Trial Discussion Thread #53 - 14.12.9, Day 42 ~ final verdict~

[cottonweaver]

Thanks cottonweaver, what an excellent article. It appears that Masipa has made a few *advertiser censored* in her interpretation of certain points of law. She has got her knickers in a twist in her explanations which do not appear to fit the criteria needed for such decisions. So hopefully the astute Mr Nel with step up to the plate and vigorously untangle said knickers? So to speak !

Well he's certainly a gentleman, so maybe he will assist! ( I'd liken him to the Henry Fonda of "12 Angry Men" film from the 1950's)

 

[turaj]

<snipped for brevity>

I recognize that your feelings are hurt because you just couldn't accept anyone else's point of view that was different than yours but I think you've missed it again. He has Generalized Anxiety Disorder post incident. This clearly came out in the psych reports , and this will be one of the mitigating factors that Roux will try and use to get a non-custodial sentence.

There are lots of people in the prison system with GAD, but again, we're talking about a celebrity double amputee whose safety cannot be guaranteed in the prison system.

Please show me another world famous double amputee GAD inmate in the prison system.

There is backlash and pressure on Masipa to give a custodial sentence and Nel eluded to this in his argument against bail but we'll see if Masipa folds.

Yes I believe the conclusion was he did not have it at the time of the murder to any significant degree but does have it now for sure...and that is understandable...I mean he has to know most people want to see him put away and in the gun culture in which he lives frankly someone could just go after him. Yes Roux will really use this and I think this judge will buy right into it and will be a significant mitigating factor...I imagine the psy. will get on the stand and expound on this. Yes judge has pressure but I think "other pressure" is more important to her and I don't think she will cave. Hope as usual on this case I am wrong as I want prison time.

 

[Susza]

Good idea to make one's feelings re this known. For what it is worth I sent the below to the Executive Assistant of the IPC Governing Board. The website where I found his/her email is also pasted in below. Hope it is a Ms as I jumped to a conclusion in my salutation!

Dear Ms Coudenys,

If the Board/spokespeople of the IPS wish to positively promote their organisation and sports men and women then they have made an incredibly serious and shortsighted error in judgement by announcing so swiftly that they would welcome Oscar Pistorius back before he has even been sentenced for the serious crime of culpable homicide, a verdict which in itself has left many angry and upset at its perceived leniency given the circumstances of the case.

If however you feel the Paralymic's image and respectability will be enhanced by the sound of booing and looks of disgust on the faces of spectators then your powers that be are well on the way to doing an outstanding promotional job.

Yours,

http://www.paralympic.org/the-ipc/governing-board

Thank you, Lith! I've sent it, too. Just changed IPS into IPC. Checked "Ms", it seems to be the correct salutation.

 

[vansleuths]

Hi Vans, can appreciate why you are cynical - me too.

But.......Tiger Woods isn't a homicidal non-maniac (c. Weskoppies) - drugs and hyper promiscuity, infidelity. A sleazeball for sure but
not convinced you can compare public response to Tiger's transgressions to OP.
OJ for sure.

With work and family life, I finally had a chance to watch the two days of verdict and I am upset by the result as well. I think if it was anyone else but OP in this scenario, it would be murder, but celebrity justice has won the day again. We see this over and over.

It's a good point that Tiger didn't kill anyone whereas OJ did. I do believe in Karma and it did come back to bite OJ in the end and perhaps, OP will experience it in his own way as well at some point in his life.

I know others have said that there is a chance that OP could kill again in the future and that possibility does exist, but if there is a silver lining, and it is small, I believe the charge of CH with a weapon prevents OP from ever being a licensed gun owner again. This at least will make his nights a little more stressful as he does seem like to go into "combat mode".

 

[vansleuths]

Thank you, Lith! I've sent it, too. Just changed IPS into IPC. Checked "Ms", it seems to be the correct salutation.

Thank you, I've sent my comments as well.

 

[soozieqtips]

There are lots of people in the prison system with GAD, but again, we're talking about a celebrity double amputee whose safety cannot be guaranteed in the prison system.

