Trial Discussion Thread #55 - 14.14.10, Day 44 ~ sentencing~

[IndianSummer]

Known for her support of non-custodial sentences for first-time offenders who show remorse, Judge Masipa – who received death threats after her decision to acquit Pistorius of murder – sat under heavy armed guard at Pretoria High Court.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rm-killing-reeva-steenkamp.html#ixzz3G8FoQjzB

I have never heard that Masipa was known for her support of non-custodial sentences before.

Okay so not only is Oscar a victim ...now Masipa is a victim?
What about the very gone, very dead, very MURDERED VICTIM Reeva?

This entire is a run away CIRCUS ride IMO

 

[Interested Bystander]

There has always been armed guards in that court from day 1 .. I noticed them right back then because I felt sorry for the poor bloke (the one I could see) having to stand there all day listening to all the clap trap.

I read earlier in the trial that it is normal for a judge in a high profile case to have guards at home though I believe they were increased when the threats developed. I think she is also escorted to court by the police. Both understandable given the state of law and order in much of SA.

EDIT Apparently today there is extra security in the way of scanners for detecting firearms etc at the entrance to the court. I am guessing but it may be because there are a couple of unsavoury characters in court who could attract trouble, eg retribution for historical crimes they have committed. What a pity Nel has to entertain these people but they are witnesses to the nightclub disturbance. I can see Roux making a meal of them in much the same way Nel does of the DT witnesses.

 

[Estelle]

Twitter - Karyn Maughan:
Correctional services dept says its "noted with concern inaccurate serious allegations that sought to cast doubt" re SA prisons

https://twitter.com/karynmaughan/status/522020377275695104

Correctional services says they're happy to make officials available to testify re jail conditions

https://twitter.com/karynmaughan/status/522024077029277697

IMO the fight is on and there is still a chance. I think everyone (except Defence and Masipa) will be behind Nel now. It often works that way. When everyone fears that he will be given such a leneint sentence, they will be more passionate about what they want to tell the court.

It looks as if Nel might have quite a few witnesses.

1. I think there will be a focus on the night club incident while OP was out on bail using any or all of the guys involved to show that OP could become violent again if not imprisoned.

2. Correctional Services person to speak about how great the prisons are, how they will give him a single cell, he can wear his prosthesis, use the gym, rails in the bathrooms, train the other prisoners in athletics, organise races, he could be given a special diet, meds, and receive rehabilitation.

3. Gina Myers

4. Sam Taylor

5. The ex-Rugby player

6. Nel will read the impact statement written by June.

 

[patCee]

I'm sure if the Steenkamps took legal action in the civil court they would have won financial compensation, but it's likely they would have needed the funds to do so. From OP's position it effectively thwarted any desire on the parent's part to take that further action. Not sure how this will reflect on him in court, but it's clearly been considered by the DT.

If I recall in the OJ case in the US, the civil court also found him guilty of murder, despite the criminal court's verdict of NG. Could a similar thing happen in the SA courts?

The Steenkamps clearly feel uncomfortable taking the money and want to repay it. All this is going to make it so difficult for them to sit in court having to face everyone, what a mess.

 

[Estelle]

and shultz is a friend of batchelor's
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/i-will-break-your-legs-blade-runner-1.1427618#.VD1AidTF-ME

could all get a bit messy with all these fellas throwing accusations around...

Brett Kebble's self confessed killer handed all his firearms to police just three months after being issued with new gun licences, according to a weekend report.

Mikey Schultz and Nigel McGurk were issued with five and four gun licences respectively in 2011, despite confessing to the 2005 murder, the Saturday Star reported.

Police spokesperson Captain Dennis Adriao said Schultz voluntarily surrendered his weapons at the Sandton police station on Friday "pending the outcome of an investigation" in to how he was re-issued new gun licences.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Kebble-killer-surrenders-guns-20120317

 

[Hatfield]

I'm sure if the Steenkamps took legal action in the civil court they would have won financial compensation, but it's likely they would have needed the funds to do so. From OP's position it effectively thwarted any desire on the parent's part to take that further action. Not sure how this will reflect on him in court, but it's clearly been considered by the DT.

If I recall in the OJ case in the US, the civil court also found him guilty of murder, despite the criminal court's verdict of NG. Could a similar thing happen in the SA courts?

The Steenkamps clearly feel uncomfortable taking the money and want to repay it. All this is going to make it so difficult for them to sit in court having to face everyone, what a mess.

For the 1st bolded part, i would hope some attorneys would take a civil case pro-bono because they would get paid a percentage if they win the case.

For the last bolded part, I agree it is more difficult now, although they can bring up they were duped into believing OP that he made an honest mistake about shooting at intruder, which they now know wasnt true based on trial evidence of Reeva screaming. Even though court decision did not go their way.
They can also bring up financial hardship at the time warranted them accepting the money.

