My feeling is even if she believe's him his failure to attempt to identify his target and the fact he fired 4 times will result in him being convicted of murder.
Trial Discussion weekend Thread #18
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My feeling is even if she believe's him his failure to attempt to identify his target and the fact he fired 4 times will result in him being convicted of murder.
Gryffindor
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Agreed. He wasn't defending himself from anything or anyone. And he was not under direct threat or in harm's way.
steveml
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I really hope it gets a move on when they recommence.
It's so frustrating when they start for the day, and you think you're in for a good session and then...adjournment.
At least we don't need to trek all the way to court and back though. :smile:
Rumpole
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And you may well be right... it should not be regarded as Self Defense even if OP did believe there was an intruder.
But Nel has not argued that point at all.
The Judge will not be privy to discussions such as we have had here. She can only deliberate on the evidence and testimony and the Lawyers take on things that are "put before her"
MURDERER_SERVANT
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*I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom. I phoned Johan Stander ("Stander") who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance. I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door.
I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived. A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived. Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could, but she died in my arms.*
Stander and the doctor arrived at the same time but he did not mention the daughter . However she appeared very dedicated on the scene .
*It was shortly after 3am on February 14 when Oscar Pistorius called his close friend *Audrey and asked her to come to his home immediately. He was frantic. Something had gone horribly wrong. There had been a shooting.
A resident of Silver Woods, where she lives with her parents, the twenty-something dressed and went there as quickly as she could.
As Audrey opened the front door of No 286, at exactly 3.20am, she saw Pistorius carrying Reeva Steenkamp down the stairs, her body drenched in blood.
Pistorius placed his girlfriend's body on the floor and he and Audrey tried to stop the profuse bleeding. But they couldn't.
Audrey, a lawyer, and Pistorius, the fastest man on no legs, did everything they could. …*
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-348370309.html
I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived. A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived. Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could, but she died in my arms.*
Stander and the doctor arrived at the same time but he did not mention the daughter . However she appeared very dedicated on the scene .
*It was shortly after 3am on February 14 when Oscar Pistorius called his close friend *Audrey and asked her to come to his home immediately. He was frantic. Something had gone horribly wrong. There had been a shooting.
A resident of Silver Woods, where she lives with her parents, the twenty-something dressed and went there as quickly as she could.
As Audrey opened the front door of No 286, at exactly 3.20am, she saw Pistorius carrying Reeva Steenkamp down the stairs, her body drenched in blood.
Pistorius placed his girlfriend's body on the floor and he and Audrey tried to stop the profuse bleeding. But they couldn't.
Audrey, a lawyer, and Pistorius, the fastest man on no legs, did everything they could. …*
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-348370309.html
soozieqtips
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If the disability issue is going to be raised to support the claim he was more vulnerable than someone without his particular disability, then he shouldn't have been permitted to own guns in the first place. What good is the questionnaire if it doesn't apply to disabled people? And if it does apply to disabled people, then his disability isn't going to be his get-out-of-jail-free card. This is a guy who's lived on the edge and hasn't exactly shied away from danger, which kind of throws cold water on his convenient 'extreme' vulnerability that happened to emerge on the night he murdered Reeva.
Gryffindor
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I really hope it gets a move on when they recommence.
It's so frustrating when they start for the day, and you think you're in for a good session and then...adjournment.
At least we don't need to trek all the way to court and back though. :smile:
I know they're very reluctant for further delays. Here's hoping
Gryffindor
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He's also said in many interviews that he DOESN'T consider himself disabled. So he can bin that idea for this particular case RIGHT now (when it suits him!)
Insp.Dots
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I think if he does go down that route he will lose the respect and support of the final few million people who he preached to about wanting to be treated as a normal athlete. That's another very sad part to this case IMO all those kids and amputees that looked up to him and believed in him. They must feel SO let down. There is a good documentary somewhere that shows his rise from adversity, his determination, conquering the world, to then change into some kind of arrogant, superior person that thinks he is above the law. Some one said, he was made by South Africa, maybe their allowance and turning a blind eye, because of who he was is partly responsible for the man he is today!
Lessons to be learnt, that's for sure.
seattlechiquita
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BRAVA!!! Indeed, our "friend" is notorious for living dangerously ---fast cars, fast legs, fast boats... and has never wanted to be defined by being disabled (he pushed to compete in the body-able Olympics!) so he cannot now claim to be a defenseless amputee. Puh-leaze.
steveml
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I want more now
But I know if I subscribe, the rest of the article will probably read
...to save Reeva. :tantrum:
Gryffindor
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I want more now
But I know if I subscribe, the rest of the article will probably read
...to save Reeva. :tantrum:
LMAO! Pahaha! Brilliant! Indeed! Properly LOLed there :-D x
It was shortly after 3am on February 14 when Oscar Pistorius called his close female friend and asked her to come to his home immediately. He was frantic. Something had gone horribly wrong. There had been a shooting.
