Trial Discussion Thread #7 weekend thread

[FrancesB]

BBM

Four separate ear witnesses heard a woman screaming before the gunshots. A few of them heard a woman screaming during the gunshots. Dr. Stipp saw the bathroom light on immediately after the gunshots (alluding to the possibility that it was on all along).

If we believe these witnesses, the only woman that was in the house at the time, Reeva, was obviously screaming for a reason and Oscar would have obviously heard it. Which means he knew she was in the bathroom.

This is the proof that the State is beginning to build.

Now it certainly is your prerogative to not believe any witnesses. And the Defense would like everyone to believe that the female screaming was actually Oscar.

Absolutely, and there are more witnesses to come, including Pistorius's live in gardener Mr Chiziweni and Pistorius's direct neighbors the Nhlengethwas.

 

[FrancesB]

I wonder if RS used to sleep in the guest bedroom but I believe Martin Rooney (UK athlete) had stayed there for a month in January. But I do not think RS went to bed at all that night. However, it seems strange that her things were there beside the bed and in the bathroom. RS must have been prepared in case she decided to stay there as it seems she had no intention of doing so earlier.

I wonder if they were all actually in the house or in the garage depending on the times they arrived.

It will be interesting to hear from Clarice Stander and learn more about what Carl and Oldwage were doing in the kitchen. OP seemed more concerned about what he wanted to get out of his safe than about Reeva.

You can add Justin Divaris and Sam to the list of people who were there although they arrived later and spoke to OP in the garage.

By the time Oldwage arrived, Van Rensburg had already placed Pistorius under arrest and put him in the Garage. Not too sure when Carl Pistorius turned up, but I think after Van Rensburg.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

I remember sb saying he was shirtless all the time and will try to find it but I do think he had a shirt on him at the time of the shotting .. Stipp also had mentioned a light colored shalllow on the bathroom window.. So I hope that shirt does not happen to be lost just like the watch and the missing door pieces and the sock (rumor for now) ..
In below photos his upper part of the body seems quite clean imo ..

View attachment 41945

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

And in this photo upper arm seems rather clean

 

[haynat21]

Hi long time lurker here but thought it was time to join in and say thanks to everyone who provides so much input onto this thread :loveyou:

I was just reading through Bothas statement he gave at the bail hearing (posted on the previous page i think) and although im not sure how truthful he is i found it interesting that he said it was the police that wanted access to the safe not the brother, they even requested a locksmith come to open it as they were looking for evidence of offshore accounts or property to stop OP being granted bail at the hearing. Doesn't really change anything about the case but I wanted to join in :seeya:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Maybe they had him remove his shirt to photograph scratches or blood patterns or lack of both???i dunno

Just I found this:

Barry Bateman on Twitter 14.3.2014 05:14

Roux: Botha gave interviews referring to Pistorius' bloodied shirt. Where is the shirt?
van Rensburg: there is no shirt.

I'm lost, I need an explanation.

 

[04009margaret]

Maybe they had him remove his shirt to photograph scratches or blood patterns or lack of both???i dunno

When the first officers arrived on the scene OP was shirtless as testified to in court

 

[Really?]

Hi long time lurker here but thought it was time to join in and say thanks to everyone who provides so much input onto this thread :loveyou:

I was just reading through Bothas statement he gave at the bail hearing (posted on the previous page i think) and although im not sure how truthful he is i found it interesting that he said it was the police that wanted access to the safe not the brother, they even requested a locksmith come to open it as they were looking for evidence of offshore accounts or property to stop OP being granted bail at the hearing. Doesn't really change anything about the case but I wanted to join in :seeya:

:welcome4:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I remember sb saying he was shirtless all the time and will try to find it but I do think he had a shirt on him at the time of the shotting .. Stipp also had mentioned a light colored shalllow on the bathroom window.. So I hope that shirt does not happen to be lost just like the watch and the missing door pieces and the sock (rumor for now) ..
In below photos his upper part of the body seems quite clean imo ..

View attachment 41945

View attachment 41946

See my post #206: no shirt

 

[G.bng]

At last thread I didn't understand the problem with OP's clothing and Baba's question regarding this.

OP was dressed with a bloodied t-shirt. When he already was sitting in the garage (after being in the kitchen), he was dressed with it. At his own arriving, Botha saw him like this. Why there are photos with free upper body, shown at court? And again: why asked Baba (he must have seen OP with shirt).

According to Rensberg who claims to have been first at the scene OP was bare chested with no T-shirt or shirt on. It therefore seems to have been accepted by all sides that either Botha embellished about this or he must have been confused, whatever, there was apparently no "bloody" shirt.

Being my first comment on this informative blog and I am unsure how the comment/reply system works, and my reply does not appear to have slotted in under the quote so please forgive if out of sequence while I learn. : - )

 

[soozieqtips]

How do we know one of the friends or family members didn't take a watch to make it look like the police were thieves? If I recall, the police were searched and nothing was found on them, but family members were at the house very early on. I guess they weren't searched. Do we know if anyone other than the police had access to the watches after the photo of the eight was taken?

