TRIAL - Ross Harris #1

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

The body is that of a Caucasian male child whose general appearance is consistent with the stated chronological age of 22 months.

The body measurements are as follows:
Crown-heel length: 33"
Crown-rump length: 14"
Rump-heel length: 17-1/2"
Head circumference: 19-1/2"
Chest circumference: 18"
Abdominal circumference: 18"
Shoulder-rump length: 11"
Back of neck-rump length: 10-1/2"
Crown-shoulder length: 8"
Shoulder-heel length: 23-1/2"
Back of head-heel length: 26"
Body weight: 21 pounds, 5.4 ounces pg 6/8 http://media.wix.com/ugd/943520_7cd46570b4a9474b9e36c87173e7a14d.pdf

Again, these are NOT my numbers/figures or theory. Comes from the Autopsy Report. I do not agree or disagree, just going by the document signed by the ME on 6/29/14

BBM

17 + 14 does not equal 33. They're missing a couple of inches somewhere.

Crown to shoulder to rump = 8 + 11 = 19, which is in line with the 33 full length.

Crown to shoulder to heel = 8 + 23 = 31, not 33, so missing a couple of inches there, too.

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[minor4th]

I failed my first driving test because I didn't turn around once when I did my reverse around a corner. The examiner said I could have run a small child over because I didn't check all angles before and during the manouvere. I am now in the habit of looking everywhere when I reverse my car. RH didn't have parking sensors. He said he didn't see Cooper when he parked so he must have parked by using his mirrors only. I think he would have seen the baby if he had turned around.

I also failed a driving test for backing up without looking behind me over my shoulder

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I also failed a driving test for backing up without looking behind me over my shoulder

Looking behind you is what they teach in drivers ed, not the mirror method. I would think since it's taught in drivers ed it would be the more common method.

https://driversed.com/driving-information/driving-techniques/backing-up.aspx

http://www.driversedguru.com/drivers-ed-training-exercises/stage-2/stage-2-backing-up/

http://www.aarp.org/home-family/get...our-steps-to-back-up-your-vehicle-safely.html

http://teenslearntodrive.com/learn-to-drive-backing-up-reversing/

Which, of course, still doesn't help us with how RH backed up, except that one method may be more common.



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[eileenhawkeye]

If I understood correctly 1 time as a url and clicked on 4 items and this was done April 2014.

Per this witness, he created a report "child free" but did not include in his report that RH never did a "search" for "child free". Going to go back over the testimony, to see if I understood correctly. JMHO

And that is considered compelling evidence by the state that he killed Cooper on purpose?!

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I have been following this case since the beginning. It's hard to miss. Not only is it a webslueth headliner, but it got an unprecedented amount of press coverage, out of the many of Hot Car deaths we see every year...

So what makes one a murder suspect as opposed to a parent who made a deadly "mistake"? I can see nothing substantial, that makes this seem like an evil plot to murder this child, as opposed to a deadly error, made by a selfish, preoccupied person, who forgot about what should have been the most important thing on his mind, that day.

Personally, I don't think these people had some sort of master plan for ridding themselves of the burden of parenthood. I think the guy was a Jack@ss who forgot his kid in the car. LE didn't like his attitude, mannerisms, behaviors... or whatever.... so RH is being charged with murder, instead of getting sympathy, or a wrist slap like most of these cases...

We had a death in our family last week. I found myself noticing at both the Wake and the Funeral service, how many different modes of behavior there were among the mourners... Some were balling their eyes out, some were smiling, some seemed stiff, an unemotional, some were drunk, some were angry and some were acting as if it were just a day like any other...

As for myself, I was unable to actually acknowledge my loss, I felt very much the same as I had when he was ill and away from us, in hospital. It was a few days later, in the grocery store, that it sunk in, and grief came harshly and unexpectedly, in such a benign setting! I hate how harshly we human beings judge one another, people we don't know a thing about, but all of sudden we get fed info that makes us feel we are somehow qualified to declare another person a monster, by the way, (we are led to believe?), they live, grieve, or behave...

I'm not prepared to make any judgment on these parents. I don't feel there is any overwhelming evidence that they are brutal murderers. This whole case has a witch-hunt feel to it imo... In any case, it's a terribly sad reflection on human-kind.

So very true about people's behaviors at a funeral.

I agree with you that it seems like there is a witch hunt here.

