Trial Discussion Thread #58 - 14.17.10, Day 47 ~ sentencing~

[christee]

This feed has worked well for me... http://www.channel4.com/news/pistorius-trial-murder-watch-live-video

 

[kaos]

I think Nel did well with the payment issue, pointing out how it was always referenced as an 'offer' by all the Pistorius family statements; so not really as a quiet gift or act of remorse. And the timing of their release of the info, after the Steenkamps had been asked to keep it quiet.

I seriously hope Judge Masipa not only takes this into account when sentencing but also admonishes OP's legal team for attempting to influence sentencing. It was perfectly obvious to anybody this blood money was dropped into the hearing at the last minute when the DT were dreading what witnesses the PT were going to say.

 

[newone]

Whoop speculating sentence might be announced this afternoon?

how hard could it be!

 

[lithgow1]

I really hope Nel points out that the cases Roux cited involved one shot, not four.

 

[kaos]

Sadly, copyright laws where I live won't allow me to view any of them.

Can't you download Hola? That allowed me to view the Australian show that had the re-enactment video. It allows your computer to think it's in any country in the world so usually unviewable stuff can be accessed.

 

[K.T]

Nel has been talking intensely and emphatically about Kim Martin’s testimony. He’s trying to stress to the court the tragedy of a lose of a human being, instead of Pistorius claimed personal 'loss'.

Nel's trying to remind the court it's all been about Pistorius when the real victim is Steenkamp - espcially the devastating effects her killing had on her loved ones.

“We here have a family who made up in love what they lacked in financial means. It’s a very close family. A daughter that adored family life. Let’s not deal with the word culpable homicide at the distance…without getting hold of the nitty of gritty of it.”

Hope he goes into the details of 'gross' negligence and recaps GRAPHICALLY

• the details of the shots,
• the action
• the intention shooting
• the intention of arming and moving aggressively against merely an unknown and incorrect 'sound'
• Ammunition type - grievous fatal injury
• Victim suffering from the reckless amount of shots withing the close toilet grouping

 

[04009margaret]

Interesting, Barry Roux has also lost a child pre Annika Larsen on ENCA tv

 

[zoran]

I can feel m'ladys negative energy towards Nel all the way from here in my lounge room. Straight away she straightened up , leaned back and crossed her arms in classic defensive stance.

Oscar is already a free man

 

[LemonMousse]

In the UK, I think that you can be charged with murder, plead not guilty to that, but guilty instead to manslaughter (even though you haven't been charged with that).

So, does anyone know....could OP, for example, have plead not guilty to murder but guilty to CH instead?

If he could have done, then that proves his "acceptance of responsibility" is a pack of lies.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Masipa looked bored by Nel and fascinated by Roux.

I have a really bad feeling about this.

She should have taken some acting lessons! A Judge hasn't to show her/his sympathy like that, IMO.

 

[lithgow1]

Rohit Kachroo @RohitKachrooITV
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Oscar Pistorius standing in the dock during this adjournment silently praying with his siblings

 

[ColonelMustard]

Couldn't get in here earlier -- maybe too much action on the server!!

Anyway...

ROUX:

1. hit below the belt/cheap shot bringing up "suicide," as in "if you toss him in prison and he kills himself - which will be likely - his blood is going to be on your hands.

NEL:

1.He said something like, "Society; it's what we want." Actually, theoretically-speaking, Vermeer had a valid point when she said that sentencing can't be about what society wants but about what's in society's best interest.

2. HOWEVER, Nel again mentioned that if society doesn't get what it thinks is justice they'll take the law into their own hands. (Masipa, did you see those 5 HUGE guys sitting in the back row two days ago? That's what I'm talking about.) Maybe Nel was matching Roux but flipped. If you don't put him away he may be killed on the outside and his blood is going to be on your hands.

3. What was his comment about when he said, "'Dolus Eventualis' (long pause as the phrase hangs in the air) ... lawyers will be debating that for days..." a. An appeal is coming? b. We're debating whether we will appeal? c. If we don't like the sentence we'll appeal? d. Other?

4. OP, if home incarceration would be "staying in a luxurious house," at which phrase Lois then shakes her head "No, No" ( WTF? Yes, yes!)

5. He's making great points but if I filter them through JM's view that it was an ACCIDENT, he didn't MEAN to do it, he didn't know she was there. ( Incorrect, yes, but thats what she seem to think.) then she won't agree with Nel at all.


I'd appreciate any comments/thoughts on any/all of the above.

THANKS!

 

[04009margaret]

Whoop speculating sentence might be announced this afternoon?

We can only hope

 

[vanatos]

why doesn't whoop radio work at all...

 

[Sherbert]

I have a feeling that Milady will be relying on Kim Martin's concession to Roux yesterday that she wouldn't want OP to be incarcerated. IMO, Nel needs to say something to counteract it along the lines of 'No decent person wants another human being to be treated inhumanely, no matter what he has done...'

Also, I hope he makes the point that OP gave the 'intruder' no chance whatsoever to withdraw. Moreover, his gun training expertise is highly relevant to the degree of culpability - he knew he was not entitled to fire.

 

[04009margaret]

Barry Bateman @barrybateman · now 8 seconds ago
#OscarTrial Pistorius has been joined by his psychologist Lore Hartzenberg in the dock. He appears to be weeping. BB

How convenient

 

[patCee]

Barry Roux made repeated references to the principle of ubuntu and in particular a book called UBuntu and the Law. As this excerpt from the book explains:

Ubuntu expresses a conception of humanity and an ethic (a set of moral and political principles) which emphasise group solidarity, the interdependence of members of a society, and the interconnected value of human lives in community.

It derives from a Zulu phrase, umuntu ngumuntu ngabantu: a person is a person through other people .

Roux employed it to stress his argument that Pistorius ought to be given the chance to “make good” his crime by giving something back to society. Sending him to prison would not serve this aim, the defence argues.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...storius-sentencing-judge-final-arguments-live

I don't think that cleaning 16 hours a month would pay back anything to society.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Masipa just said, "Yes, Mr Roux". But it's Nel who is on his feet. Roux is the only advocate in this courtroom obviously as far as Masipa is concerned.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Rohit Kachroo @RohitKachrooITV
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Oscar Pistorius standing in the dock during this adjournment silently praying with his siblings

uke:

 

[lithgow1]

andrew harding @BBCAndrewH · 55s 56 seconds ago
Spoke to assessor in break, who explained that she and colleague can advise Judge re sentence, but don't have a vote. #OscarPistorius