Trial Discussion Thread #56 - 14.15.10, Day 45 ~ sentencing~

[geevee]

Yeah, but she's not going to sentence him on Friday, is she? She's going to go away and think about it for a few more weeks. Allegedly.

Yes, this was a done deal from the beginning, which is why the defense put so many unqulaified or ill-prepared witnesses on the stand, it didn't matter what they said, or how silly they sounded saying it. The defense knew that the judge wouldn't object, the same as she didn't bother when the prosecution was handed reports the day of witness testimony, her verdict and the sentence were decided long ago, this is all just filler to make it look good for the public - whose sentiment they seriously misjudged, unsurprisingly.

 

[soozieqtips]

A very good summary of today's court. Excerpt:

"After 45 days and 40 witnesses, just when it seemed there were no surprises left, the trial of Oscar Pistorius was stunned into silence on Wednesday by the one voice it had not yet heard: Reeva Steenkamp’s heartbroken family.

Martin’s voice cracked and she sobbed on the witness stand, forcing a brief adjournment. Steenkamp’s mother June, a stoical figure for months, and father Barry succumbed to tears. It was a charged moment and one of the most visceral in a trial that began seven months ago and absorbed millions around the world".

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-family-heartbreak-oscar-pistorius-sentencing

 

[jilly]

Can Nel complain to a higher authority if Masipa keeps chivvying him along like she was doing today?

I don't see how her attitude is serving the interests of justice.

I don't think so. Once you're appointed to the bench you can pretty much do what you want. Your only fear of reprimand is the Court of Appeal and every Judge dreads a reversal.

I thought Estelle's earlier post was interesting:

http://www.ozy.com/#!/pov/dershowitz-pistorius-will-get-off-easy/36523.article

Dershowitz figures he should have got an acquittal and said Masipa split the difference. She found him guilty of culpable homicide and will give him a weak sentence so that it will not be appealed.

 

[lithgow1]

I don't think so. Once you're appointed to the bench you can pretty much do what you want. Your only fear of reprimand is the Court of Appeal and every Judge dreads a reversal.

I thought Estelle's earlier post was interesting:

http://www.ozy.com/#!/pov/dershowitz-pistorius-will-get-off-easy/36523.article

Dershowitz figures he should have got an acquittal and said Masipa split the difference. She found him guilty of culpable homicide and will give him a weak sentence so that it will not be appealed.

I just started reading that article but gave up at this point below as it seems I know more than Dershowitz does about the law regarding murder in South Africa. I think.

Either [Pistorius] knew [Steenkamp] was behind there, in which case it’s murder, or he didn’t know she was behind there, in which case it’s innocent self-defense. But there’s no possibility of an intermediate verdict in this case. This was clearly a compromise verdict that should not be allowed to stand. My prediction is that the appellate court will reverse the conviction.

 

[jilly]

she asked the Corrections Officer (whatisname) yesterday how the 16 hrs community service in effect, would be spread out , and he said 8 hrs twice a MONTH .......
(and he'll do some cleaning in a museum or something ... Or perhaps he'll do some gardening at Masipa's house, or lend her Frank) !

......so this is probably what she will give the lying arrogant tw*t killer

Masipa listened to the Defence witnesses and so Roux's put infront of her the minimum OP could get on a CH Charge, and his witnesses failed to even read the finer detail ie degree of negligence of Oscar's crime, his degree of culpability which determines the sentencing .........the witnesses seemed to have just been told about Tasha's incident for the recommendations they gave, gobsmacking..............The idea that Masipa is under some pressure from a higher power, perhaps political is starting to reek. Sweep it all away !! and fast !

What a laughing stock SA Justice System is.

8 hrs twice a month???? OMG! Strike that witness! Far too severe for Oscar. Poor man. His legs won't hold out for that severe punishment! :crazy: Remember, he's already been "punished once"

"Politcal pressure" I DO agree with.