 

[FrancesB]

How do we know one of the friends or family members didn't take a watch to make it look like the police were thieves? If I recall, the police were searched and nothing was found on them, but family members were at the house very early on. I guess they weren't searched. Do we know if anyone other than the police had access to the watches after the photo of the eight was taken?

Van Rensburg got photographer Van Starden to take photos as soon as they arrived, and at that point, all watches were there, there was blood on some of them and also blood on the case they were stored in. Later, Aimee Pistorius went to the bedroom and took one of the watches, this was only done after Van Rensburg made it policy that anyone going up there to remove items were recorded and photographed doing so.

At some point, Van Rensburg either noticed a watch was missing, or he was told a watch was missing. But at no point after Van Rensburg arrived, was any family or friend allowed upstairs, other than Aimee Pistorius and she was watched like a hawk.

Just as well Van Rensburg was up there with the photographer, taking photographic evidence, rather than wasting time asking endless questions to the suspect who had every reason to lie and obfuscate.

 

[Cherwell]

About the shirt, could be that OP had been wearing a T shirt but took it off to stem bleeding, along with the towels etc.

With injuries to head, right arm, and right hip, how does blood end up on floor like this and how does blood end up in toilet leaving this pattern?

Already answered, but I would add that even minor head wounds produce a lot of blood.

 

[Interested Bystander]

According to Rensberg who claims to have been first at the scene OP was bare chested with no T-shirt or shirt on. It therefore seems to have been accepted by all sides that either Botha embellished about this or he must have been confused, whatever, there was apparently no "bloody" shirt.

Being my first comment on this informative blog and I am unsure how the comment/reply system works, and my reply does not appear to have slotted in under the quote so please forgive if out of sequence while I learn. : - )

Stander and his daughter, Baba + guard and Stipp were there before Rensberg. They arrived at around 03.17. The paramedics arrived next, also before Rensberg. Rensberg was the first policeman on the scene at around 03.55 followed by Botha, I think about 15 minutes later.



http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/14/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial/

The former police colonel first took the stand Thursday and said paramedics were there when he arrived at Pistorius' address about 3:55 a.m., but Steenkamp was dead.

 

[Really?]

According to Rensberg who claims to have been first at the scene OP was bare chested with no T-shirt or shirt on. It therefore seems to have been accepted by all sides that either Botha embellished about this or he must have been confused, whatever, there was apparently no "bloody" shirt.

Being my first comment on this informative blog and I am unsure how the comment/reply system works, and my reply does not appear to have slotted in under the quote so please forgive if out of sequence while I learn. : - )

Thanks for joining the discussion........and.....:wagon:

:welcome3: to all of new posters

 

[Madeleine74]

Even if he does have a personality disorder (and I'm not saying he does or does not), if he knows right from wrong (which he surely does), then any other personality disorder or quirk is not a defense, IMO. He knew enough to try and hide what really happened. He knew enough to call in supportive people to assist him, and get his lawyer on the phone right away.

I think he's been coddled, spoiled, and finally treated like royalty because of his athletic accomplishments. He's immature and trigger-happy. But none of those things can or should absolve him of murder.

 

[curiousjo]

According to Botha - OP wearing bloody T-shirt and shorts, but had washed hands.

Quote: Botha went into the garage, where Pistorius, in a bloody shirt and shorts, wearing his prosthetic legs, was sitting on a gym bench, surrounded by training equipment. “His head was in his hands, and he was crying. There was blood on him, but his hands were clean. We said, ‘Did you wash your hands?’ And he said, ‘Yes, because they were full of blood.’ ”

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/06/oscar-pistorius-murder

 

[G.bng]

Stander and his daughter, Baba + guard and Stipp were there before Rensberg. They arrived at around 03.17. The paramedics arrived next, also before Rensberg. Rensberg was the first policeman on the scene at around 03.55 followed by Botha, I think about 15 minutes later.

I didn't mean Rensberg was the first person on the scene merely the first on the scene between him and Botha, i.e. the first to arrive from the police investigation team. As you note there were many people already at the scene when he arrived, going from the estate security and the management with his family, the good neighbour Stipp, a load of OP's family and friends, and finally the paramedics. Quite a crowd to oversee around a murder scene !

 

[Deleted member 102539]

There are blood stains up to the knees of his limbs and his shorts are also bloodied, but his naked chest appears to be clean (the upper arms too - IMO).

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-moments-killed-girlfriend.html#ixzz2w8g6nP5g
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

On the photos I see OP's naked chest to be clean just there, where before obviously was worn a t-shirt. It fits and I think, Botha said the truth and Baba had seen OP at first with t-shirt. I don't know, why Baba knew discrepancies, but didn't ask about the clothing without good reason. - I am beginning to understand ... :blushing:

 

[Dmacky]

OP has his own "official" website. There are a lot of messages of SUPPORT and well wishes, as HE faces his trial for the "ACCIDENT". I can't help but wonder that if Reeva had been their sister, daughter, or friend would they still feel the same way? I think not


http://oscarpistorius.com/