~snipped~

So any celebrity who is disabled in some way should be able to avoid prison? Who cares if his safety can't be guaranteed. Reeva's safety wasn't guaranteed and she's dead now, because of OP. Why should he get special treatment with a get-out-of-jail-free card? If he wanted to stay out of prison, he should have checked where Reeva was before shooting her dead (would have only taken a second.) He had choices, and he chose to kill her. Fortunately for him, his actions don't have consequences, but the majority of us would end up in prison for taking another life so recklessly, and rightly so.

 

[lithgow1]

Thank you, Lith! I've sent it, too. Just changed IPS into IPC. Checked "Ms", it seems to be the correct salutation.

Thanks! Wish you'd fixed my typo too but the gist is still there I hope

Beyond the morality of it all I can't fathom why they wouldn't have stuck to a 'no comment' until this whole case was finalised. And I do believe there would be a huge backlash were he invited to compete if he gets a non-custodial sentence.

 

[vansleuths]

~snipped~

So any celebrity who is disabled in some way should be able to avoid prison? Who cares if his safety can't be guaranteed. Reeva's safety wasn't guaranteed and she's dead now, because of OP. Why should he get special treatment with a get-out-of-jail-free card? If he wanted to stay out of prison, he should have checked where Reeva was before shooting her dead (would have only taken a second.) He had choices, and he chose to kill her. Fortunately for him, his actions don't have consequences, but the majority of us would end up in prison for taking another life so recklessly, and rightly so.

BIB

I believe that even the worst prisoners in the world deserve to be treated humanely or it puts society at their level.

But, I feel that while many don't care if OP's safety can't be guaranteed in a South African prison, that's besides the point. I can tell you who does care about OP's safety.

This trial is now much more then just a murder trial. This will become politicized. Who does care if OP's safety can't be guaranteed in a South African prison is the South African government. The last thing they want is OP to die in prison His name is now known around the world and if their prison systems are viewed negatively with OP dying, the government will feel the political pressure from the United Nations for the ill treatment of inmates and this in turn could turn could result in lost investments from other countries.

South Africa is a country that relies heavily on foreign aid and cannot allow this loss of revenue. South African prison reforms would of course be a good thing, but this costs money that SA does not have. It's sad but true.

We've already heard OP say that he has government officials in their back pocket.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Ah .. something has just occurred to me < lightbulb moment > .. perhaps Judge Masipa is just playing with OP, and she is stringing this all out, and deliberately made errors, in order to make OP think that he has gotten away with it, only to have intentionally paved the way for the PT to appeal, and then for the PT to win it, and get him slammed up .. perhaps she is trying to make the eventual verdict/sentence as long drawn out and as painful as possible for him!

.. yeah .. if only ..

lol, we've been making excuses for J Masipa all the way along, might as well keep doing it.

 

[james83]

Ah .. something has just occurred to me < lightbulb moment > .. perhaps Judge Masipa is just playing with OP, and she is stringing this all out, and deliberately made errors, in order to make OP think that he has gotten away with it, only to have intentionally paved the way for the PT to appeal, and then for the PT to win it, and get him slammed up .. perhaps she is trying to make the eventual verdict/sentence as long drawn out and as painful as possible for him!

.. yeah .. if only ..

If only indeed.
Sadly it's more likely that right now Masipa is sitting in the bath wearing one of those old fashioned hat's while Oscar scrubs her back.

 

[cottonweaver]

Tension reducer?

Take a look at another twittering that Calamity Carl* is espousing:

"How funny the human condition. It seems what we all desire is judgment for others and mercy for ourselves."

In response to this all his irony-free mates and supporters have added their predictable nonsense "ja , too many judgmental people in the world" , "no-one's perfect" etc etc ad nauseum.

He has re-tweeted this pointless saying - originally by one of his best mates (Phil, who has been pushing him into court in his wheelchair. )


This is Carl whose twitter slogan is "BORN WITH BEAST MODE TURNED ON " ( to be said in Hollywood trailer voice)

https://twitter.com/carlpistorius/status/510521663004614656

 

[james83]

 

[cottonweaver]

FUNNY! much better tension reducer!