Also a resident of the upmarket SilverWoods housing estate, where she lives with her parents, the 20-something dressed and made her way there as quickly as she could. As she opened the front door of number 286, at exactly 3.20am on Valentine's morning, she saw Pistorius carry his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp down the stairs, her body drenched in blood.
Pistorius placed his girlfriend's body on the floor and between him and the woman (who cannot be named for legal reasons) they tried to stop the profuse bleeding. But they couldn't.
The woman, a lawyer, and Pistorius did everything they could. But by then the 29- year-old was pumping blood and her slender body was limp as all life continued to drain from it. When the paramedics arrived a short while later, Pistorius and the woman stepped aside. Steenkamp was pronounced dead shortly after that.
The woman then asked her father to call for an ambulance. It is not clear if the neighbours, who alerted the security guards and police to the gunshots they heard just after 3am, had also called for an ambulance to come.
Pistorius was in a state of delirium, panic and shock as the woman tried to console him. It was all a mistake, he continued to tell her. He hadn't meant to do it. He thought Steenkamp was an intruder. That's why he shot her. He was crying. He was shaking. He was beyond consolation.
The police arrived. Steenkamp was dead. Pistorius's life was about to change forever. And number 286, until then the plush home of the well-loved and world-famous double-amputee athlete, was turned into a crime scene.
What is recounted above is what the woman relayed to the police on the morning of February 14 in a sworn statement. She joined the line-up of witnesses, along with neighbours who live next to and near number 286, members of the security company that operate SilverWoods gated housing estate and the paramedics who attended to Steenkamp at Pistorius's home.
Unlike the others, perhaps, the woman who was first on the scene is on Pistorius's side and appears to believe him. And, for now, she is the star witness for the defence.
The neighbours have already recounted to the police their recollection of the shouting and screaming they heard coming from 286 on February 13 and in the early hours of the 14th, which, on a first reading, makes a mockery of the blade-runner's claims that he mistook his girlfriend for an intruder and shot her in a tragic case of self-defence.
The security guards who were called to the house on the evening of the 13th to tell the occupant and his guest that neighbours were concerned about the commotion that was going on inside will also weaken Pistorius's claims that he shot Steenkamp by mistake in the middle of the night when he thought someone was trying to enter his fortified house.
Furthermore, the security company that controls SilverWoods has already given the police the CCTV footage that captured Steenkamp's time of arrival. She drove through the heavily guarded gates of SilverWoods on February 13 and not in the early hours of the 14th. Her remains were removed a day later.
Is there more to the Pistorius-Steenkamp tragedy than has met the public eye so far?
Apparently not. It has been noted from records and from statements taken from her family that the witness was awoken in the night by a call from Pistorius in what has turned out to be a desperate plea for help.
The only occupants of 286 throughout the night of the 13th and until the woman's arrival at 3.20am on the 14th were Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp.
The state has charged him with premeditated murder, a charge that he has denied, in the strongest possible terms, in a statement he made via his family (and, oddly, not through his legal team) shortly after the court adjourned on Friday afternoon.
The state appears confident and seems to be sitting on strong evidence: a dead body; the weapon; the man who fired the shots; the neighbours; the security company; the CCTV footage.
There is a twist, however.
In stating – to the woman friend and to the police – that he thought Steenkamp was an intruder, Pistorius is not necessarily suggesting or implying that his girlfriend did not arrive at his home on the 13th and spend the night there. He has told police that he was awoken during the night by a noise that appeared to be emanating from the bathroom. He reached out for his 9mm pistol that he keeps by his bed and a short while later fired the fatal shots through the bathroom door.
What is not clear is whether or not he told the police that in his state of slumber, he forgot that his girlfriend had stayed the night at his home and that her movements in the house during the night were mistaken for those of an intruder and regrettably triggered the fatal scene that followed. This still raises questions, however.
Her body took four bullets – some if not all of them through the bathroom door. He says he reached for his pistol and before firing the first shot, shouted out to the "intruder" that he was about to shoot. If that is the case, would Steenkamp not have shouted back words to the effect: "It's OK. It's just me, Reeva. I got up to use the bathroom."Perhaps she didn't hear him make the warning call.
Even still, surely she would have screamed out after the first shot was fired, appealing to him to stop, assuring him she wasn't the intruding threat he thought she may have been.
Or perhaps it did not happen like that at all. Perhaps it was a lovers' quarrel in the middle of the night that went horribly wrong.
The woman who arrived on the scene summoned by the phone call does not believe so. Apparently, she is very much on his side.
Also a resident of the upmarket SilverWoods housing estate, where she lives with her parents, the 20-something dressed and made her way there as quickly as she could. As she opened the front door of number 286, at exactly 3.20am on Valentine's morning, she saw Pistorius carry his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp down the stairs, her body drenched in blood.