Ross was charged with murder the same day that Cooper died. How did LE even know about all their evidence at that point? My theory is that they charged him with murder becacause they were angry at another parent leaving their child in a hot car. Maybe they thought his behavior was "off" that day. After the charges hit the news, there was a lot of outrage about LE charging a parent for murder for what many thought was an accident. So LE pretty much had to find anything that would support their view that he killed Cooper on purpose to get the public off their back.

 

[GA_Peach]

I have been following this case since the beginning. It's hard to miss. Not only is it a webslueth headliner, but it got an unprecedented amount of press coverage, out of the many of Hot Car deaths we see every year...

So what makes one a murder suspect as opposed to a parent who made a deadly "mistake"? I can see nothing substantial, that makes this seem like an evil plot to murder this child, as opposed to a deadly error, made by a selfish, preoccupied person, who forgot about what should have been the most important thing on his mind, that day.

Personally, I don't think these people had some sort of master plan for ridding themselves of the burden of parenthood. I think the guy was a Jack@ss who forgot his kid in the car. LE didn't like his attitude, mannerisms, behaviors... or whatever.... so RH is being charged with murder, instead of getting sympathy, or a wrist slap like most of these cases...

We had a death in our family last week. I found myself noticing at both the Wake and the Funeral service, how many different modes of behavior there were among the mourners... Some were balling their eyes out, some were smiling, some seemed stiff, an unemotional, some were drunk, some were angry and some were acting as if it were just a day like any other...

As for myself, I was unable to actually acknowledge my loss, I felt very much the same as I had when he was ill and away from us, in hospital. It was a few days later, in the grocery store, that it sunk in, and grief came harshly and unexpectedly, in such a benign setting! I hate how harshly we human beings judge one another, people we don't know a thing about, but all of sudden we get fed info that makes us feel we are somehow qualified to declare another person a monster, by the way, (we are led to believe?), they live, grieve, or behave...

I'm not prepared to make any judgment on these parents. I don't feel there is any overwhelming evidence that they are brutal murderers. This whole case has a witch-hunt feel to it imo... In any case, it's a terribly sad reflection on human-kind.

BBM

First, I am sorry to hear about the death in your family.

I don't think that Ross should simply be given a slap on the wrist because he failed to care for his child. Ross's preoccupation, a conscious decision that he willingly made and that impaired his ability to protect his child, caused his child's death. Under Georgia law, I believe that Ross's actions show that he acted with criminal negligence and as a result should be found guilty of felony murder.

I don't think that LE's investigation and testimony have been fully kosher, but that does not change what Ross did. Remember, Ross is the defendant in this case. If LE acted inappropriately, there is a time and a place to address that.

 

[Hope4More]

Hi Dave! What the heck about all the glitching going on. Reply buttons, bring kicked off mid-reply. What's up and will it be better soon?

 

[cricket49]

I have been following this case since the beginning. It's hard to miss. Not only is it a webslueth headliner, but it got an unprecedented amount of press coverage, out of the many of Hot Car deaths we see every year...

So what makes one a murder suspect as opposed to a parent who made a deadly "mistake"? I can see nothing substantial, that makes this seem like an evil plot to murder this child, as opposed to a deadly error, made by a selfish, preoccupied person, who forgot about what should have been the most important thing on his mind, that day.

Personally, I don't think these people had some sort of master plan for ridding themselves of the burden of parenthood. I think the guy was a Jack@ss who forgot his kid in the car. LE didn't like his attitude, mannerisms, behaviors... or whatever.... so RH is being charged with murder, instead of getting sympathy, or a wrist slap like most of these cases...

We had a death in our family last week. I found myself noticing at both the Wake and the Funeral service, how many different modes of behavior there were among the mourners... Some were balling their eyes out, some were smiling, some seemed stiff, an unemotional, some were drunk, some were angry and some were acting as if it were just a day like any other...

As for myself, I was unable to actually acknowledge my loss, I felt very much the same as I had when he was ill and away from us, in hospital. It was a few days later, in the grocery store, that it sunk in, and grief came harshly and unexpectedly, in such a benign setting! I hate how harshly we human beings judge one another, people we don't know a thing about, but all of sudden we get fed info that makes us feel we are somehow qualified to declare another person a monster, by the way, (we are led to believe?), they live, grieve, or behave...

I'm not prepared to make any judgment on these parents. I don't feel there is any overwhelming evidence that they are brutal murderers. This whole case has a witch-hunt feel to it imo... In any case, it's a terribly sad reflection on human-kind.

:goodpost:

Yes, a witch hunt.

I watched a show recently where the husband was accused of killing his wife. During the interrogation tape the husband was unemotional and the police zeroed in on him immediately. He did not act normal according to the detectives. As the segment continued they found the "real" killer who was not the husband. Thank goodness there was enough evidence to find the real killer so this innocent man was not sent to prison.

