is now the responsibility of the NPA and legal advocates in SA and in the international legal community - to apply adequate pressure to bring about an Appeal of this Judgement - given that many believe that the Judge in this case has made an error in Law. This case was important for the SA justice system.
The world is watching.

Allegations of corruption are concerning: Was Masipa then given 'the poison chalice" so to speak? She was a woman Judge who arose from black SA.
Was she then vulnerable to powerful influences 'beyond her control'? Was she a poor legal scholar as some have claimed? How did these alleged 'errors in Law' come about? An Appeal to a higher authority seems warranted, but will this higher authority be subjected to those same powerful influences? Will this woman Judge become a 'scapegoat'? Was her judgement influenced?

Could corruption be reasonably possibly true in this case? Error interpreting the Law? Then it is up to the NPA to move forward with an Appeal in the interest of Justice here.

My opinion only.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Just listened to the verdict on count 4 - illegal possession of ammunition. Another bizarre verdict. So it's ok to have a load of ammo in your house without a licence as long as you say it's someone else's - just because it's stored in your house for years it doesn't mean you 'possess' it, apparently. The onus is on the prosecution to prove you had the mental intention/animus to possess it - the fact that it's sitting in your safe is clearly not enough.

That weirdness must just be a reflection of a gun worshipping culture.

Amongst the guns he had on order were 2 revolvers. Please correct me if I'm wrong but didn't one of these use .38 bullets. He should have been found guilty of the illegal ammunition charge. In one of the radio broadcasts (sorry, no link) it was stated that this ammo had been there for years and that it was not okay to be in possession in those circumstances. Judge Greenland also stated that he had never before heard animus as used by the defence being used in this way.

 

[4MrsB]

i thought that contract was gone long ago...

They're just now terminating his contract??????????? WTF????

Originally, in Feb 2013, Nike "suspended" Oscar's contract, as did Oakley (as I'm sure all the sponsors did). Nike has now announced it has "terminated" Oscar's contract.

I guess it's actually the same thing really. They just "suspended" it initially (ads stopped, $$ stopped) waiting for all the facts/evidence to be presented before slamming the door for good.(Hopefully, Oakley will be making the same announmemt soon - although they may have already terminated his contract, as opposed to being suspended, long ago.)

 

[vansleuths]

Originally, in Feb 2013, Nike "suspended" Oscar's contract, as did Oakley (as I'm sure all the sponsors did). Nike has now announced it has "terminated" Oscar's contract.

I guess it's actually the same thing really. They just "suspended" it initially (ads stopped, $$ stopped) waiting for all the facts/evidence to be presented before slamming the door for good.(Hopefully, Oakley will be making the same announmemt soon - although they may have already terminated his contract, as opposed to being suspended, long ago.)

This article is from 2013 and says " Now it's being reported that Oakley has cancelled its contract with Pistorius "

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/20/oscar-pistorius-dropped-sponsors

 

[aa9511]

I don't blame Nel for being furious, I'm sure he is realising that all his hard work, his excellent reasoning, his commitment to justice for the victim was actually falling on deaf ears as he spoke. The fact that OP, the star witness and killer, proved himself a liar on the stand obviously tailoring his evidence as he went along was IMO the greatest pointer of all to guilt. Yet the courageous State witnesses who came forward in the interests if Justice, and had no reason at all to lie, their testimony was immediately discounted and discredited , written off as worthless by the Judge![/QUOTE]

bbm

ITA. Even the good doctor was so swayed by "media reports" that he somehow managed to brainwash himself into thinking he heard and saw things which he didn't really hear or see.

 

[aa9511]

IMO - it is now the responsibility of the NPA and legal advocates in SA and in the international legal community - to apply adequate pressure to bring about an Appeal of this Judgement - given that many believe that the Judge in this case has made an error in Law. This case was important for the SA justice system.
The world is watching.

Allegations of corruption are concerning: Was Masipa then given 'the poison chalice" so to speak? She was a woman Judge who arose from black SA.
Was she then vulnerable to powerful influences 'beyond her control'? Was she a poor legal scholar as some have claimed? How did these alleged 'errors in Law' come about? An Appeal to a higher authority seems warranted, but will this higher authority be subjected to those same powerful influences? Will this woman Judge become a 'scapegoat'? Was her judgement influenced?

There could be a bigger picture here IMO.

Could corruption be reasonably possibly true in this case? Then it is up to the NPA to move forward with an Appeal.

My opinion only.

IDK, but it is also possible that it was just because she is human like all the rest of us. She is also at risk of being swayed by emotion and/or bias. Or she interpreted things in a different way. I guess we should thank the stars for our jury system because although it is far from being perfect, I do believe it's a lot better than 1 person seeing things through their own prism and making a decision.

 

[aa9511]

And he used to tell Reeva that chewing gum was bad for your image!!!!!!! I really need a large green bucket.

Which brings up the point, why wouldn't he just wipe his snot away? You know, with the facial tissue given to him. Ah right, he chose to leave it running down so it would make him look oh so pitiful and weak.

 

[turaj]

I don't blame Nel for being furious, I'm sure he is realising that all his hard work, his excellent reasoning, his commitment to justice for the victim was actually falling on deaf ears as he spoke. The fact that OP, the star witness and killer, proved himself a liar on the stand obviously tailoring his evidence as he went along was IMO the greatest pointer of all to guilt. Yet the courageous State witnesses who came forward in the interests if Justice, and had no reason at all to lie, their testimony was immediately discounted and discredited , written off as worthless by the Judge![/QUOTE]

bbm

ITA. Even the good doctor was so swayed by "media reports" that he somehow managed to brainwash himself into thinking he heard and saw things which he didn't really hear or see.

None of those witnesses wanted to be there...they were not some people with motives to lie or so compromised that they could not remember what they heard that night. The judge spoke about them as if they are not competent to recount the events. If I were them I would be really offended at her comments.