Trial Discussion Thread #8 - 14.03.17, Day 11

[AlwaysShocked]

"I believe the holster was in the drawer in the bedside table, while the gun itself was under the bed (without holster)"

If this was so, then why would the holster be out at all? If gun was kept unholstered under the bed, all he would have to do is reach for it. If hoster was kept empty inside a drawer, why would it be on top of bedside table?

 

[AlwaysShocked]

I missed the testimony today about the broken window. This was in the lounge on the first floor? Did they say if any broken glass was found either inside or outside of this window?

 

[Really?]

I missed the testimony today about the broken window. This was in the lounge on the first floor? Did they say if any broken glass was found either inside or outside of this window?

It was reported that NO broken glass was found either inside the home nor outside the window....perhaps an older altercation ....wth?

 

[sorrell skye]

I missed the testimony today about the broken window. This was in the lounge on the first floor? Did they say if any broken glass was found either inside or outside of this window?

Van Staden (crime scene photographer) said he didn't observe any glass on the ground.

ETA You beat me to it, Really!

 

[soozieqtips]

He (Mr Rens) told Barry Roux, Pistorius’s barrister, that gun-owners and collectors were by their nature

“upstanding people”, and far from “reckless”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...t-2700-on-guns-before-Steenkamp-shooting.html

Upstanding - moral, law-abiding, principled

"Far from reckless" - cautious, careful, prudent

Reckless - Indifferent to, or disregardful of consequences. Impulsive, hot-headed and impetuous.


OP doesn't appear to fit into Rens description of gun owners.

 

[sorrell skye]

Prosecution needs to drive home the point that the prior time when Oscar went into "Code Red, combat mode" he took the time to investigate and carefully check the house eventually determining it was the washing machine that freaked him out. However, this time we are supposed to believe he never even bothered to look around the same room he was in and check the bed to see if Reeva was there? Never call out her name? Give me a freakin' break.

Even if he is a loose cannon (which I do believe he is), it doesn't pass the sniff test.

In addition to the laundry room recon mode, Sam Taylor testified that upon two occasions when she spent the night, when OP heard a mysterious sound he consulted with her prior to getting out of bed to investigate.

I agree - it doesn't pass the sniff test.

 

[Really?]

He (Mr Rens) told Barry Roux, Pistorius’s barrister, that gun-owners and collectors were by their nature

“upstanding people”, and far from “reckless”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...t-2700-on-guns-before-Steenkamp-shooting.html

Upstanding - moral, law-abiding, principled

"Far from reckless" - cautious, careful, prudent

Reckless - Indifferent to, or disregardful of consequences. Impulsive, hot-headed and impetuous.


OP doesn't appear to fit into Rens description of gun owners.

I read on here he scored 30 questions out of 32 correctly.......wonder what he got wrong. :scared:

 

[sorrell skye]

OP to the Police : " I always win."

Oh dear - I'd forgotten about that. TY for the reminder!

The conversation appears in a BBC documentary Oscar Pistorius: What really happened?”

Among the revelations is how Pistorius, 26, showed bravado after he was arrested over the Valentine’s Day shooting and told police: “I’ll survive. I always win.”

It was his response to a senior officer who had warned him: “You could go to jail for a very long time, Oscar.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-suicidal-reveals-best-1753776

 

[Really?]

Oh dear - I'd forgotten about that. TY for the reminder!

The conversation appears in a BBC documentary Oscar Pistorius: What really happened?”

Among the revelations is how Pistorius, 26, showed bravado after he was arrested over the Valentine’s Day shooting and told police: “I’ll survive. I always win.”

It was his response to a senior officer who had warned him: “You could go to jail for a very long time, Oscar.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-suicidal-reveals-best-1753776

Just to jump off this post.......OP is an attractive guy >.moo.....but, as this trial progresses, in my eyes he is getting uglier by the day

 

[steveml]

He (Mr Rens) told Barry Roux, Pistorius’s barrister, that gun-owners and collectors were by their nature

“upstanding people”, and far from “reckless”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...t-2700-on-guns-before-Steenkamp-shooting.html

Upstanding - moral, law-abiding, principled

"Far from reckless" - cautious, careful, prudent

Reckless - Indifferent to, or disregardful of consequences. Impulsive, hot-headed and impetuous.


