Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[weeeva]

Lol, you missed the point of that post, he said he whispered, then he said he didn't say he said he whispered.

I don't think I missed the point, not really. It reminds me of an old song.
"Little did she know that I know that she knows that I know she's two timing me"

That would get anyone confused.

 

[asanque]

Assuming for one moment that the gunshots were at 3 a.m. and the cricket bat at 3:17 a.m. (meaning no screams).

My view is that OP would still be liable for culpable homicide:
(a) had reasonable alternatives;
(b) moved towards danger; and
(c) no one believes his gun 'accidentally' discharged '4' times (meaning intent to shoot).

So we are only talking about the difference between culpable homicide and murder.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

"The man I heard on the phone is a different man from the image given out there," Batchelor said to The Saturday Star newspaper of South Africa in November 2012. "He carries a gun everywhere and I have seen him be controlling to women."

http://www.sportsonearth.com/articl...al-tastes-will-be-on-display-during-his-trial

... found on my search for "black eye" and date - and my search goes on ...

 

[Giles]

It is impolite to delete or even substantially modify the post that you are replying to without good reason, and that reason should be noted in your reply.

What you are saying about new witnesses hearing OP scream and scream like a girl is nothing new or earth shattering. It is just other people that heard the end of this nightmare but missed the beginning and the middle. Thankfully we have 5 other witnesses that heard the whole event.

I apologize. It was only my second post on the board and I did not know how to quote asanque's post. In my edit, I simply added their name at the top of my post so they knew it was addressed to them.

 

[minor4th]

There were 2 documentaries about the Dewani's. I can't remember if they were both by Panorama. The first documentary was centred on Dewani being guilty, the other being innocent. Both programmes were excellent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZSc--n2PgQ

 

[asanque]

Gosh, I don't know. It seems unlikely, but they certainly seemed fairly inept. I'm sure the Defence are going to tear into them dreadfully. I can't understand why the police would start randomly moving things around when they arrived on the scene.

Although, it was pointed out to me that if Oscar mentioned he thought there was an intruder, the police might have automatically checked the upstairs to see if there was someone hiding there. This might explain moving the fans to get to the balcony, checking behind the curtains, on the balcony, even under the duvet... Who knows? I certainly don't.

I do think there are lot's of holes in the Prosecutions case however. When the gun shots were fired, not having the prosthetics on whilst breaking down the door etc.

I'm not sure I understand.

Oscar thought there was an 'intruder' and then shot the 'intruder'.

Why would the police do any further searching?

I would have thought the time to 'tear into the police' would have been during the Defence's cross-examination of the various prosecution experts (including the photographer).

Will the Defence get another chance? What kind of witnesses could they call to prove someone tampered with the crime scene?

 

[Viper]

I think the "wood moving" would be explained by him as Reeva maybe stepping back and knocking the magazine rack which scraped along the tile.

OP explained that his hearing the wood moving was directly linked to the door being poorly fitted so it made a noise when it was opened or closed; so he heard that "familiar wood sound" and believed that the door was in fact being opened by Mr. Armed Intruder, and that is why/when he fired, and fired, and fired, and fired again "accidentally." But of course OP really could not have heard that familiar sound because the door was locked. Shaking my head!

 

[DebinGA]

OP explained that his hearing the wood moving was directly linked to the door being poorly fitted so it made a noise when it was opened or closed; so he heard that "familiar wood sound" and believed that the door was in fact being opened by Mr. Armed Intruder, and that is why/when he fired, and fired, and fired, and fired again "accidentally." But of course OP really could not have heard that familiar sound because the door was locked. Shaking my head!

OP claims to hear "wood moving" at the same time he claims he was shouting, yelling, screaming various things. If his terror at the sound of the window opening was real, he'd have approached the bathroom silently, listening intently, up until the moment he pulled the trigger.

 

[shane13]

BIB - i don't think that is correct. OP was allowed back into his house when all of his bail conditions were overturned in March last year.



You can read the article here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/28/oscar-pistorius-athletics-bail-conditions

Oscar's bail conditions were overturned last June IIRC.
I think when Roux Qed him, he said "I haven't been back since the shooting'--even though he could if he wanted.
Assuming this is true...

if true, what does that mean re the 1 or 2 witnesses who said they heard a man screamng in a high pitched voice, was it in early March?

I would have assumed that was OP.
But must not have been if he said he hadn't been back to his house.

Unless the DT is dropping the screams "like a woman" matter.

 

[Giles]

I'm not sure I understand.

Oscar thought there was an 'intruder' and then shot the 'intruder'.

Why would the police do any further searching?

I would have thought the time to 'tear into the police' would have been during the Defence's cross-examination of the various prosecution experts (including the photographer).