I know many men who are highly intelligent and analytical and they are emotionally unavailable. They are wired differently than most people and do not react normally when presented with a horrible tragedy. They grieve alone in their own way. Yes, they come across stoic and weird but that does not make them guilty.

This case is so emotional because an innocent child died when the tragedy could have been prevented. Every year we hear about babies dying in hot cars during the summer. It is amazing that there are still parents out there that forget their child in a car seat that result in the death of the child. Many parents state they would never do that but yet each year it continues.

 

[Hope4More]

BBM

I don't think that Ross should simply be given a slap on the wrist because he failed to care for his child. Ross's preoccupation, a conscious decision that he willingly made and that impaired his ability to protect for his child, caused his child's death. Under Georgia law, I believe that Ross's actions show that he acted with criminal negligence and as a result should be found guilty of felony murder.

I don't think that LE's investigation and testimony has been fully kosher, but that does not change what Ross did. Remember, Ross is the defendant in this case. If LE acted inappropriately, there is a time and a place to address that.

The first time and place for it is in this trial, and appropriately so. LE witnesses are testifying, and the defense is entitled to impeach the heck out them for every single thing they say under oath about every single contact and exchange they had with RH and witnesses, and for every single aspect of their investigation.

Fair game, and central to RH's defense.

As for slap on the wrist. Leaving aside the steep price RH has already paid beyond a slap on the wrist, IMO there is no inevitability the jury will make the requisite finding that he acted with "willful, reckless or wanton disregard" in order to convict on 2nd degree child cruelty. Even if they find him guilty of that, there is no inevitability they will also convict him of felony murder. Separate charge, separate vote.

Right now (subject to change) IMO a just verdict would be guilty of 2nd degree child cruelty, and not guilty on all other charges, including felony murder predicated on 2nd degree child cruelty.

 

[minor4th]

If I understood correctly 1 time as a url and clicked on 4 items and this was done April 2014.

Per this witness, he created a report "child free" but did not include in his report that RH never did a "search" for "child free". Going to go back over the testimony, to see if I understood correctly. JMHO

He visited that site one time, approx. 2 months before Cooper's death

 

[GA_Peach]

The first time and place for it is in this trial, and appropriately so. LE witnesses are testifying, and the defense is entitled to impeach the heck out them for every single thing they say under oath about every single contact and exchange they had with RH and witnesses, and for every single aspect of their investigation.

Fair game, and central to RH's defense.

As for slap on the wrist. Leaving aside the steep price RH has already paid beyond a slap on the wrist, IMO there is no inevitability the jury will make the requisite finding that he acted with "willful, reckless or wanton disregard" in order to convict on 2nd degree child cruelty. Even if they find him guilty of that, there is no inevitability they will also convict him of felony murder. Separate charge, separate vote.

Right now (subject to change) IMO a just verdict would be guilty of 2nd degree child cruelty, and not guilty on all other charges, including felony murder predicated on 2nd degree child cruelty.

Trial is an appropriate avenue, but based on all of the witch hunt talk, one would believe there was no evidence of anything. Ross was responsible for Cooper's death. That has been stipulated. While I have not seen any evidence of malice murder, I don't believe that these charges were trumped up out of thin air.

 

[turaj]

On the day Cooper died? So he also forgot to buy food for the teachers, and then forgot to take Cooper and the food to daycare? And the daycare people didn't think it was odd that he said he would be in and bring food and then didn't show up?

I got the impression that type of call happened sometimes...but I did not hear that he called due to being late on the morning of the murder...am I wrong...if he did all the more strange. I think they brought up his usual behavior to show that on this morning he did not do that.

 

[turaj]

the younger defense atty (don't know name offhand) is doing a masterful job of making Stoddard look absolutely bad and negligent. Stoddard is a veteran and as I listen to this testimony it is clear it was time for him to retire. This is painful and making me feel like I am back watching OJ.

 

[turaj]

Trial is an appropriate avenue, but based on all of the witch hunt talk, one would believe there was no evidence of anything. Ross was responsible for Cooper's death. That has been stipulated. While I have not seen any evidence of malice murder, I don't believe that these charges were trumped up out of thin air.

Agree clearly not out of "thin air" but the state sure has some work to do here. I guess the person he was talking to on the phone will be very important in terms of sealing his preoccupation but I don't so far see malice...do I think he is totally guilty...I do but if I were on that jury so far would not be impressed with state's case.