 

[toevlugsoord]

This point may have been made but I was thinking about it -- it's irritating that Nel is being told to hurry up, but he's actually had a LOT of cross examination time. So while he will be presenting his witnesses, Roux is the one who will have to cut his CE time short...leaving Nel with probably the most amount of time total during this sentencing phase.
Yay!

 

[toevlugsoord]

Samantha Taylor also spoke that way.

A lot of my female SA relatives also speak that way.
Kind of interesting...

 

[soozieqtips]

I just started reading that article but gave up at this point below as it seems I know more than Dershowitz does about the law regarding murder in South Africa. I think.

Either [Pistorius] knew [Steenkamp] was behind there, in which case it’s murder, or he didn’t know she was behind there, in which case it’s innocent self-defense. But there’s no possibility of an intermediate verdict in this case. This was clearly a compromise verdict that should not be allowed to stand. My prediction is that the appellate court will reverse the conviction.

BIB - I thought it couldn't be any kind of defence, since he was in no danger, no one was advancing towards him, and his 'attacker' was safely locked in the toilet.

 

[soozieqtips]

This point may have been made but I was thinking about it -- it's irritating that Nel is being told to hurry up, but he's actually had a LOT of cross examination time. So while he will be presenting his witnesses, Roux is the one who will have to cut his CE time short...leaving Nel with probably the most amount of time total during this sentencing phase.
Yay!

Or will Roux drag out the cross examination so that Nel feels even more pressured, and Milady tells him off again??

 

[jilly]

I just started reading that article but gave up at this point below as it seems I know more than Dershowitz does about the law regarding murder in South Africa. I think.

Either [Pistorius] knew [Steenkamp] was behind there, in which case it’s murder, or he didn’t know she was behind there, in which case it’s innocent self-defense. But there’s no possibility of an intermediate verdict in this case. This was clearly a compromise verdict that should not be allowed to stand. My prediction is that the appellate court will reverse the conviction.

You do see the writing on the wall as to where Masipa is going, right?

So, as you and Dershowitz agree - either he knew she was behind the door or he didn't. That's what it appears to boil down to.
Dershowitz said she didn't know and if she didn't then she has to acquit. That tells me the Nel did not prove that Oscar knew it was her behind that door.

So. Are you saying there was enough evidence presented by the prosecution that Oscar knew?

I think there was but, like I've said before, Masipa doesn't make inferences.

 

[emirates1957]

she asked the Corrections Officer (whatisname) yesterday how the 16 hrs community service in effect, would be spread out , and he said 8 hrs twice a MONTH .......
(and he'll do some cleaning in a museum or something ... Or perhaps he'll do some gardening at Masipa's house, or lend her Frank) !

......so this is probably what she will give the lying arrogant tw*t killer

Masipa listened to the Defence witnesses and so Roux's put infront of her the minimum OP could get on a CH Charge, and his witnesses failed to even read the finer detail ie degree of negligence of Oscar's crime, his degree of culpability which determines the sentencing .........the witnesses seemed to have just been told about Tasha's incident for the recommendations they gave, gobsmacking..............The idea that Masipa is under some pressure from a higher power, perhaps political is starting to reek. Sweep it all away !! and fast !

What a laughing stock SA Justice System is.

I remember very early on a WS member hmmm I think it was Shane from memory who said "this trial runs much deeper". I guess he has been proven right unfortunately.

 

[Aika]

I’ve been listening to Radio 702 (Aubrey Masango - I love that man). Ordinary people in SA involve themselves a lot in the Oscar trial and the questions of injustice/corruption.

Kim Martin has left a great impression. I’d say about 80% of the listeners are appalled by how the trial developed and Oscar’s conduct. The money from OP to June and Barry did cause a bit of controversy, but most people did sympathize.

I have my deepest respect for the people of SA. They’re not fooled that easily

 

[vanatos]

I’ve been listening to Radio 702 (Aubrey Masango - I love that man). Ordinary people in SA involve themselves a lot in the Oscar trial and the questions of injustice/corruption.