Will the Defence get another chance? What kind of witnesses could they call to prove someone tampered with the crime scene?

Well, I am not an expert in law or legal proceedings, but the Prosecution declined to call Detective Hilton Botha, because they thought it could be damning to their case. Is it possible for the Defence to call him as a witness?

The further searching could be standard proceedure... It's just a thought!

 

[Freya1977]

OP explained that his hearing the wood moving was directly linked to the door being poorly fitted so it made a noise when it was opened or closed; so he heard that "familiar wood sound" and believed that the door was in fact being opened by Mr. Armed Intruder, and that is why/when he fired, and fired, and fired, and fired again "accidentally." But of course OP really could not have heard that familiar sound because the door was locked. Shaking my head!

Yes I know, but i mean if challenged as to what was the sound he heard, because it obviously wasn't the door....He might say that. The first thing I thought of when he said wood moving was the magazine rack.

If we did believe his story, that could account for such a sound.

 

[shane13]

OP explained that his hearing the wood moving was directly linked to the door being poorly fitted so it made a noise when it was opened or closed; so he heard that "familiar wood sound" and believed that the door was in fact being opened by Mr. Armed Intruder, and that is why/when he fired, and fired, and fired, and fired again "accidentally." But of course OP really could not have heard that familiar sound because the door was locked. Shaking my head!

Well I went back and relistened to the video.
I believe he actually did not simply say "I heard the wood move."
In Oscar-speak, he said "I thought I heard the wood move.' [just before firing]

 

[DebinGA]

Well, I am not an expert in law or legal proceedings, but the Prosecution declined to call Detective Hilton Botha, because they thought it could be damning to their case. Is it possible for the Defence to call him as a witness?

The further searching could be standard proceedure... It's just a thought!

Botha arrested OP in 2009 for assault in the incident where he angrily removed his former gf and another woman from his house, slamming the door with such force that broken pieces flew out and injured her leg. After his arrest, OP sued her, she then sued him, and several weeks ago he withdrew his suit and entered into settlement negotiations with her. Botha's testimony might be very helpful.

 

[Really?]

Oy, my brain is still recovering from drinks last night.....all I can say is my good mr. Nel has has a weekend to think of ways to make the killer trip up once again (lol)....I will be fresh and new back in new jersey for tomorrows court. Oh, wth? Are we on a holidaybreakin the trial now or what?

 

[Britlaws]

Originally Posted by Zinn
"If Reeva had come out or spoken to me, I wouldn't have fired."

Well, according to you Mr Pistorius, the 'wood sound' was the sound of the door opening and so she was coming out and that's why you did in fact fire....you can't have it both ways.

Sounds more like "if she just did as I told her......" I think the quote above from him was him slipping up, big time.

 

[Really?]

Well I went back and relistened to the video.
I believe he actually did not simply say "I heard the wood move."
In Oscar-speak, he said "I thought I heard the wood move.' [just before firing]

LOL @ Oscar speak. There are way too many if I think I may have accidentally remembered what may have really happened but accidentally said something that could incriminate me than the answer m'Lady is I I can't recall.

 

[asanque]

Well, I am not an expert in law or legal proceedings, but the Prosecution declined to call Detective Hilton Botha, because they thought it could be damning to their case. Is it possible for the Defence to call him as a witness?

The further searching could be standard proceedure... It's just a thought!

I think they could if they were desperate.

He would be a hostile witness though and that is a double edged sword.

Most barristers are reluctant to call anyone without knowing at least roughly what they will say.

 

[shane13]

Oy, my brain is still recovering from drinks last night.....all I can say is my good mr. Nel has has a weekend to think of ways to make the killer trip up once again (lol)....I will be fresh and new back in new jersey for tomorrows court. Oh, wth? Are we on a holidaybreakin the trial now or what?

Maybe you better leave Ethyl alone?
And drink a lot of water. (But not too much.)

I think there is Oscar Court tmow, unless I am mistaken?

Nel actually seems very likeable.
Will he continue to let Oscar slide a bit?
Or is the end nigh, and the bulldog will show full ferocity?

 

[asanque]

Botha arrested OP in 2009 for assault in the incident where he angrily removed his former gf and another woman from his house, slamming the door with such force that broken pieces flew out and injured her leg. After his arrest, OP sued her, she then sued him, and several weeks ago he withdrew his suit and entered into settlement negotiations with her. Botha's testimony might be very helpful.

From my memory, Van Staden (the photographer) took the shots prior to Botha's arrival.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

LOL @ Oscar speak. There are way too many if I think I may have accidentally remembered what may have really happened but accidentally said something that could incriminate me than the answer m'Lady is I I can't recall.

:tantrum:lol