Trial Discussion Thread #6 - 14.03.13-14, Day 9-10

[seattlechiquita]

Hello friends, just popping in to say hello --- :wave:

Work has kept me busy, can barely keep up and catch up with Twitter. Wish I could hang with you all ALL THE TIMEEEEE. Some tweets are beyond hilarious.

 

[james83]

I'm really curious about the smashed in metal bath panel, could it fit in perfectly with Stipp's testimony

Woken by 3 bangs- the panel being smashed in?, someone lost there temper?
Women screaming
Phoned security(same time as gunshots)
The gunshots(says he heard 3 but was on the phone at the time so could be mistaken).
Heard a man shouting for help as oscar says he did
leaves his house to investigate and in the meantime oscar is bashing the toilet door down.

Just a theory, as the state acknowledges 2 sets of bangs and insists of course the second were gunshots.

 

[james83]

I'm really curious about the smashed in metal bath panel, could it fit in perfectly with Stipp's testimony

Woken by 3 bangs- the panel being smashed in?, someone lost there temper?
Women screaming
Phoned security(same time as gunshots)
The gunshots(says he heard 3 but was on the phone at the time so could be mistaken).
Heard a man shouting for help as oscar says he did
leaves his house to investigate and in the meantime oscar is bashing the toilet door down.

Just a theory, as the state acknowledges 2 sets of bangs and insists of course the second were gunshots.

Also

No idea what kind of metal or what's hitting it but you get my point.

[video=youtube;TvWTNnY4w9w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvWTNnY4w9w[/video]

 

[minor4th]

I have known about the phones for a long time. There were 5 altogether. Two belonged to Reeva and three belonged to OP - two of which were blackberries and the iPhone he did not hand in and Roux mentioned it at the bail hearing.

IIRC the two blackberries were black phones which were on a black table in his bedroom. But that could be wrong as he went over that quickly.

He was confused at his first visit because the found found in the bathroom had been separated from its cover so he thought there were two. But then the photographer told him later that he found two phones in the bathroom but we were not shown both of them.

Thank you.

 

[minor4th]

When the news first broke about this last year and it became apparent that OP had carried Reeva's body downstairs i posted on another forum that this was a good way of messing up forensics if she had been injured anywhere else in the house.

And on top of that, the police made their own mess of things and failed to investigate properly ...so little chance of finding out with any confidence what exactly happened and where if it's other than what is being presented in court

 

[Estelle]

I'm really curious about the smashed in metal bath panel, could it fit in perfectly with Stipp's testimony

Woken by 3 bangs- the panel being smashed in?, someone lost there temper?
Women screaming
Phoned security(same time as gunshots)
The gunshots(says he heard 3 but was on the phone at the time so could be mistaken).
Heard a man shouting for help as oscar says he did
leaves his house to investigate and in the meantime oscar is bashing the toilet door down.

Just a theory, as the state acknowledges 2 sets of bangs and insists of course the second were gunshots.

I can see you are doing a lot of creative thinking. But what I cannot work out is that there were four bullet holes through the door and then we now know there was a cartridge in the hall leading to the bathroom so how would it have got there? I have had no experience with guns.

 

[sorrell skye]

Tricia will be discussing this case tonight on her radio show. It's starting right now. She's also going to talk about cases, including the missing Malaysian airline flight, and the Dezirae Sheldon case.

http://www.iheart.com/live/extreme-talk-6302/

 

[Estelle]

Whose jeans do you think they were? Did OP change?

 

[lisasalinger]

I still have a mountain of testimony and photos to dig through tonight, but one thing that jumped out at me immediately is the damage to the bedroom door. Not the toilet door, the bedroom door.

Did Nel ask the investigator about the possible causes for that, or introduce any theories?

That sure is a big old red flag.

 

[Really?]

I saw the pic quite clearly on my iPad and there was nothing to indicate there had been any kind of disturbance in that lounge bar the drops of blood. Will try take a clearer screen shot.

well.....the PT did make a point of showing these pics with blood on them.....where i wonder in relation to the stairs are the furniture items located....if not near then why do they have any blood on them.

