Trial - Ross Harris #2

[Seriously?]

This is true. I can't imagine what condition I would be in after learning my child died because of my (in)actions. Of course I can't know for sure, but I really, really, really don't think I could handle a run-of-the-mill conversation with strangers. I would be hyper-focused on my own little family and my deep, unbearable remorse. Strangers in a jail cell won't even exist, let alone be someone to chat with.

Then again, he does like to chat.

jmo

I've been following the case since this little boy died, although likely not as much as many of the posters here. I have read a great deal, watched many videos and watched most of the trial broadcast last week and this week.

Much earlier in these threads, a poster commented on the death of her daughter and hospital staff having to physically take the child's body from her arms. My heart goes out to her still.........and, similar events happen much more often that most people realize.

My experience in the area of child trauma and work with parents and families gives me some insight into parental/caregiver responses to the traumatic death of a child, not only at the time of the child's death, but also in the months to follow. Child traumatic death is much different than anticipated death from a life-threatening illness or disability, etc. With this preamble, the video of RH in the cruiser is enough to cause most people with experience in this area to see a red flag or two. The jail booking video of his behavior seems to show the same level of detachment. We see the same casual affect. I am not saying this is a reason to label him a felon. I am saying this is a huge piece of the puzzle to consider.
Now.........the old "everyone grieves differently" is often used to rationalize the behavior of someone whose behavior is outside the norm, and sometimes that behavior isn't grief.
The death of this little boy is horrendous, as everyone here knows. The state of his body alone kind of tells the tale of his death experience. He suffered horribly. Given the recent information regarding car deaths, the parents likely had an idea of what his death entailed. I cannot align RH's response with a loving attachment. I'm assuming the defense requested a psychological/diagnostic evaluation, which will be interesting. Regardless, my opinion........on this particular day he took parental responsibility for his son's safety when he strapped him in that carseat and pulled away from home.

Going back to lurkdome

 

[arkansasmimi]

How long is this trial suppose to take? Thanks

When first started I heard say 6 weeks, but then there was 4 days missed due to the hurricane. And a half day due to scheduling. Judge asked Boring one day this week how they were doing on pace. He said on pace but had a feeling it would slow down soon Judge kinda laughed said she didn't doubt (paraphrasing on Judge reply)

 

[Hope4More]

Kilgore destroyed the State's narrative about Meadows as motive, imo, and impeached her for good measure. I don't think the jury is going to find her either sympathetic or credible.

He was very delicate indeed about broaching her "medical condition," but he did get her to say that her condition ("is it fair to say?") involved her mental health. She looked pissed from there on out, enough for K to ask- "are you mad at me?"

He did that on purpose, imo, as a subtle but effective way of raising a red flag about her credibility for the jury. He used the texts in the same way, having her read exchange after exchange during which she accuses RH of not caring about her and not responding to her, and of him replying with immediate reassurances along the lines of-- yes of course I care! Even with those frequent reassurances, she regularly cut him off with no warning. Maybe he tried hard to reach her during those times because he was concerned about her well being?

Along this line of allowing Meadows to impeach herself rather than him going after her (for obvious reasons), he put on his most empathetic face and asked- is it fair to say you texted frequently, not necessarily every day, but regularly?

The look on her face, the tight lipped response- "it WAS every day." Oops. No it wasn't, even during the periods when she hadn't shut him out.

Her statements about the BF she remained with throughout and their new puppy were just plain bizarre. That she had to stay with her BF because if she didn't he might kill the puppy. Ross tells her to leave imo because it seems likely her BF who she was scared to "make mad and who owed her $1,000 for drugs was one scary dude. She doesn't leave.

And then the defense blows up the State's Romeo and Juliet as fairytale motive altogether. When they text on June 13, the first time since May 28 (when Leanne was out of town or would soon be), he doesn't even know whether or not she's still eith the BF, if she's working....anything about what's going on in her life.

Interesting for lots of reasons (no slow mo running towards each other in a sunlit meadow motive), in part for their lack of even minimal contact during the precise time RH is living it up with a prostitute and sexting like crazy because Leanna is out of town. Hmm.