Pistorius placed his girlfriend's body on the floor and between him and the woman (who cannot be named for legal reasons) they tried to stop the profuse bleeding. But they couldn't.
The woman, a lawyer, and Pistorius did everything they could. But by then the 29- year-old was pumping blood and her slender body was limp as all life continued to drain from it. When the paramedics arrived a short while later, Pistorius and the woman stepped aside. Steenkamp was pronounced dead shortly after that.
The woman then asked her father to call for an ambulance. It is not clear if the neighbours, who alerted the security guards and police to the gunshots they heard just after 3am, had also called for an ambulance to come.
Pistorius was in a state of delirium, panic and shock as the woman tried to console him. It was all a mistake, he continued to tell her. He hadn't meant to do it. He thought Steenkamp was an intruder. That's why he shot her. He was crying. He was shaking. He was beyond consolation.
The police arrived. Steenkamp was dead. Pistorius's life was about to change forever. And number 286, until then the plush home of the well-loved and world-famous double-amputee athlete, was turned into a crime scene.
What is recounted above is what the woman relayed to the police on the morning of February 14 in a sworn statement. She joined the line-up of witnesses, along with neighbours who live next to and near number 286, members of the security company that operate SilverWoods gated housing estate and the paramedics who attended to Steenkamp at Pistorius's home.
Unlike the others, perhaps, the woman who was first on the scene is on Pistorius's side and appears to believe him. And, for now, she is the star witness for the defence.
The neighbours have already recounted to the police their recollection of the shouting and screaming they heard coming from 286 on February 13 and in the early hours of the 14th, which, on a first reading, makes a mockery of the blade-runner's claims that he mistook his girlfriend for an intruder and shot her in a tragic case of self-defence.
The security guards who were called to the house on the evening of the 13th to tell the occupant and his guest that neighbours were concerned about the commotion that was going on inside will also weaken Pistorius's claims that he shot Steenkamp by mistake in the middle of the night when he thought someone was trying to enter his fortified house.
Furthermore, the security company that controls SilverWoods has already given the police the CCTV footage that captured Steenkamp's time of arrival. She drove through the heavily guarded gates of SilverWoods on February 13 and not in the early hours of the 14th. Her remains were removed a day later.
Is there more to the Pistorius-Steenkamp tragedy than has met the public eye so far?
Apparently not. It has been noted from records and from statements taken from her family that the witness was awoken in the night by a call from Pistorius in what has turned out to be a desperate plea for help.
The only occupants of 286 throughout the night of the 13th and until the woman's arrival at 3.20am on the 14th were Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp.
The state has charged him with premeditated murder, a charge that he has denied, in the strongest possible terms, in a statement he made via his family (and, oddly, not through his legal team) shortly after the court adjourned on Friday afternoon.
The state appears confident and seems to be sitting on strong evidence: a dead body; the weapon; the man who fired the shots; the neighbours; the security company; the CCTV footage.
There is a twist, however.
In stating – to the woman friend and to the police – that he thought Steenkamp was an intruder, Pistorius is not necessarily suggesting or implying that his girlfriend did not arrive at his home on the 13th and spend the night there. He has told police that he was awoken during the night by a noise that appeared to be emanating from the bathroom. He reached out for his 9mm pistol that he keeps by his bed and a short while later fired the fatal shots through the bathroom door.
What is not clear is whether or not he told the police that in his state of slumber, he forgot that his girlfriend had stayed the night at his home and that her movements in the house during the night were mistaken for those of an intruder and regrettably triggered the fatal scene that followed. This still raises questions, however.
Her body took four bullets – some if not all of them through the bathroom door. He says he reached for his pistol and before firing the first shot, shouted out to the "intruder" that he was about to shoot. If that is the case, would Steenkamp not have shouted back words to the effect: "It's OK. It's just me, Reeva. I got up to use the bathroom."Perhaps she didn't hear him make the warning call.
Even still, surely she would have screamed out after the first shot was fired, appealing to him to stop, assuring him she wasn't the intruding threat he thought she may have been.
Or perhaps it did not happen like that at all. Perhaps it was a lovers' quarrel in the middle of the night that went horribly wrong.
The woman who arrived on the scene summoned by the phone call does not believe so. Apparently, she is very much on his side.
Gryffindor
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Thank you for posting that James :-D
At ease, Steve ;-) hee hee
At ease, Steve ;-) hee hee
I thought Johan Stander's daughter's name was 'Carice' .. I'm confused now, by the name 'Audrey' .. does that mean that two daughters were there on the scene with Johan?
Didn't want to use her real name, which is interesting considering she isn't mentioned in Oscars affidavit?.
So they are one of the same person? .. even more confused now! :scared:
Gryffindor
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I take it Clarice (Audrey) will defo appear on the stand for the defence then? Obvs.
What time did Baba say he got to Oscar's house at? As he was there seconds before the Standers.
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