OP doesn't appear to fit into Rens description of gun owners.

I agree. It was really a pointless leading statement from Roux to get a gun dealer to suggest that all firearm owners are upstanding etc. What else was he likely to say? I supply guns to all types of nutjobs, any day of the week 24/7

 

[sorrell skye]

Catching up on everything from last night and just want to clarify that I am understanding this correctly:

The white cell phone was found underneath the towel/bathmat that the gun was sitting on top of. And this white phone was in addition to the black phone (with the case that was off).

In conclusion, there were indeed 2 cell phones in that bathroom, one white and one black... both found in the location of the bathmat and gun. Am I correct?

The black phone was found partially underneath the bathmat near the pistol, but was visible without moving anything.

The white phone wasn't visible until Van Staden lifted up a bloody towel (to see if there was any potential evidence beneath the towel).

So yes - 2 cell phones were found in the bathroom.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

"Moving to album eight, Van Rensburg said this contained photographs of the sealing of the scene, the alarm system and safes. Van Rensburg said there was an alarm system in the house as well as beams across the garden.

Album 10, with photographs 842 to 844 removed, was entered into the record. Van Rensburg said this contained photographs of all electronic equipment on the scene – cellphones, iPads, memory sticks and and similar paraphernalia – as well as all lighting in and around the house. Also photographs of security scanners and lamp posts outside Pistorius’s house."

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/oscar-trial-police-pics-pistoriuss-bloodied-home-scrutinised

So it sounds as if OP's house did indeed have a pretty sophisticated security system. (To me, "beams across the garden" = pretty sophisticated) I suppose the question remains as to whether it was operable and turned on. But he felt comfortable enough to sleep with the bedroom patio door open, so that is saying something.

--------------

I am shocked (heh heh) to learn of the broken window in the first floor lounge. This, along with the kicked-in, shot-through bedroom door - whether they happened the night of the shooting or at an earlier time - do not bode well for OP's case.

Regarding the blood on the wall above the headboard and on the duvet, it leads me to ask what in God's name actually went on in that house that night?

For as much as Roux wants to make out the police to be deficient and bumbling, I must say that I think they are to be congatulated on immediately recognizing a crime scene for a crime scene despite the accused perpetrator being a "national hero". No crime scene investigation is ever perfect, it seems. But these guys obviously did a really good job really early on. The photographer arriving so promptly is just amazing, and lends so much more credibility than if he had arrived hours later.

 

[Really?]

The black phone was found partially underneath the bathmat near the pistol, but was visible without moving anything.

The white phone wasn't visible until Van Staden lifted up a bloody towel (to see if there was any potential evidence beneath the towel).

So yes - 2 cell phones were found in the bathroom.

:Banana3:......please please please let there be something on those phones in regards to this "incident".

 

[kittychi]

OP is working up a retch........someone get the bucket ready

:violin:

:floorlaugh:

 

[minor4th]

Here's Van Staden's timeline according to photo metadata and testimony:


FEBRUARY 14

04:50 a.m. - Straden arrived, Botha told him what happened and took him through the scene (first time)

* Straden then asked Both to clear scene

* Straden then went to garage

*Straden conducts PR test on OP's arms

5:12 a.m. Straden takes 4 photos of OP in garage (Photos #155-158)


5:15 a.m. - Went to front and photographed entrance (photo #2)


5:16 a.m. - 5:43 a.m. -takes photographs of scene inside, including downstairs and Reeva's injuries, (photos #3 -13; #132 - 155)


5:45 a.m - 5:50 a.m - Staden photographs crime scene going up he stairs (photos #14 - #27)


5:51 a.m. - 5:55 a.m. - Staden photographs upstairs hallway and area outside OP bedroom (photos #27 - #39)


5:55 a.m.- 5:56 a.m. - pictures of the contents of display case and wide angle view of display case (photos #51m #53, #54)