 

[Hope4More]

He visited that site one time, approx. 2 months before Cooper's death

Went once, read 4 miscellaneous posts on the forum, none relating to children or marriage, etc., left, never returned to the site, didn't try to erase his digital tracks (here, there, anywhere), and did not , over the next 2 months, do any searches relating in any way whatsoever to killing his way clear to that "child free" existence LE claims was his intent.

 

[Doghairrules]

Yeager says he found Ross Harris has accessed Reddit five times using the term "childfree" on his work computer.

Yeager says Harris specifically typed into the browser reddit.com/r/childfree. The other four times were just things he clicked on in connection with that initial search.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/ross-harr...the-ross-harris-hot-car-death-trial/457089519

So I just typed that in to see what was there. I don't know what the posts were when RH pulled it up, but it seems pretty innocuous to me. The posts I see are from people venting about others not believing they don't want kids, someone using a neighbor as a babysitter so they can take a nap, a bride complaining that folks keep asking if they can bring their children to the wedding. I don't see any connection to looking at this and what happened to cooper. Jmo and I'm still very much on the fence about accident or murder, but there seem to be a lot of red herrings from the prosecution.


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[PaperDoll]

I have been following this case since the beginning. It's hard to miss. Not only is it a webslueth headliner, but it got an unprecedented amount of press coverage, out of the many of Hot Car deaths we see every year...

So what makes one a murder suspect as opposed to a parent who made a deadly "mistake"? I can see nothing substantial, that makes this seem like an evil plot to murder this child, as opposed to a deadly error, made by a selfish, preoccupied person, who forgot about what should have been the most important thing on his mind, that day.

Personally, I don't think these people had some sort of master plan for ridding themselves of the burden of parenthood. I think the guy was a Jack@ss who forgot his kid in the car. LE didn't like his attitude, mannerisms, behaviors... or whatever.... so RH is being charged with murder, instead of getting sympathy, or a wrist slap like most of these cases...

We had a death in our family last week. I found myself noticing at both the Wake and the Funeral service, how many different modes of behavior there were among the mourners... Some were balling their eyes out, some were smiling, some seemed stiff, an unemotional, some were drunk, some were angry and some were acting as if it were just a day like any other...

As for myself, I was unable to actually acknowledge my loss, I felt very much the same as I had when he was ill and away from us, in hospital. It was a few days later, in the grocery store, that it sunk in, and grief came harshly and unexpectedly, in such a benign setting! I hate how harshly we human beings judge one another, people we don't know a thing about, but all of sudden we get fed info that makes us feel we are somehow qualified to declare another person a monster, by the way, (we are led to believe?), they live, grieve, or behave...

I'm not prepared to make any judgment on these parents. I don't feel there is any overwhelming evidence that they are brutal murderers. This whole case has a witch-hunt feel to it imo... In any case, it's a terribly sad reflection on human-kind.

To me it depends on who died in a family. I would grieve a lot more over mymom/dad/brothers/sister/child than I would a cousin, grandparent, aunt or uncle. A parent, IMO, I would think would grievemore over the death of their child than they would a cousin or grandparent oreven a sibling. This is MOO!

All these other car deaths have they been tried and foundnot guilty? We do get some cases thatget publicized more than others for some reason or another, doesn’t mean theother cases got a slap on the wrist. :thinking:

 

[turaj]

as I listen to Stoddard I wonder what the jury is going to do with his testimony...just throw it out? I mean it has been shredded down to no value at all.

 

[turaj]

sounds like def. has someone who powered up a computer and "maniuplated evidence".

 

[Hope4More]

Trial is an appropriate avenue, but based on all of the witch hunt talk, one would believe there was no evidence of anything. Ross was responsible for Cooper's death. That has been stipulated. While I have not seen any evidence of malice murder, I don't believe that these charges were trumped up out of thin air.

IMO, even though I think LE handled the initial scene quite poorly, I believe LE's actions, and even suspicions, were at least within bounds at the scene, and during their initial interviews with Leanne and RH.

I also don't fault them for finding RH's extra marital activity hinky, given that his child ended up dead, and stranger things have happened.

As LE investigated though, and found no evidence to support their suspicions of intent, they had choices to make. I very much fault them for deciding to go forward with malice murder charges AFTER they knew how weak to non existent their case was, and for all the very dubious actions they seem to have taken to make their weak case look stronger.

I'm beginning to think that one of the reasons the DA didn't pursue the DP was a keen awareness a RH conviction on malice murder would never have survived the close scrutiny of a DP appellate process.