TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL

[wnk]

re: Tammy's health

"They’re going to talk about their mother’s use of various medical treatments she would use—oils she would put on her leg, medicine, and different herbs she would take, and that their mother was suffering from a number of maladies, and she would refuse to see a doctor,” defense attorney John Prior told Ada County Court jurors in his Wednesday opening statements.

Doomsday Author’s Wife Faced ‘Health Struggle’ Before Death, His Lawyers Say

Three or four of Chad Daybell’s kids are expected to testify in his death penalty case, his defense lawyer revealed on Wednesday.

www.thedailybeast.com

A county coroner, Brenda Dye, who also testified on Friday said she found Tammy Daybell dead at her house. Dye told prosecutors that Chad Daybell said that Tammy Daybell "had been feeling really off lately – like she wasn’t in her body," East Idaho News reported. Dye testified that Chad Daybell said Tammy Daybell had been having some fainting episodes including one at a temple where she passed out on the floor. Chad Daybell said Tammy Daybell had very low blood pressure and wouldn’t go to the doctors, Dye testified, adding that Chad Daybell told her that Tammy Daybell tried to treat everything naturally.

Idaho accused child killer Lori Vallow Daybell created immediate suspicions, dead victim's sister testifies

"Please tell me about this woman you replaced my sister with," a dead victim's sister recalls asking Chad Daybell why he married Lori Vallow Daybell.

www.usatoday.com

IMO: Tammy Daybell was 49 years old. I think you'd be very hard-pressed to find any 49-year-old woman that didn't have some sort of physical health complaint--some ache or pain or annoyance or something they've been told to keep an eye on. Here in Utah, essential oils are HUGE; there's an essential oil for pretty much everything from stress to nausea to inflammation to insomnia.

IMO, I think that if the defense does put one of CD's children on the witness stand, they're going to regret it. The State attorneys seem very smart and on top of things; they're not going to have any trouble ripping apart the claims of pre-existing health issues.

 

[watergirl62]

Ugh. Whatever Chud. You don't die in bed while sleeping from a tendency for fainting and a preference for homeopathic remedies.

I have low blood pressure and bradycardia (heart rate in the low 50s). I think mine is primarily due to hypothyroidism but is exacerbated by Zumba/dance and other cardio. I have fainted more than once and need to be mindful to stand up slowly. It's manageable. That being said I still qualified for the best rate on a new life insurance policy with a thorough medical exam. I am def older than Tammy was when she was clearly and obviously murdered.

 

[Ruminations]

Re: HD
I think it is because CD despises her and he wants her to suffer for daring to oppose him. I think Prior will enjoy bullying her on the stand for the reason you mentioned previously, while Chad will be covertly loving every minute of it. This is a perfect example of how he has others do his dirty work.

On that note... After rewatching the preliminary hearing, I am looking forward to seeing MG testify. Would love to see her suggest to a Prior to adjust the microphone so she can hear him again! Judge Eddins kept requesting that JP do so repeatedly. Things were getting heated between JP and MG when she lobbed that zinger at him. Priceless!

I anticipate a contentious cross. JP will bully her too.

I just can't imagine what JP could bring HD to the stand for? What relevant question could he ask her? AFAIK, she knows nothing direct about his crimes- and nothing about any alibis or anything to dispute the charges.

I can't figure out how he even had a pretext to put her on the witness list.

The prosecution might have a little direct info they could get from her- for example I believe she did know to be afraid of Alex Cox because Chad seemed her dark.

Actually, as I type I suppose I Could have answered my own question. Maybe John Prior will try to get her to testify that LE told her to beware of Alex Cox, not Chad Daybell. But that will backfire, IMO. The prosecution is not going to have a heavy lift to show cooperation and common criminal goals between Alex and Chad. Chad had control over Lori and Alex. (Not in the sense that they are not also criminally responsible.)

That little attempt to suggest Alex was trying to shoot Chad is bringing the defense there, IMO.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

re: Tammy's health

"They’re going to talk about their mother’s use of various medical treatments she would use—oils she would put on her leg, medicine, and different herbs she would take, and that their mother was suffering from a number of maladies, and she would refuse to see a doctor,” defense attorney John Prior told Ada County Court jurors in his Wednesday opening statements.

Doomsday Author’s Wife Faced ‘Health Struggle’ Before Death, His Lawyers Say

Three or four of Chad Daybell’s kids are expected to testify in his death penalty case, his defense lawyer revealed on Wednesday.

www.thedailybeast.com

A county coroner, Brenda Dye, who also testified on Friday said she found Tammy Daybell dead at her house. Dye told prosecutors that Chad Daybell said that Tammy Daybell "had been feeling really off lately – like she wasn’t in her body," East Idaho News reported. Dye testified that Chad Daybell said Tammy Daybell had been having some fainting episodes including one at a temple where she passed out on the floor. Chad Daybell said Tammy Daybell had very low blood pressure and wouldn’t go to the doctors, Dye testified, adding that Chad Daybell told her that Tammy Daybell tried to treat everything naturally.