5:58 a.m. - Staden starts taking photographs in bedroom (photo #55)

* Photo # 56 -fan, duvet, ipad, grey t shirt 5:58

* Photo # 68 - duvet, jeans, black fan unplugged

*Photos #72,#73 - bedroom, sandal is seen, overnight bag on couch

*Photo #76 -spots on wall- above left headboard​

5:59 a.m. - Photo of bedroom looking toward bathroom (photo #60, #77)


6:00 a.m - Staden photographs the overnight bag on the couch (photo #78) and the thermometer switched off (photo #79)


6:01 a.m. - photograph of watches in case with blood smear (photo #67)


6:01 a.m. - 6:06 a.m. - photos hallway to bathroom, cartridge case, view into bathroom from hallway, close up of cartridge case, blood drops (photos #80-87)


6:21 a.m. - bedside table with a print magazine, possibly another phone, and holster on the table pushed against the back wall (photos #74, #75)


7:34 a.m. - 7:36 a.m. -duvet spread out by VS (photos #69 -71)


7:39 - 7:40 a.m. - Staden takes 5 photos OP's prostheses (photos #159 - 163)


7:43 a.m. - another view of sunglasses display case (photo #52)


7:59 a.m. - stereo in OP bedroom (photo #62)


7:59 a.m. -8:00 a.m. - various photos of OP's effects (medicine maybe?) (photos #63 -66)


8:02 a.m. - photo magazine and ammo pouch, found by Van Staden in the drawer on the right hand bedside table (photos #57 -#59)


12:06 pm -12:07 pm – Photos of damage to OP’s bedroom door (photos #41, #49, #50)



FEBRUARY 15

15:31 – 15:32 (3:31 pm – 3:32 pm) – photos of bedroom door with holes and damage (photos #40, #42 - #48)



Make of it what you will. I have only recorded the times they have discussed prior to the tea adjournment. I will add the additional times when I listen to the rest of the direct examination.

 

[beach]

The more testimony I hear, the more I feel the content of those cell phones are going to be very important. I think they have a story of their own to tell. Just a feeling I've had for a while and I get more curious every day.

heh, take that hunch for fwiw because I also felt Dominic Casey's emails, statements, etc... were going to be very insightful. (He was the Keystone PI hired by Cindy Anthony in the Caylee Anthony case). Epic fail. I was so disappointed to find out what a flake he is. :sigh:


I forget passwords to things like my cable co. acct, my Verizon log in, etc... but I have never once had to think twice about my cell phone password. Same for my Apple ID. I just use those so many times every day that it's second nature to me. I find it suspicious that Oscar couldn't remember his cell phone password and it never occurred to him again? Not since Reeva's death?

I don't know. Maybe I'm reading too much in to that. Maybe it's just hopeful thinking that we will get some answers ....

 

[sorrell skye]

TY for taking the time to create that awesome timeline Minor4th!

Something I noticed as I was looking at the evidence photos yesterday:

There was no key in the main bedroom keyhole.

In OP's BH affidavit, OP stated that he "felt trapped" because his bedroom door was locked.

Tying this in with the locked/then unlocked toilet door, a key was found in the keyhole of the toilet door.

If the bedroom door was locked, where is the key that OP would have used to unlock it? After all, he left the key in the toilet door after he unlocked it.

If he had to unlock the bedroom door to go downstairs, why did he not leave that key in the keyhole, as well?

Questions, questions, questions...

 

[Really?]