 

[turaj]

I am in no way up to the details most of you know but I do believe that was the conclusion...in fact a high percentage of people are walking around with GAD...it is called generalized for a reason and frankly is never an excuse to murder. I say it will be used in the mitigation and I for one think it will be effective.

 

[james83]

I can see it already "Mr Dewani couldn't possibly have foreseen that his wife would be murdered when he paid the bad man to murder his wife".

 

[Interested Bystander]

I am not sure if this has been posted already.

http://www.worldnewspaperonline.com/judge-masipa-got-it-wrong/

It gets worse: Pistorius’ counterclaim is that he intentionally shot during a doorway to neutralize a viewed threat. He only didn’t consider his intentional sharpened was unlawful. But by a standards of dolus eventualis, scrupulously applied, he committed murder in South African law



This comment is cut and pasted and I think it may have been from a translation as I don't really understand the end of the second sentence. I hope you can make sense of it.

 

[cottonweaver]

James, can you tweet that to Carl Please?
Lois might like it too, she appreciates a bit of satire. ( Remember she retweeted from the fake Barry roux account recently.)

 

[IndianSummer]

BBM - I expect his family will ensure OP is not breathalysed for at least 12 hours after any such incident. OP has got away with murder, and he knows it. He must be feeling invincible after this. The danger is what will he do next? In the months before Reeva's killing, he'd been on a binge of escalating bad behaviour, which eventually culminated in Reeva's violent death. And then to know his piss poor performance on the stand was enough to convince the judge of his innocence, well, what can't he do now?

Sam Taylor's mum said that OP could lie as easily as he could breathe, and yet a highly-regarded judge known for tough sentences for crimes against women, totally bought his lies. If another woman comes to harm at OP's hands, will Masipa feel guilty? I don't think so.

Watching the interview with Sam Taylor's mom reminds me of my friends story. Her then b/f slammed her head into a picture frame of glass cutting her head. After which she reported, documented with photos, broke it off. The guy was a successful business man with good council and got away with nothing on his record.
Fast forward 2 years.
He beat his g/f which resulted in death and is now in prison in Orange County,CA.
Bizarre narcism part is how my friend found out 2 states away that He murdered his present g/f. His defense team hunted her down to ask her if she would be a character witness! Needless to say she contacted the prosecution and testified. He had no priors and whimpered, sobbed and was a total different person during the trial. He didn't get much time because he called 911(post beating her, driving away) said to please check on her then hung up. She lay on life support 2 days then died.That one call really shaved down his sentence.
The trial really was not about the victim. It was all about this poor guy,his childhood...how he made himself a success and was a productive part of society in spite of his hurdles...how he had never dealt with his anger....etc friggin etc.
The loss of his freedom was louder than the loss of that girls life.
It could of been my friend if the g/f order was different.
Even if Sam & her mother had reported OP ...who would of listened?
They have to know it could of been Sam.
I know my friend will never forget.



God bless prosecutors
What a hard job

 

[Sherbert]

Unless, of course, it was Nel who pointed out the error to the judge between day one and two of the sentencing, hence the amendment on day two and the abrupt ending on day one. Something happened on day one, it was all very strange.

Or Roux? Maybe, he realised she was leaving the door open for an appeal on a point of law?

 

[whiterum]

~snipped~

So any celebrity who is disabled in some way should be able to avoid prison? Who cares if his safety can't be guaranteed. Reeva's safety wasn't guaranteed and she's dead now, because of OP. Why should he get special treatment with a get-out-of-jail-free card? If he wanted to stay out of prison, he should have checked where Reeva was before shooting her dead (would have only taken a second.) He had choices, and he chose to kill her. Fortunately for him, his actions don't have consequences, but the majority of us would end up in prison for taking another life so recklessly, and rightly so.

Exactly, and if he thinks it's 'tally ho , off I go ' the blade runner is back in business , he is deluded. He could well face a gauntlet of boos and hisses and the odd egg or rotten tomato might find its target. Whose to say his safety will be guaranteed anywhere, he might actually be safer behind bars !