Idaho accused child killer Lori Vallow Daybell created immediate suspicions, dead victim's sister testifies

"Please tell me about this woman you replaced my sister with," a dead victim's sister recalls asking Chad Daybell why he married Lori Vallow Daybell.

www.usatoday.com

IMO: Tammy Daybell was 49 years old. I think you'd be very hard-pressed to find any 49-year-old woman that didn't have some sort of physical health complaint--some ache or pain or annoyance or something they've been told to keep an eye on. Here in Utah, essential oils are HUGE; there's an essential oil for pretty much everything from stress to nausea to inflammation to insomnia.

IMO, I think that if the defense does put one of CD's children on the witness stand, they're going to regret it. The State attorneys seem very smart and on top of things; they're not going to have any trouble ripping apart the claims of pre-existing health issues.

I am putting my money on Prior is bluffing about putting on the kids. I can't see them helping the case much, after cross examination.

Prior, as he frequently does, has already testified for them. His MO is testify for the witnesses.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

I just can't imagine what JP could bring HD to the stand for? What relevant question could he ask her? AFAIK, she knows nothing direct about his crimes- and nothing about any alibis or anything to dispute the charges.

I can't figure out how he even had a pretext to put her on the witness list.

The prosecution might have a little direct info they could get from her- for example I believe she did know to be afraid of Alex Cox because Chad seemed her dark.

Actually, as I type I suppose I Could have answered my own question. Maybe John Prior will try to get her to testify that LE told her to beware of Alex Cox, not Chad Daybell. But that will backfire, IMO. The prosecution is not going to have a heavy lift to show cooperation and common criminal goals between Alex and Chad. Chad had control over Lori and Alex. (Not in the sense that they are not also criminally responsible.)

That little attempt to suggest Alex was trying to shoot Chad is bringing the defense there, IMO.

MOO

I think JP might insinuate that HD had a vendetta against Chad for some imaginary reason, or he wants her to testify that Chad was never publicly reprimanded by the Church (until his excommunication) despite her complaints, so he must have been ok.

 

[indicolite22]

If Chad's children believe he is innocent, how do they view his excommunication? Did the Church make a mistake? If he got off (I don't think he will), would his status be reinstated?

 

[Ruminations]

I think JP might insinuate that HD had a vendetta against Chad for some imaginary reason, or he wants her to testify that Chad was never publicly reprimanded by the church (until his excommunication) despite her complaints, so he must have been ok.

But--- that is not directly related to murders and insurance fraud. There is a loose connection, but he could present himself as a prophet, or teach multiple probations etc., against Church policy, without committing any of the crimes he is charged with.

AFAIK, nobody "gets" Chad character better than HD. But her portrait isn't flattering. And I don't think she is at all a direct murder/fraud witness.

MOO

 

[mickey2942]

I am putting my money on Prior is bluffing about putting on the kids. I can't see them helping the case much, after cross examination.

Prior, as he frequently does, has already testified for them. His MO is testify for the witnesses.

MOO

Interesting plan. Because it keeps anyone JP doesn't want in the peanut gallery, out of the courtroom. And no one that CD does not want to face on a daily basis.

So, JP can make innuendos, suppositions, ad nauseum. CD can just sit there like a mildly disinterested bystander, and not have to have anyone in court on a daily basis that he doesn't want to deal with.

 

[mickey2942]

If Chad's children believe he is innocent, how do they view his excommunication? Did the Church make a mistake? If he got off (I don't think he will), would his status be reinstated?

I have no doubt that if they believe in their father, he has filled their head with nonsense that he is being persecuted, same as Joseph Smith was considered a con man and heathen by the mob in Nauvoo, IL who killed him.

CD no doubt compares himself to being, "Christ like", and going through persecution. By the nonbelievers. That is powerful logic. Twisted, but common with religious carnies.

 

[wnk]

Trying to compile a list of what I believe will be the most damning evidence against CD. Did I miss anything?

• texts to LVD containing his dark/light ratings, "death percentages," trust levels, and demons possessing children & Tammy
• the Harry Potter text: "Every few weeks I get to escape and have amazing adventures with my Goddess lover, but then I have to return to my place under the stairs, feeling trapped. But I sense permanent freedom is coming! ????"
• increasing Tammy's life insurance policy a month before her death
• the raccoon text on the day Tylee's body was buried
• Tylee's DNA evidence on the tools from his shed
• the bruises on Tammy's body and cause of death as asphyxiation
• the text the morning after Tammy's death saying that he was "feeling sad, but it isn't for the reason everyone thinks"
• the phone call with LVD the day that the kids' bodies were discovered

 

[indicolite22]

But--- that is not directly related to murders and insurance fraud. There is a loose connection, but he could present himself as a prophet, or teach multiple probations etc., against Church policy, without committing any of the crimes he is charged with.

AFAIK, nobody "gets" Chad character better than HD. But her portrait isn't flattering. And I don't think she is at all a direct murder/fraud witness.

MOO

I think the prosecution will try to tie Chad's doctrine to the murders. He provided the justification/motivation for people like Alex (for Lori too, but she also had her own motivation). JP will try to portray Chad as a good Mormon who had occasional "premonitions" but couldn't possibly twist/use the religion for nefarious purposes.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I think prosecution can give evidence to support a theory as to who did what to whom when...when they have it.