Here's Van Staden's timeline according to photo metadata and testimony:


FEBRUARY 14

04:50 a.m. - Straden arrived, Botha told him what happened and took him through the scene (first time)

* Straden then asked Both to clear scene

* Straden then went to garage

*Straden conducts PR test on OP's arms

5:12 a.m. Straden takes 4 photos of OP in garage (Photos #155-158)


5:15 a.m. - Went to front and photographed entrance (photo #2)


5:16 a.m. - 5:43 a.m. -takes photographs of scene inside, including downstairs and Reeva's injuries, (photos #3 -13; #132 - 155)


5:45 a.m - 5:50 a.m - Staden photographs crime scene going up he stairs (photos #14 - #27)


5:51 a.m. - 5:55 a.m. - Staden photographs upstairs hallway and area outside OP bedroom (photos #27 - #39)


5:55 a.m.- 5:56 a.m. - pictures of the contents of display case and wide angle view of display case (photos #51m #53, #54)


5:58 a.m. - Staden starts taking photographs in bedroom (photo #55)

* Photo # 56 -fan, duvet, ipad, grey t shirt 5:58

* Photo # 68 - duvet, jeans, black fan unplugged

*Photos #72,#73 - bedroom, sandal is seen, overnight bag on couch

*Photo #76 -spots on wall- above left headboard​

5:59 a.m. - Photo of bedroom looking toward bathroom (photo #60, #77)


6:00 a.m - Staden photographs the overnight bag on the couch (photo #78) and the thermometer switched off (photo #79)


6:01 a.m. - photograph of watches in case with blood smear (photo #67)


6:01 a.m. - 6:06 a.m. - photos hallway to bathroom, cartridge case, view into bathroom from hallway, close up of cartridge case, blood drops (photos #80-87)


6:21 a.m. - bedside table with a print magazine, possibly another phone, and holster on the table pushed against the back wall (photos #74, #75)


7:34 a.m. - 7:36 a.m. -duvet spread out by VS (photos #69 -71)


7:39 - 7:40 a.m. - Staden takes 5 photos OP's prostheses (photos #159 - 163)


7:43 a.m. - another view of sunglasses display case (photo #52)


7:59 a.m. - stereo in OP bedroom (photo #62)


7:59 a.m. -8:00 a.m. - various photos of OP's effects (medicine maybe?) (photos #63 -66)


8:02 a.m. - photo magazine and ammo pouch, found by Van Staden in the drawer on the right hand bedside table (photos #57 -#59)


12:06 pm -12:07 pm – Photos of damage to OP’s bedroom door (photos #41, #49, #50)



FEBRUARY 15

15:31 – 15:32 (3:31 pm – 3:32 pm) – photos of bedroom door with holes and damage (photos #40, #42 - #48)



Make of it what you will. I have only recorded the times they have discussed prior to the tea adjournment. I will add the additional times when I listen to the rest of the direct examination.

Thank you for this...very informative.

 

[Trooper]

TY for taking the time to create that awesome timeline Minor4th!

Something I noticed as I was looking at the evidence photos yesterday:

There was no key in the main bedroom keyhole.

In OP's BH affidavit, OP stated that he "felt trapped" because his bedroom door was locked.

Tying this in with the locked/then unlocked toilet door, a key was found in the keyhole of the toilet door.

If the bedroom door was locked, where is the key that OP would have used to unlock it? After all, he left the key in the toilet door after he unlocked it.

If he had to unlock the bedroom door to go downstairs, why did he not leave that key in the keyhole, as well?

Questions, questions, questions...

more questions re the bedroom door..

they go into the bedroom after a 'quiet dinner' ( don't know who cooked it, what it was, who ate what,) presumably locking the bedroom door behind them

Reeva, ( while it is not an exact science) ate some sort of salad, vegetable, cheese meal approx. 2 hours before her death.. being generous , make it 3.... that's midnight , say.. she has to get up, unlock the bedroom door, lock it behind her, go downstairs, rattle around in the fridge, eat, replace containers back in the fridge. come upstairs, unlock the bedroom door, go in, lock it behind her..


then Oscar has to unlock the bedroom door, to go downstairs to unlock and open the front door for the ambulance, go back upstairs to retrieve the body, then he hauls Reeva' s body downstairs....after having retrieved the toilet door key by crashing it with the bat, then unlocking it ..


so much embroidery, filigree , embellishment, accessorizing, in this performance here, my eyes are swiveling.

 

[04009margaret]

Am I confused or was there 5 gunshots? We have the 4 cartridge cases in the bathroom hallway & bathroom & the 1 that was found by the defence team in the toilet bowl.