Poor Meadows couldn't answer that one very well, but was truly at a loss about how to wriggle out of the fact she had told LE- yep, LE, that Ross had told her he and Leanne had been (making real progress) over the previous couple of months. Oops.

 

[magnolia]

I'm in the bible belt (GA, specifically) and have heard such phrases at funerals as "he's in a better place/I wouldn't bring him back"... in regards to an aged person, or a person suffering a painful, incurable, deadly disease.

I think it's an odd thing to say about a healthy young child who suddenly died. JMO!

Respectfully, I'm giving actual examples of what I have witnessed and discussed with close loved ones, and what I'm saying is 'simply not the case"? :waitasec:

So the religious and non religious people who have actually told me that was how they felt, and why they felt that way...were lying? Iwas lying when I felt that way? Surely you can respect that your opinion on who uses those phrases and why and how they use them might not be universal.

I didn't mean to imply you or your loved ones are/were lying. Sorry, that my comment came across that way. :loser:

BBM -- However, in regards to the phrase, you did make a distinction between aged people,etc. and a young healthy child.You find it fitting for the aged but find it odd for a young child. My experience attending funerals tells me it is not odd that someone used this phrase at a young child's funeral. IMO

Edited to add: In regards to Leanna >>>On the last trial thread, Tricia asked that Peeps stay focused on RH's trial.

 

[blue22]

Kilgore destroyed the State's narrative about Meadows as motive, imo, and impeached her for good measure. I don't think the jury is going to find her either sympathetic or credible.

He was very delicate indeed about broaching her "medical condition," but he did get her to say that her condition ("is it fair to say?") involved her mental health. She looked pissed from there on out, enough for K to ask- "are you mad at me?"

He did that on purpose, imo, as a subtle but effective way of raising a red flag about her credibility for the jury. He used the texts in the same way, having her read exchange after exchange during which she accuses RH of not caring about her and not responding to her, and of him replying with immediate reassurances along the lines of-- yes of course I care! Even with those frequent reassurances, she regularly cut him off with no warning. Maybe he tried hard to reach her during those times because he was concerned about her well being?

Along this line of allowing Meadows to impeach herself rather than him going after her (for obvious reasons), he put on his most empathetic face and asked- is it fair to say you texted frequently, not necessarily every day, but regularly?

The look on her face, the tight lipped response- "it WAS every day." Oops. No it wasn't, even during the periods when she hadn't shut him out.

Her statements about the BF she remained with throughout and their new puppy were just plain bizarre. That she had to stay with her BF because if she didn't he might kill the puppy. Ross tells her to leave imo because it seems likely her BF who she was scared to "make mad and who owed her $1,000 for drugs was one scary dude. She doesn't leave.

And then the defense blows up the State's Romeo and Juliet as fairytale motive altogether. When they text on June 13, the first time since May 28 (when Leanne was out of town or would soon be), he doesn't even know whether or not she's still eith the BF, if she's working....anything about what's going on in her life. PooMeadows couldn't answer that one very well, but was truly at a loss about how to wriggle out of the fact she had told LE- yep, LE, that Ross had told her he and Leanne had been (making real progress) over the previous couple of months. Oops.

bbm

Please tell me you aren't suggesting a witness isn't credible if they've had mental health issues.

 

[arkansasmimi]

This is the video of J Meadows starting on Direct Testimony, you can tell she is tiffed. Totally different than with the Def, testimony with the State makes it sound completely different than when we heard all the texts. Under State it like it was RH like she was not wanting to speak with him. Watch her tone and demeanor then vs Def. She normally called him on his work phone(iPhone 4s) and if called on his personal phone she blocked the number (iPhone 5s) continues on Part 5

[video=youtube;ojeEub-Om9o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojeEub-Om9o[/video]

 

[MsMarple]

]Kilgore destroyed the State's narrative about Meadows as motive, imo, and impeached her for good measure.[/B] I don't think the jury is going to find her either sympathetic or credible.