Kim Martin has left a great impression. I’d say about 80% of the listeners are appalled by how the trial developed and Oscar’s conduct. The money from OP to June and Barry did cause a bit of controversy, but most people did sympathize.

I have my deepest respect for the people of SA. They’re not fooled that easily

Sorry for my annoying question, is there a replay link of this?

The pistorius radio wasn't working at all for me yesterday, i missed out on the development of peoples opinion outside the case...

 

[Cherwell]

You do see the writing on the wall as to where Masipa is going, right?

So, as you and Dershowitz agree - either he knew she was behind the door or he didn't. That's what it appears to boil down to.
Dershowitz said she didn't know and if she didn't then she has to acquit. That tells me the Nel did not prove that Oscar knew it was her behind that door.

So. Are you saying there was enough evidence presented by the prosecution that Oscar knew?

I think there was but, like I've said before, Masipa doesn't make inferences.

He didn't have to know it was Reeva. He could (imo should) still have been found guilty of murdering *the person* in the toilet. Whoever it was.

 

[Duchy]

She's made it clear in my mind that she thinks the testimonies of Reeva's family and friends are a waste of court time. I don't know when and where she lost her compassion or if she had any to start with, but it's sad to see a judge give all her sympathy to the accused, yet has nothing for Reeva's family.

I went off fantasising after reading this post.....she's thinking 'I have to get this wrapped up on Friday.....if only all these people knew I am going to send him down for 15 years anyway!'

 

[Aika]

Sorry for my annoying question, is there a replay link of this?

The pistorius radio wasn't working at all for me yesterday, i missed out on the development of peoples opinion outside the case...

That's not an annoying question

I will try and find out for you. I’m listening on a Radio app on my iPod (there’s another show now). It’s a normal radio station - not only on Oscar, but they cover it a lot. But they also talk about other stuff.

Try the website - I think they have live streaming:

http://www.702.co.za

 

[Aika]

OK - at the top of the page there is "Listen to 702 Live". It’s about prisons, bathrooms and disabled people right now. They're saying that Annette Whatshername prison expert misled the court about the conditions.

http://702.co.za

 

[jacalyn]

That's one of the clinchers for me - a photo that showed he lied blatantly, a lie that was highlighted by the fact he got very upset when being pressed about that photo.

Oscar (the hot head) gunned Reeva down in the smallest enclosed (coffin like) AREA in his house. This woman's last breath was over/near a F'n toilet. So your surprised OJ...opps Oscar lied? OJ...opps Oscar also had a person living on his property, OJ vs Oscar...both walked. Difference, OJ denied it, Oscar admitted it AND it still makes no difference.

Dear Oscar, I would like to pay for a one-way ticket for YOU to come to VEGAS. Inasmuch as, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. For confirmation on this, just ask OJ.

 

[jilly]

She's made it clear in my mind that she thinks the testimonies of Reeva's family and friends are a waste of court time. I don't know when and where she lost her compassion or if she had any to start with, but it's sad to see a judge give all her sympathy to the accused, yet has nothing for Reeva's family.

I'm surprised they even have Victim Impact Statements. Obviously, they're not discretionary!

 

[LemonMousse]

You do see the writing on the wall as to where Masipa is going, right?

So, as you and Dershowitz agree - either he knew she was behind the door or he didn't. That's what it appears to boil down to.
Dershowitz said she didn't know and if she didn't then she has to acquit. That tells me the Nel did not prove that Oscar knew it was her behind that door.

So. Are you saying there was enough evidence presented by the prosecution that Oscar knew?

I think there was but, like I've said before, Masipa doesn't make inferences.

But that's the point that Dershowitz missed. Pistorius did not have to know that Reeva was behind the door in order to still be convicted of murder.

He knew that someone was behind the door - and he shot them four times. That is still murder...eventualis rather than directus.