Trial Discussion Thread #53 - 14.12.9, Day 42 ~ final verdict~

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Please stay on topic and steer away from religion. Also, the topic is not about members so refrain from personalizing posts.
 
fox1lady said:
Judge Masipa has totally lost all her credibility in this case. Especially when Uncle Arnold states in her court that the family would like to show her just how grateful they are for allowing OP to get away with Reeva's murder. I wonder just HOW grateful she is expecting them to be???? Shameful!
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Most of us noticed the sign's of her affection towards him and hoped it was for appeal purposes, how wrong we were, it was because she was star struck.
 
james83 said:
Most of us noticed the sign's of her affection towards him and hoped it was for appeal purposes, how wrong we were, it was because she was star struck.
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I'm pretty sure it was because she was evidence struck...
 
JuneBug67 said:
Empathy is not like love, and it's not sympathy. It's the ability to recognize the emotions of others and feel as they might feel. And there is an astounding lack of it in most quarters.
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Comes from the Greek word empatheia "passion, state of emotion" one of the components of filial love.
 
Knowing the cycle of domestic violence, combined with how bizarre this whole thing has been, I'm not going to be surprised when I hear that OP and Samantha Taylor are dating again.
 
All I can say is with judgements like these I can see why there is so much crime in South Africa! Essentially anyone can shoot and kill anyone as long as they say that they thought they were in danger and their defence is putative self defence. Flippin' incredible, I'm glad we all got a chance to witness for ourselves the SA justice system!!! Glad I live in the UK now!
 
ColonelMustard said:
Knowing the cycle of domestic violence, combined with how bizarre this whole thing has been, I'm not going to be surprised when I hear that OP and Samantha Taylor are dating again.
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It's been so bizarre i wouldn't be surprised to hear that Op and Fresco are dating.
 
TLDR post.

Majorly dissapointed in Masipa, it is not even that she made perhaps incorrect interpretation of law that is vague or ambiguous, it is that even to a layperson, her rationales comes across as plain stupid.

1. Dismissing state eyewitnesses and experts, the rationale seems to be of course any doubt raised, means you automatically favor the accused, but this is in practice, untenable if it is approached so simply, any damn rich person can just buy another expert and make him say 'nothing is an exact science' and suddenly the accused ALWAYS must win.

2. He cried, therefore he must be innocent, how does this make any damn sense? this just makes the public shake their head because it makes it seem that a court of law is as simple and flawed as an adult finding
the kid did something wrong, the kid has a cry, suddenly the kid MUST be innocent, a joke.

3. What version? even if we accept that the accused gets the benefit of the doubt, what version are we supposed to support? they all do not work, if you contend so strongly that contradictions
makes peoples testimony unreliable (Fresco, eyewitnesses) then how do you give Pistorius version the benefit of the doubt when it contradicts?

Its so disappointing, for the public and SA law, this trial touched on so many social issue's, equality between men and women, fair justice for all and not just the young white rich men, gun deaths.
All the public will come away is that even with the best state prosecutor, even with the media backing Reeva, doesn't matter, Pistorius is a young white rich man, he gets let off easily.

I feel bad for judge greenland actually, i know he wanted so much for this trial to raise the profile and confidence of SA justice system to the public, and its all backfired.

Anyway it was an interesting ride, thanks to everyone around here, i don't know whether theres gonna be an appeal though honestly i think as has been shown,the rich have their version
of justice and the common people has theirs, so i don't have any hope for success there.
 
james83 said:
Most of us noticed the sign's of her affection towards him and hoped it was for appeal purposes, how wrong we were, it was because she was star struck.
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You are so right James. When I read an article on her background and time as a social worker, I was fearful she might believe his version. When I heard how she had bent the law to secure a 200+ year sentence in a previous judgement I was fearful she might do the same to reduce the charge for Oscar. I really think she will want to pass a non-custodial sentence unless there is such a public outcry the SA judiciary feel they must intervene and pressure her to imprison him. I think this will drag on and on. Oscar will appeal any custodial sentence and the SA NPA will almost certainly appeal a non-custodial sentence.
 
I wish they allowed a question and answer session where Nel and Roux could ask Masipa to clarify things in her verdict. Would seem fair since Masipa and her assessors had the chance to ask questions of Nel and Roux after their final arguments!
 
JuneBug67 said:
People who are genuinely capable of and interested in empathy don't pick and choose who gets it. If you have empathy, you can have it equally for everybody in the case.
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IMO there's a lot of pseudo-empathy around. With pseudo-empathy, you can pick and choose who deserves your empathy.

I've seen a lot of pseudo-empathy in the "caring professions" - and particularly the "profession" that prides itself in being nonjudgmental, inclusive, blah blah blah. I can't bring myself to say which that it.
 
Although I highly doubt Masipa will send OP to jail (after all, he cried and prayed, and couldn't have foreseen that shooting 4 times into a 1.5m x 1.5m toilet might kill the person behind it), I will still watch the week of sentencing, just to see if Nel calls OP back to the stand, or any other witnesses who might give Masipa reason to believe he should at least serve some jail time for killing an innocent human being.
 
Paul Connelly said:
Comes from the Greek word empatheia "passion, state of emotion" one of the components of filial love.
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And the word butterfly may come from the middle Dutch word meaning, literally, 'butter-shi*ter'. But butterfly excrement doesn't really capture much about the essence of butterflies...
 
ApplesInMyBra said:
I wish they allowed a question and answer session where Nel and Roux could ask Masipa to clarify things in her verdict. Would seem fair since Masipa and her assessors had the chance to ask questions of Nel and Roux after their final arguments!
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She hardly availed herself of the opportunity though did she? Possibly because she'd already decided long before either counsel put pen to paper? I'm sure Nel would have a few questions if she were to afford him the same opportunity!
 
Paul -

Respectfully snipped by me.

Paul Connelly said:
What do you expect from an ex-social worker? That's how she comes across to me. Has a veneer of stern authority but underneath is a bleeding heart, trained to understand and empathise and rehabilitate unconscionable behaviour. It's a spiritual blindness and means she is so focused on empathising with the perpetrator she lacks compassion for the victim.

I couldn't agree more.

I generally agree with the mod's policy about leaving religion out of the discussion. However, your faith is your profession, your life and your experience. IMO you bring relevant and valuable expertise to the forum, as do experts from a wide range of other professions.
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JuneBug67 said:
And the word butterfly may come from the middle Dutch word meaning, literally, 'butter-shi*ter'. But butterfly excrement doesn't really capture much about the essence of butterflies...
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It could if you were to suspend all knowledge, wisdom and belief like Judge Masipa is apt to do. However, it's not. Thinly disguised Ad Hominem attacks do you, nor the wider forum any good at all. I understand your frustration but it does not have to become personal.
 
Paul Connelly said:
It could if you were to suspend all knowledge, wisdom and belief like Judge Masipa is apt to do. However, it's not. Thinly disguised Ad Hominem attacks do you, nor the wider forum any good at all. I understand your frustration but it does not have to become personal.
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It's not remotely personal. We are discussing the concept of empathy. Quoting the root of the word did little to advance that discussion in my opinion. That was my only point.
 
A lucas said:
Still reeling that Masipa didn't even visit OP's house to get a sense of scale to support her theory and judgement. Clearly she didn't need to because she'd already made up her mind he was innocent. Why waste time eh?
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BBM... Well, let's admit, neither did we and it certainly didn't stop us from having theories and making a judgment. :)

On the serious side, I don't see any reason why M'Lady would have needed a house tour... she probably saw more photos of the house than we did.
 
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