The bottom line is I agree it is more difficult now in civil court, but something I think they could still win the case for. I hope they do pursue civil court action. Its all they have left because the criminal case is obviously not going to give them justice.

Got to hit OP where it hurts the most. A huge financial civil case judgement.

 

[Estelle]

For the 1st bolded part, i would hope some attorneys would take a civil case pro-bono because they would get paid a percentage if they win the case.

For the last bolded part, I agree it is more difficult now, although they can bring up they were duped into believing OP that he made an honest mistake about shooting at intruder, which they now know wasnt true based on trial evidence of Reeva screaming. Even though court decision did not go their way.
They can also bring up financial hardship at the time warranted them accepting the money.

The bottom line is I agree it is more difficult now in civil court, but something I think they could still win the case for. I hope they do pursue civil court action. Its all they have left because the criminal case is obviously not going to give them justice.

Got to hit OP where it hurts the most. A huge financial civil case judgement.

The best time for the parents to do this would be after the Appeal if it is successful.

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

FFS, Listening to the witness, Anette Vergeer is like finger nails on a chalk board!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lux et Veritas]

"I have to say on one of the rare interviews that Judge Masipa gave, she indicated some time ago, this was long before she took on this case - she indicated how reluctant she was... to send young criminals in Soweto to jail, because she felt that was corrupting them further, not giving them any hope, and she was very much of the understanding, or the feeling, that they should be given a chance of reforming. So if that's an indication of how she thinks about this case, then I think we can see where it's going".
- Alex Crawford, Sky News

One cannot corrupt an already corrupt soul.

The corrupt do not want to reform.

And hope? LOL

The corrupt are the destroyers of hope.

Would Masipa and Henzen-du Toit be so “reluctant” to bring down the righteous hammer if Oscar had murdered THEIR sister, daughter, granddaughter, best friend? Their entire perspective would do a total 180, wouldn’t it?

Let’s face it - with very rare exceptions, the judiciary exists in their own alternate reality, safely insulated from Real Life. Violent crime happens to others, to those people. Crime doesn’t personally affect them - they can afford to be compassionate and magnanimous and even experimental with the law when they’ve got zero skin in the game.

They hand down ‘sage’ decrees, dressed up in fancy legalese that sound great on paper but have nothing whatsoever to do with justice.

Second chances and suspended sentences and “holistic” and “reform” and “rehabilitation” and bleeding-heart platitudes are easy when it’s someone else’s horrific nightmare.

Crime scene photos are sterile, they never do the actual brutality justice; testimony only goes so far in painting the whole picture. One must stand in the place of the victim, both figuratively and literally.

At the very least, Masipa and her assessors should have each taken the elevator down from their ivory tower to physically stand alone in that tiny, dark, locked toilet - then imagine a dear loved one in their place, terrified, mangled, bleeding, dead ... shot to death by Oscar Pistorius. Perhaps the shattered, bloody tiles, bashed metal and smashed doors would have whispered the truth in their ears.

INJUSTICE IS A TOTAL FAILURE OF IMAGINATION.

It seeks to separate you from me from all of us, to justify selfish bias, to twist and circumvent the law to satisfy one’s narrow ideals and agenda. It speaks of the “victim”, the “deceased” ... very rarely by her name - REEVA. She becomes little more than an abstract, caught in the judicial machinery. The cold, abstract rule of law must be tempered by making cases personal, viewing the deceased as a once warm, living, breathing, feeling human being with a real name, a real smile, real dreams, an existence as real as their own.

Entire families are traumatized, sometimes broken beyond repair ... they, too, are victims in their own right.

One must put oneself in the shoes of Reeva and her family. It could so easily have been MY loved one. One then instantly sees murderous violence in a stark new light - it becomes personal, immediate, a wrong that must be corrected. A murder is not just a criminal offense against the deceased - it is an offense against ALL. Yes, we should all take it personally. No judge ever became just or wise simply by reading and applying laws and statutes - anyone can do that. Real lives, real victims, real families should be the prism which the law must pass through to reach true justice.

Reeva Steenkamp should have been the prism through which Masipa walked.

Her misguided (if sincere) thirst for “remorse” and “rehabilitation” has corrupted her judgement in favor of the predator.

Sometimes Lady Justice must remove her blindfold to avoid falling into an abyss ... or becoming prey.

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

Wow, this is a massive slip up/attempt at deceit by her.

What is?

 

[soozieqtips]

Got to hit OP where it hurts the most. A huge financial civil case judgement.

~snipped~

BIB - Mr De Bruyn said he had done some "good deals," and the Steenkamps were in a much better financial position. They will not be pursuing a civil case against Pistorius, he said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s/11158043/Oscar-Pistorius-sentence-live.html

 

[zwiebel]

The Steenkamp's lawyer said in that video they were aware the issue of payments was coming up but it didn't come up in the the way 'we' thought it would. That's why he felt the need to make an announcement immediately.