 

[Trooper]

And on top of that, the police made their own mess of things and failed to investigate properly ...so little chance of finding out with any confidence what exactly happened and where if it's other than what is being presented in court

it remains to be seen just who made the bigger mess of things, really. .Oscar or the police..

there are only two people who know exactly what happened that night in that house.. one is dead, and one is in the dock ....nothing can change that.. its highly unlikely an eye and ear witness will emerge who was hiding in the cupboard. No one on this earth is ever ever going to know exactly what happened.. Even Oscar cant know exactly what happened, because the event was between 2 people and one of those cant tell anyone exactly what happened to her, and why.

Oscar will forever hold on to his version . . Reeva is forever silenced.. murder most always happens privately.. between 2 people..

Obviously, The State of South Africa doesn't have confidence in Oscars version of events.. otherwise he wouldn't be on trial for murder..

So its up to the judge to adjudicate how much weight Oscars version holds in relation to the entirety of evidence presented against him.




Confidence in Oscars version is a choice.. it isn't compulsory.

 

[Really?]

The thing is, the bedroom is carpeted, so not the jeans and there are clear blood pattern next to the phone and there was none near the duvet or jeans. The towel in the bathroom is light blue, we saw NO shots of Reeva at all so I will go with that black fabric being towels that were covering her at the bottom of the stairs?

I believe they referred to them as black plastic bags......am I wrong?

 

[Trooper]

what was made clear was that by the time Von Rensberg got there, ( first responding police officer) along with his constable/driver... Constable Christo, there was Pieter Baba, ( patrol guard ) Jacob ( patrol guard) Johan Standar, Clarice Standar, one lady paramedic, one man paramedic, and the Body on the foyer tiles.. Oscar was in the kitchen.

Dr Stipp had returned to his home .

7 living people in the house, 1 dead person.

out of those.. only 2 go upstairs BEFORE the police follow the blood trail up..

Oscar. who zipped upstairs while Dr Stipp was trying to find signs of life on the body,

and Clarice Standar, who, having run out of plastic bags and kitchen linen ( hand towels, tea towels) to try and stem the blood had gone upstairs to the linen press to get more towels. and I am presuming she means big towels, bath towels. ( her words to Von Rensberg , she herself has not testified as yet)

Someone opened that bathroom window to its full capacity, it is 2 panels, one slides back on the other fixed pane. A heavy full width wooden slat Venetian blind ( I know its heavy because I have the same sort,but not the same colour ) is drawn half way down both both panes, the open one and the one it slides across..

the window is high off the bathroom floor.. as most bathroom windows are.. a privacy issue.. its not a floor to ceiling window, nor is it half wall height.. its more one third wall height, from the top down..

there is nothing under the panel that opens where an intruder could get a foothold.. ( they have to duck under the half closed blind as well, they'd drop like a stone onto the tiled floor from about 5 feet . 5 1/2 feet , then have to scrabble to their feet , zip into the toilet thru the toilet door, fiddle with the strange key, then lock themselves in.



that's a LOT of noise. and since he'd heard 'noises in the bathroom 'before, onother occasions, waking up and checking it out, ( Samanthas testimony ) ... its just hard to believe that he went calmly to sleep with that Bathroom window ENTIRELY open., and the blinds HALF closed..

 

[Trooper]

if he was a man who was terrified of burglars, said he had been invaded before, got death threats , etc.. that kind of man wouldn't go to sleep calmly. especially if his bedroom window /door was open onto his balcony , as well.

noooo..


the kind of man who is overly security conscious, who locks his bedroom door , who keeps a baseball bat, a cricket bat, an air gun, a fully loaded Parabellum gun, loaded with Black Talon bullets under his bed at all times within instant reach goes round and checks every damn window and door on each floor 4 times, then lies down, then gets up and checks it all again.

A bloke who is paranoid about security would hardly lock his bedroom door.. then.. leave all the windows open.

Bathroom window, bedroom window/door ( sliding full length window)


nooooo..not likely..

I don't think he was fearful at all. He liked to cause fear.. ( speeding with passengers, firing a gun in a crowded restaurant, firing a gun in a travelling car with passengers, slamming doors on girls broken legs, threatening to break other chaps legs. screaming at people,in particular women.. ( Sams sister, sam herself ) ( Samanthas testimony ) .... pulling a gun on some stranger who happened to be driving into his own estate security gate, .....

just my opinion.

