Trial Discussion Thread #58 - 14.17.10, Day 47 ~ sentencing~

[LemonMousse]

Couldn't get in here earlier -- maybe too much action on the server!!

Anyway...

ROUX:

1. hit below the belt/cheap shot bringing up "suicide," as in "if you toss him in prison and he kills himself - which will be likely - his blood is going to be on your hands.

NEL:

1.He said something like, "Society; it's what we want." Actually, theoretically-speaking, Vermeer had a valid point when she said that sentencing can't be about what society wants but about what's in society's best interest.

2. HOWEVER, Nel again mentioned that if society doesn't get what it thinks is justice they'll take the law into their own hands. (Masipa, did you see those 5 HUGE guys sitting in the back row two days ago? That's what I'm talking about.) Maybe Nel was matching Roux but flipped. If you don't put him away he may be killed on the outside and his blood is going to be on your hands.

3. What was his comment about when he said, "'Dolus Eventualis' (long pause as the phrase hangs in the air) ... lawyers will be debating that for days..." a. An appeal is coming? b. We're debating whether we will appeal? c. If we don't like the sentence we'll appeal? d. Other?

4. OP, if home incarceration would be "staying in a luxurious house," at which phrase Lois then shakes her head "No, No" ( WTF? Yes, yes!)

5. He's making great points but if I filter them through JM's view that it was an ACCIDENT, he didn't MEAN to do it, he didn't know she was there. ( Incorrect, yes, but thats what she seem to think.) then she won't agree with Nel at all.


I'd appreciate any comments/thoughts on any/all of the above.

THANKS!

My thoughts and comments?

i agree with every word.

<not helpful>

 

[JudgeJudi]

Nel is doing well at pulling the strands together today.

 

[04009margaret]

Can't you download Hola? That allowed me to view the Australian show that had the re-enactment video. It allows your computer to think it's in any country in the world so usually unviewable stuff can be accessed.

Zwie, you don't need to actuallydownlaod it, it's just an extension app that you add to your browser. You can turn it on whenever you need it. It takes all of 2 minutes to set it up.

 

[zwiebel]

N: ....having regard to the size of the bathroom, caliber of bullets, knowing there was someone behind the door, would a reasonable person....and Nel goes on to remind court how OP said he didn't fire into shower because he was aware the ricochet might hit him.

N: Not a momentary lapse of concentration.....not at all

 

[Really?]

I can feel m'ladys negative energy towards Nel all the way from here in my lounge room. Straight away she straightened up , leaned back and crossed her arms in classic defensive stance.

Oscar is already a free man

Yes......I saw this too...even yesterday I switched it off after Nel asked for the 1st tea break.......MiLady was not nice to him.....after joking with Roux about how she will give him 4 1/2 minutes after he asked for 5......oh how funny....NOT!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

OMG, Carl Pistorius is really, really angry.

 

[patCee]

Nel: OP calculated the ricochet could hit him. Good, hopefully another factor in any future state appeal.

 

[K.T]

Whenever I heard Roux quoting the State's Weskoppies head psychologist - the singular Dr Scholtz report - I wanted to throw something at the screen.

That man needs some serious training in domestic violence and other things! From the subtext of his report I would question his methodology, his results and the construction of the report. It obviously worries me more than more obvious expert state or defense witness issues...

 

[Susza]

Nel is GOOD!

 

[zwiebel]

N:....when somebody dies, there's nothing more serious. That's what we're dealing with.

 

[jimmy73]

I think Nel is doing well so far. Whether this affects Massipa's sentencing remains to be seen.

 

[zwiebel]

Nel quotes past case law where it says the amount accused deviates from reasonable behaviour should be taken into account.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Oscar Trial Channel @OscarTrial199 · 3 Min. Vor 3 Minuten

When someone dies...there's nothing more serious #oscartrial Nel: in murder and culpable homicide the fact it there's loss of life.
0 Antworten
Oscar Trial Channel @OscarTrial199 · 3 Min. Vor 3 Minuten

#oscartrial Nel says if defence argue for correctional supervision they're only paying lip service to understanding seriousness of offence.
0 Antworten

 

[zwiebel]

N:...We are dealing with this accused, firing four shots into a toilet door, not a soccer referee

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Barry Bateman @barrybateman · 7 Sek. Vor 8 Sekunden

#OscarTrial Nel: we’re not dealing with a car accident - we’re dealing with this accused with gun in hand firing four shots through a door.
0 Antworten
Barry Bateman @barrybateman · 2 Min. Vor 2 Minuten

#OscarTrial Nel: killing a human being is the most serious offence. BB
0 Antworten
Barry Bateman @barrybateman · 3 Min. Vor 3 Minuten

#OscarTrial Nel: correctional supervision would only be paying lip service to the seriousness of this offence. BB
0 Antworten

 

[patCee]

Nel now throwing his glove into the ring. Setting out the scene for an appeal (dolus eventualis)

 

[Fuskier]

ROUX:
1. hit below the belt/cheap shot bringing up "suicide," as in "if you toss him in prison and he kills himself - which will be likely - his blood is going to be on your hands.

NEL:
1.He said something like, "Society; it's what we want."

2. HOWEVER, Nel again mentioned that if society doesn't get what it thinks is justice they'll take the law into their own hands. (Masipa, did you see those 5 HUGE guys sitting in the back row two days ago? That's what I'm talking about.)
<respectfully snipped>
I'd appreciate any comments/thoughts on any/all of the above. Thanks

1. Roux: Agree suicide angle is manipulative IMO;
2. Nel: Forewarning Judge that society wants justice to be seen to be done by the Court; if not, it risks society taking the law into its own hands.

One is a manipulative tactic, the other warns re public perception re lack of justice in this case IMO.

 

[zwiebel]

N: If the accused had acted like a reasonable person early that evening......spoken to the person beside him, established if the deceased had heard him....is negligent, unreasonable actions started before he reached the bathroom...his whole actions that night were unreasonable....

 

[lithgow1]

David Dadic @DavidDadic · 2m 2 minutes ago
I think we can foresee the future through this argument - if the sentence is not harsh enough, state may appeal looking for eventualis.

 

[kaos]

A worrying point I think Roux got across was if he was hospitalised then he will be seen as getting special treatment by the other prisoners. I thought at the time Roux was quite clever boxing the prison official into that statement but equally, Judge Masipa should know if OP walks away from this, he'll be considered as getting special treatment from the judiciary.