He was very delicate indeed about broaching her "medical condition," but he did get her to say that her condition ("is it fair to say?") involved her mental health. She looked pissed from there on out, enough for K to ask- "are you mad at me?"

He did that on purpose, imo, as a subtle but effective way of raising a red flag about her credibility for the jury. He used the texts in the same way, having her read exchange after exchange during which she accuses RH of not caring about her and not responding to her, and of him replying with immediate reassurances along the lines of-- yes of course I care! Even with those frequent reassurances, she regularly cut him off with no warning. Maybe he tried hard to reach her during those times because he was concerned about her well being?.

RSBM
RBBM

That's disgusting behavior on Kilgore's part.

 

[Hope4More]

Respectfully, some of us actually understand her faith and still find it odd that she volunteered the information, unasked, at his funeral, that she wouldn't bring him back.



Why not just leave it at "I miss him with all my heart."? Still aligns with her faith, yes?

What many found more odd was this section, where she mentions how happy she is her dead son won't experience, well.....life:



http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/06/30/georgia-toddler-hot-car-cooper-harris-leanna-funeral

Respectfully, there is no right or wrong here. There are some who understand her religion, and still find the words of the mother odd, even in context of her religion. That's all!

Point taken. Here's one for you. Would you have found those words just as odd if LE had not made it clear she was under suspicion, through misrepresentations about her responses and their lie, frankly, that she as well as Ross had researched children and hot car deaths?

I recently reread some of the media coverage from his arrest through the funeral, and it was brutal, inflammatory, and unbearable, frankly. I actually stopped paying attention to this case for a very long time because it pained me to see the lynch mob setting to on that woman, based solely on raw suspicion and LE's untrue assertions she had been indifferent to the loss of her baby.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Kilgore destroyed the State's narrative about Meadows as motive, imo, and impeached her for good measure. I don't think the jury is going to find her either sympathetic or credible.

He was very delicate indeed about broaching her "medical condition," but he did get her to say that her condition ("is it fair to say?") involved her mental health. She looked pissed from there on out, enough for K to ask- "are you mad at me?"

He did that on purpose, imo, as a subtle but effective way of raising a red flag about her credibility for the jury. He used the texts in the same way, having her read exchange after exchange during which she accuses RH of not caring about her and not responding to her, and of him replying with immediate reassurances along the lines of-- yes of course I care! Even with those frequent reassurances, she regularly cut him off with no warning. Maybe he tried hard to reach her during those times because he was concerned about her well being?

Along this line of allowing Meadows to impeach herself rather than him going after her (for obvious reasons), he put on his most empathetic face and asked- is it fair to say you texted frequently, not necessarily every day, but regularly?

The look on her face, the tight lipped response- "it WAS every day." Oops. No it wasn't, even during the periods when she hadn't shut him out.

Her statements about the BF she remained with throughout and their new puppy were just plain bizarre. That she had to stay with her BF because if she didn't he might kill the puppy. Ross tells her to leave imo because it seems likely her BF who she was scared to "make mad and who owed her $1,000 for drugs was one scary dude. She doesn't leave.

And then the defense blows up the State's Romeo and Juliet as fairytale motive altogether. When they text on June 13, the first time since May 28 (when Leanne was out of town or would soon be), he doesn't even know whether or not she's still eith the BF, if she's working....anything about what's going on in her life.

Interesting for lots of reasons (no slow mo running towards each other in a sunlit meadow motive), in part for their lack of even minimal contact during the precise time RH is living it up with a prostitute and sexting like crazy because Leanna is out of town. Hmm.

Poor Meadows couldn't answer that one very well, but was truly at a loss about how to wriggle out of the fact she had told LE- yep, LE, that Ross had told her he and Leanne had been (making real progress) over the previous couple of months. Oops.