Unfortunately, the Pistorius camp now get to have the last word, because they are making their statement about it tomorrow, and have already said his statement is incorrect. What a mess. The Steenkamps would have been far, far better off selling their story to a newspaper, than trusting Pistorius. I think their lawyer gave very bad counsel in approaching OP for payments, and letting them do a deal with him.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

[Oscar Pistorius'] ghostwriter, Italian journalist Gianni Merlo, now questions the Pistorius mythology that he helped to create. After the 26-year-old double-amputee Olympic hero was arrested for the shooting death of his girlfriend last month, Mr. Merlo wondered if the global media had built him into a dangerously worshiped celebrity. “Have we unwittingly cultivated a monster?” he wrote in an essay in an Italian newspaper after the shooting.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/the-unmaking-of-oscar-pistorius/article10585576/?page=all

 

[PrimeSuspect]

The Pistorius family have announced that they are unhappy with the characterisation of their offers of financial assistance to the Steenkamp family, and will be clarifying matters tomorrow

I have a feeling they're going to try and paint Reeva's parents in a bad light. There's not much they won't stoop to.

-------------------------
Vergeer said that she was aware that a sentence of house arrest would – wrongly, in her view – be perceived as too lenient, but that one should remember that the purpose of sentencing was “not to satisfy public opinion, but to serve public interest”

BIB - how about setting up a poll and seeing who exactly would be fine with that convicted killer being around their children? How is it serving public interest if the majority of people don't want him around?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2014/oct/14/oscar-pistorius-trial-sentencing-continues-live

I have evidence of this from the support page for OP on fb. Last week I thought I'd venture into their neck of woods. It was absolutely insane, they were disparaging JS in the most vilest way, like money is what it's all about. They despise her and what was written in English was bad enough, I would have hated to know what was written in Afrikaan. I can't cut &paste, but I can paraphrase, anyway I think you all get the gist. Now this is happening in court, I wouldn't be surprised they're connected.

But I did get to have my say, lol, even if it was only up for a few hours. One lady said JS should get over it, life happens! No joke, that is what she said and more actually, so I wrote;
Hey, Oscar, It's been 26 yrs since you lost your legs, get over it! Life happens! Then I said they're crazy!

 

[jay-jay]

What is?

I've forgotten now :lol:

Oh yes (just gone back to where it was in the thread) .. well, it was about what she said about OP paying the Steenkamps, but that all got a bit confusing at the time she said it, and now it's all been sorted out/clarified. Well, not sorted out in court, obviously .. it still seems to be ongoing. I mean on here, it's been clarified as to what's been going on with the payments situation.

Sorry, this doesn't make a huge amount of sense .. you'll need to read the rest of the thread re. the payments!

 

[jay-jay]

I have evidence of this from the support page for OP on fb. Last week I thought I'd venture into their neck of woods. It was absolutely insane, they were disparaging JK in the most vilest way, like money is what it's all about. They despise her and what was written in English was bad enough, I would have hated to know what was written in Afrikaan. I can't cut &paste, but I can paraphrase, anyway I think you all get the gist. Now this is happening in court, I wouldn't be surprised they're connected.

But I did get to have my say, lol, even if it was only up for a few hours. One lady said JK should get over it, life happens! No joke, that is what she said and more actually, so I wrote;
Hey, Oscar, It's been 26 yrs since you lost your legs, get over it! Life happens! Then I said they're crazy!

Who is JK?

 

[Cherwell]

6. Nel will read the impact statement written by June.

I hope he doesn't. Frankly I haven't been impressed by his articulacy or oratorical skills. He'd likely be faffing about, losing his place all the time.
No, it needs to be someone who can deliver it clearly and with feeling.

 

[whiterum]

P

The Pistorius family have announced that they are unhappy with the characterisation of their offers of financial assistance to the Steenkamp family, and will be clarifying matters tomorrow

I have a feeling they're going to try and paint Reeva's parents in a bad light. There's not much they won't stoop to.

-------------------------
Vergeer said that she was aware that a sentence of house arrest would – wrongly, in her view – be perceived as too lenient, but that one should remember that the purpose of sentencing was “not to satisfy public opinion, but to serve public interest”

BIB - how about setting up a poll and seeing who exactly would be fine with that convicted killer being around their children? How is it serving public interest if the majority of people don't want him around?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2014/oct/14/oscar-pistorius-trial-sentencing-continues-live

Exactly , the Pistorius family should go sling their hook, anyone with half a brain will know what their so- called pittance of financial assistance to the grieving and the vulnerable Steenkamps was all about. They do nothing except in their own interest so they can stuff their clarification as IMO they are indeed the lowest of the low.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Who is JK?

Sorry, Typo, JS

 

[Ncl1968]

Jfk??? Now thats a typo ��