But if they don't have such specific evidence to present, they obviously can't present it.

For example, they can present evidence that Alex Cox attempted to shoot Tammy Daybell at a certain time. But, in contrast, they can not present evidence that anyone in particular did a particular thing to Tylee causing her death at a particular time (unless they have evidence not yet presented).

still, the prosecution can and has convicted on murder for Tylee based on the evidence that is available.

I think the murderers appear to have some skill in cleaning a crime scene. (Again, unless there is evidence with which we are not aware.) Duct tape is sticky. I'm just guessing, based on my day to day life, but it seems rather unlikely that there would be so few hairs on JJ's remains if they were handled casually, even given the time that passed, being that evidence stuck in tape is pretty well protected from the elements.

(This is an amateur analysis- more knowledgeable peoplle, please correct and/or expand.)

I think their use of burner phones was a bit sloppy- "Hi, this is me on my burner phone. Just send me a "speak no evil" emoji on my regular phone and I'll call you back from this one." But the sheer number of phones and email addresses deserves a dishonorable mention. If they had just kept the numbers separate and didn't call old numbers for friends with new numbers, it would have worked better.

I also think their arrogance and lack of shame bought them time. Lori, especially, never seemed nervous or guilty.

May they all come to understand the damage they have done and suffer greatly for the rest of their lives.

MOO

We don’t know yet what the prosecutor might have on Chad. But circumstantial evidence proves conspiracy. I believe Alex and Lori together committed two other murders that cannot be prosecuted for lack of evidence, or lack of investigation. the first being their sister back in Texas and the second being Joe Ryan, her third husband. They knew how to cover up. Alex and Chad killed and dismembered Tylee together I believe, because they thought she was the more evil one. But Prior will make Chad sound like a dumb old country boy who knew nothing. Just look into his eyes. that tells you everything about the psychotic nature of that dumb old country boy and the jurors are looking at him every day.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Does anyone know exactly when Chad told Garth to come home from college, because of bad spirits there, or something similar? I am wondering how long Garth had been back living with his parents - is it possible that Chad deliberately got him home to be a witness to Tammy's death? It sure wouldn't surprise me.

Thats what i said and believe.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Or, did Lori call him? She asked, I think (no link, though, so IMO only), whether "they" (LE) were searching inside his home. He responded that they were searching the property outside of his home. At some point, he began to "flee". That's when they chased him down and stopped him -- I'm sure he was traveling at a rate of speed of 25 mph or less.

I believe the tape of the phone call will be played and we will see exactly what was said.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Just a point of clarification, it was Lori that called Chad that morning. Thankfully she called at the perfect time and you can hear the concern in their voices as they carefully choose their words, knowing they are being recorded.

Link to the audio:

Thank you for this. It sounds to me like he is saying “they are searching….for the kids”.
This was after Lori said “the house?’ and he said ‘No, the property, they…are searching…for the kids”. His voice is so muffled and it is hard to make it out. I believe i got these words at one time from Nate Eaton. I tried to play it again but i swear i cannot make it out. I apologize if i am wrong.

 

[Ruminations]

I think the prosecution will try to tie Chad's doctrine to the murders. He provided the justification/motivation for people like Alex (Lori too, but she also had her own motivation). JP will try to portray Chad as a good Mormon who had occasional "premonitions" but couldn't possibly twist/use the religion for nefarious purposes.

Could be. But Prior put HD on the witness list, not the prosecution, I believe. (Anybody know what prompted that opinion?) If that were her role, she'd be called by the prosecutor.

Also, before the cases were even severed, John Dehlin (spelling?) of Mormon Stories said Prior approached him as a potential expert witness in the case for the defense. I have to imagine that his role would be to say that Chad's dribble had a basis in deep theology, even though the typical LDS church/temple goer, even HD when she was very devout, would say it's apostasy. (John Dehlin said no thanks.)

It doesn't mean your theory or mine is wrong... we could both be wrong; or we could both be right. If we are both right, Prior's strategy changed from "blame it on the church," to "blame it on the real murderers and apostates.

Moo

 

[Love Never Fails]

Um huh? Not sure what this means but in case there is any confusion my name is Tricia Griffith and I am the manager of Websleuths.com.
I have been catching up on this thread. You all are great at making sense of this case. Thank you for making Websleuths.com the go to place especially in high profile cases like Chad Daybell's.

Tricia, i think when the poster said “Co-counsel for the defense?” She was suggesting that attorney who filed the motion wanted to inject himself into the trial by helping Prior?

It has come out since, it had to do with cameras in the courtroom. In any case, it likely won’t be heard until after the trial so it is a moot point.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Is there any possibility that CD walks away free from this?

Not a chance.

 

[Boxer]

Ugly

So, after the kids were murdered and buried and the storage locker was rented, but before Tammy was killed.

Ugly. Talk about dark spirits.

 

[Boxer]

There was nothing wrong with her that losing Chad Daybell wouldn’t have cured. It’s infuriating.

Exactly.