Agree, just finished with Direct and going into first Cross. She was spurned for sure. And she called on both phones. State asked her at the end (after she put in her ss of a text message from 2013) if there should be stuff on his phone, unless it was deleted, she said yes. BUT she even testified of her phone being off. So yes, how did he call her every day? Then her own text messages reflect that he hasn't called her. At one point she wiped under her eye, not sure if an itch or a tear.

Kilgore handled this Cross very well jmho

 

[Hope4More]

RSBM
RBBM

That's disgusting behavior on Kilgore's part.

That's one opinion. One I don't share. She isn't a reluctant witness, unlike the sexting young ladies the State pulled in. She has been very cooperative with the State from the very beginning, in July 2014. Why is that? She just testified (reluctantly, under cross) that Ross loved Cooper and would never deliberately harm him, so it's not about that.

What I see is a woman who exaggerated her importance to RH (including to herself), and who apparently had a pattern of punishing him when she felt he wasn't there for her. I also see the necessity for the defense to correct the impression left that RH was obsessed with her (goes to motive, the heart of the thing). IMO it's very likely RH worried about her well being, especially when she'd do the pull the plug thing, which again imo, was manipulative as all get out.

Her motivation for being willing to be one of the State's star witnesses, and the dynamics of their "relationship" are absolutely fair game, and Kilgore's impeaching of her was a work of art, IMO.

 

[PaperDoll]

Both Leanne & Cooper deserved better than RH. As much as RH professed to love Cooper & if his death was an accident why was'nt he more distraught in the jail holding pen & in the back of the patrol car? I can't make sense of the lack of an emotional response to the death of "his little buddy".

I couldn’t agree with you more… If I loved someone like Ross professed he did Cooper, and my loved one died, I would show a lot of sorrow,not just outbursts here and there. In fact I don’t think I would ever do a outburst, I would simply cry and feel overwhelmed with sorrow. I wouldn’t need to display to the world outburst of my emotions, to me that signals DRAMA, well at least in Ross’s case. I felt he was acting when he displayed his outburst in the parking lot and in police car.

 

[DisneyFan]

Disturbing that many of our youth still do not realize that their digital footprint can and will follow them. To think my huge crime in the 1960's was one day of skipping school. Seems so tame now doesn't it? I was shaking in my shoes when I was caught. Imagine the witnesses in this trial. I just can't, understand how one can be so reckless with a stranger on the internet.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I wonder if Stoddard was also in the meeting with Murphy on 7/17/14. Or he misspoke? He asked who was in that meeting with Stoddard, I mean Murphy, who else was with you, she said no one. :thinking: Wonder if it was another another strategic moment? Will have to make note to remember to take note.

 

[turaj]

Why wouldn't this be a possible motive? I think they are showing that he had other strong interests besides being a family man. And he fell in love with a beautiful young woman who said she loved him too. Seems like ' LOVE' is a prime motive for a married man to try and shake off any family responsibilities and try and be single again.

I think this Jaynie Meadows is probably the best witness the state has had. Yes I think this one was different...I mean look at her and look at him...he probably could not believe this girl was interested in him (just being honest). But she was drifting away ...yes she would return but they drift again and I think Ross thought his plot as the ultimate escape from his life...then after a bit of rough patch where he would get sympathy from everyone he would continue with this beautiful girl and go on his way. I don't think anyone can rule it out. Did you see his demeanor change when she came in the courtroom? I think it was pretty intense with those 2 and Leanna probably found out. Not sure you can prove anything here and not sure where t his leaves the jury but this girl was different.

 

[arkansasmimi]

She shakes her head gently looking towards the State Attorneys (Kilgore is reading) and she mouthed "please stop" start at 20:00 mark

[video=youtube;-w4C-hv7s6E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w4C-hv7s6E[/video]

 

[MsMarple]

That's one opinion. One I don't share. She isn't a reluctant witness, unlike the sexting young ladies the State pulled in. She has been very cooperative with the State from the very beginning, in July 2014. Why is that? She just testified (reluctantly, under cross) that Ross loved Cooper and would never deliberately harm him, so it's not about that.

