Trial Discussion Thread #56 - 14.15.10, Day 45 ~ sentencing~

[katydid23]

Nel says if he'd been found guilty of dolus eventualis, the facilities would have been the same.

He's trying to make her agree that she doesn't want him to go to prison under any circumstances.

Nel says it's 11.15.

Masipa: What does that mean?

She doesn't know this either after 6 months. She has serious issues doesn't she. TEA BREAK

She seems like she is drugged or something. How could she not know what 11:15 means? She used to interrupt the trial by saying it was break time.

 

[lithgow1]

Is anyone listening to the conversation going on on you-tube. About shoes and 'cheap *advertiser censored*'? Don't think they know they are being broadcast.

 

[katydid23]

Is Jerry black and poor?

I think she means Jerry, of Tom and Jerry, thw two cartoon mice that were always stealing cheese? :cat:

 

[zwiebel]

Well, to me it looks like witness could not:

Back up her stats and 'facts' about prisons in her report
Could not explain how OP showed her his remorse
Could not explain how OP showed her he accepted responsibility
Would not explain the logic behind her report, that definitely suggests prison not suitable for anyone with a severe disability. When Nel asked does that mean no-one with that should ever go to prison, no matter what they do, she retreated to 'I cannot speculate.Not an expert'.

 

[lithgow1]

I've just jumped to this page so apologies if this is posted on pps. 5-7 but the 'cheese stealer' had 13 prior housebreaking convictions.

 

[G.bng]

IMO that is a really bad comparison to say her recommendation would have been the same for murder on the basis of the physical conditions. Sentence recommendations also must account for the severity of the crime and murder is clearly much more serious than CH since it includes intention, i.e. malice aforethought or dolus, and the judge will know that. And her judgement was that he made a mistake or however you want to call it, not that he purposefully wanted to commit a crime.

 

[sorrell skye]

Is this the same therapist that used to rub OP's back during the trial breaks? :facepalm:

That was Dr. Lore Hartzenberg - she was the psychologist who testified Monday.

 

[patCee]

I don't understand why she didn't address all of those situations within the context of shooting Reeva in terms of his dangerous personality. It's one of the main reasons she has no credibility in my view. The only issue in her report she expanded on was how difficult it would be for OP in prison and that he is unlikely to re-offend, plus incorrectly stating it's his first offence. No balance in her report to indicate she has thought carefully about the main offence.

 

[Aika]

Dadic on Twitter:
Vergeer is the only person in SA who doesn't know what Dolus directus is

https://twitter.com/DavidDadic/status/522311343027007489

 

[zwiebel]

I hope everyone has taken note therof, of AV's evidence today.

 

[newone]

somehow I feel this woman won't be asked to generate any reports for court use in future!!!

 

[Peliman]

I'm glad they took a break and after listening to her I think I need therapy. I think she has an emotional attachment to OP.

Morning everyone...

 

[soozieqtips]

Sky News just said that there should be some "fascinating" witnesses for the prosecution, and hinted that some of them are very close to OP. Of course, they didn't name them.

ETA: Also, I think that witnesses who have gone to such great lengths to provide inaccurate (and incomplete) evidence for the court, should have their evidence binned. Bias has no place when deciding whether to keep the public safe, or whether to cater to the needs of a convicted killer.

 

[newone]

my feed must have a lag.......mid sentence cut out when I refreshed said out for break

 

[Estelle]

somehow I feel this woman won't be asked to generate any reports for court use in future!!!

That is what I have been thinking. Surely her reputation has been ruined and she will suffer public humiliation as a result. Imagine what the media are going to say!

 

[SurfDiva]

Is anyone listening to the conversation going on on you-tube. About shoes and 'cheap *advertiser censored*'? Don't think they know they are being broadcast.

Yes, am watching from the UK on the Telegraph feed. Don't know who it it, but asked co-worker why she didn't wear 'cheap *advertiser censored*' shoes, obviously commenting on a by-stander's choice of foot wear. Big *advertiser censored* up, eh? Oh! he's on now. Think his name is David? Not David Smith from Guardian.

 

[Aika]

So Vergeer was a PAID witness in the "Sunday Rapist" trial - he was sentenced to five live terms in prison.

 

[mister happy]

I think Nel is going on far too long with this. They're going over the same things, over and over, round and round in circles .. it all just sounds very messy now. He should've been a lot clearer, and kept it a lot tighter. I'm really quite cross with him.

I have to agree. Nel is great at digging into a witness, but sometimes he doesn't know when to let go. Thus, his cross examination ends up becoming an exercise in badgering, and not constructive to his case.

 

[lithgow1]

IMO that is a really bad comparison to say her recommendation would have been the same for murder on the basis of the physical conditions. Sentence recommendations also must account for the severity of the crime and murder is clearly much more serious than CH since it includes intention, i.e. malice aforethought or dolus, and the judge will know that. And her judgement was that he made a mistake or however you want to call it, not that he purposefully wanted to commit a crime.

I think he is just making the point that conditions in prison for the disabled prisoner do not change so going by her logic, no-one with a disability should ever be imprisoned. She is using his disability as ONE of the reasons for not sending him to prison so when taken to its logical conclusion ... Plus all her disability-based reasons for not imprisoning him were swept away by Nel. For all the good that will do.

 

[Estelle]

Ha ha .. he's caught her out again .. she's just used a pro-forma and tweaked it a bit .. LOL!

That's what I was thinking yesterday.