 

[Pisto_lius]

An (old) interview, given by a paramedic who was among the first on the scene after the shooting:

February 17 2013

The paramedic, who asked not to be named, said:

“There was a lot of activity at the house. The police were moving in and out and there were private security guards outside.

“When we arrived a woman, who never told us her name, met us in the driveway and showed us through the door. As soon as I walked in, I saw a woman’s body by the stairs and she was covered in blood. There was also a blood trail up the stairs that I could see.

“Oscar Pistorius, dressed in shorts and a T-shirt, was just standing there looking at the body. His right leg and arm were covered in blood.

“He looked rattled,” said the medic, adding that Steenkamp had been wearing a black sweat top and long pants [?], but no shoes.

[....]

The medic said Pistorius told them Steenkamp had stopped breathing three minutes before the ambulance arrived.

Read more: http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cou...of-blood-up-the-stairs-1.1471721#.UyJRWT95OSp

Paramedics arrived at 03:42....

three minutes before = 03:39....

Nel + Roux said: Reeva's last scream after shots = 03:17....

20 minutes for cover up with the help of *xyz*.....
.
.

 

[Trooper]

'“He looked rattled,” said the medic,'

I bet he did.. for sure..


He was 'distraught' when Dr Stipp arrived some considerable time before this, ( Dr Stipp had actually left the premises and gone home before the paramedics arrived.). he found no signs of life on Reeva.. he estimated roughly she had been dead for a few minutes based on the condition of her eyes..

 

[minor4th]

An (old) interview, given by a paramedic who was among the first on the scene after the shooting:





Paramedics arrived at 03:42....

three minutes before = 03:39....

Nel + Roux said: Reeva's last scream after shots = 03:17....

20 minutes for cover up with the help of *xyz*.....
.
.

Yeah, I don't think Roux has ever agreed that there was a woman screaming at all. Nor does he believe the shots were at 3:17. His case is that it was the cricket bat at 3:17 and it was Oscar screaming before that.

3:15:51 Stipp calls security and hears 2nd set of bangs - other witnesses hear these bangs at the same time

3:20 Oscar calls Netcare

3:21 Oscar calls security mobile phone (crying)

3:22 security calls Oscar back (everything is fine/I'm OK)

3:26 Baba arrives at Oscar's house, Stipp and Stander are already there

3:27 Stipp dials security again

3:28 Stander calls ambulance from Stipp's phone

So when exactly is Oscar doing all this covering up?

 

[Madeleine74]

So in that case Roux alleges the shots were fired even earlier? That means Reeva spent even more time gravely injured before an ambulance was called.

 

[minor4th]

So in that case Roux alleges the shots were fired even earlier? That means Reeva spent even more time gravely injured before an ambulance was called.

Yes, the defense case is that the first gunshots heard by Stipp happened before the second set of bangs at 3:17 (cricket bat) heard by Burger, Johnson and Stipp. But it was not until 3:17 that Oscar broke through the door, unlocked it and got to Reeva - three minutes later he was on the phone with Netcare. When the ambulance was called by Stander at 3:28, they did not arrive until 3:42 so it's not like they could have gotten there in time to do anything if Oscar had called them at 3:18 instead of 3:20.

 

[Trooper]

Yeah, I don't think Roux has ever agreed that there was a woman screaming at all. Nor does he believe the shots were at 3:17. His case is that it was the cricket bat at 3:17 and it was Oscar screaming before that.

3:15:51 Stipp calls security and hears 2nd set of bangs - other witnesses hear these bangs at the same time

3:20 Oscar calls Netcare

3:21 Oscar calls security mobile phone (crying)

( no.. Baba calls Oscar, he calls because Stipp in his call to Baba has indicated the sounds come from Oscars direction... Oscar isn't crying on this call. )

3:22 security calls Oscar back (everything is fine/I'm OK)

( no. this is the call where Oscar is crying )

3:26 Baba arrives at Oscar's house, Stipp and Stander are already there


3:27 Stipp dials security again

( no.. Stipp is AT the house.. he ASkS security ( Standar) if anyone has called an ambulance.. )

3:28 Stander calls ambulance from Stipp's phone

( no. Standar directs BABA to call the ambulance, Baba and Jacob.. he delagates .

So when exactly is Oscar doing all this covering up?