What I see is a woman who exaggerated her importance to RH (including to herself), and who apparently had a pattern of punishing him when she felt he wasn't there for her. I also see the necessity for the defense to correct the impression left that RH was obsessed with her (goes to motive, the heart of the thing). IMO it's very likely RH worried about her well being, especially when she'd do the pull the plug thing, which again imo, was manipulative as all get out.

Her motivation for being willing to be one of the State's star witnesses, and the dynamics of their "relationship" are absolutely fair game, and Kilgore's impeaching of her was a work of art, IMO.

I was referring to Kilgore trying to discredit her testimony by asking her about her mental illness.

He was very delicate indeed about broaching her "medical condition," but he did get her to say that her condition ("is it fair to say?") involved her mental health. She looked pissed from there on out, enough for K to ask- "are you mad at me?"

He did that on purpose, imo, as a subtle but effective way of raising a red flag about her credibility for the jury.

I said nothing about the dynamics of her relationship with Ross or about the rest of her testimony. Kilgore attempting a "gotcha" with this witness based on her mental health in order to discredit her testimony - i.e., show that she's a liar - is what bothers me.

 

[blue22]

I was referring to Kilgore trying to discredit her testimony by asking her about her mental illness.



I said nothing about the dynamics of her relationship with Ross or about the rest of her testimony. Kilgore attempting a "gotcha" with this witness based on her mental health in order to discredit her testimony - i.e., show that she's a liar - is what bothers me.

I agree with you, completely.

Between this and his display with a witness yesterday, my respect for Kilgore (which was plentiful) is seriously dwindling.

 

[arkansasmimi]

That's one opinion. One I don't share. She isn't a reluctant witness, unlike the sexting young ladies the State pulled in. She has been very cooperative with the State from the very beginning, in July 2014. Why is that? She just testified (reluctantly, under cross) that Ross loved Cooper and would never deliberately harm him, so it's not about that.

What I see is a woman who exaggerated her importance to RH (including to herself), and who apparently had a pattern of punishing him when she felt he wasn't there for her. I also see the necessity for the defense to correct the impression left that RH was obsessed with her (goes to motive, the heart of the thing). IMO it's very likely RH worried about her well being, especially when she'd do the pull the plug thing, which again imo, was manipulative as all get out.

Her motivation for being willing to be one of the State's star witnesses, and the dynamics of their "relationship" are absolutely fair game, and Kilgore's impeaching of her was a work of art, IMO.

lol she hadn't talk to RH from May 30 -June 13th! RH asks about Austin... Kilgore: If yall had been talking every day he would know if yall were still together. Later in convo RH asks if they are still together. .. :facepalm:

 

[Hatfield]

I think this Jaynie Meadows is probably the best witness the state has had. Yes I think this one was different...I mean look at her and look at him...he probably could not believe this girl was interested in him (just being honest). But she was drifting away ...yes she would return but they drift again and I think Ross thought his plot as the ultimate escape from his life...then after a bit of rough patch where he would get sympathy from everyone he would continue with this beautiful girl and go on his way. I don't think anyone can rule it out. Did you see his demeanor change when she came in the courtroom? I think it was pretty intense with those 2 and Leanna probably found out. Not sure you can prove anything here and not sure where t his leaves the jury but this girl was different.

I agree.

I havent followed this case too closely but from what I gather this reminds me of Susan Smith case if it turns out his motive was to shake family responsibilities of being a dad.

I can only guess that when he would have discussions with these other girls that more than once they probably mentioned something about him being a "father of a child" and it was said with a negative connotation to him.
Along the lines of they could never be permanently involved with someone who was already a "father with a kid"
or something like that.

One thing I have never swayed from ever since the very beginning. I dont believe him at all that it was an accident. His demeanor to me gave him away. He showed no true caring or remorse from what I saw in the time immediately around his arrest.

 

[GA_Peach]

She shakes her head gently looking towards the State Attorneys (Kilgore is reading) and she mouthed "please stop" start at 20:00 mark

[video=youtube;-w4C-hv7s6E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w4C-hv7s6E[/video]

Do you have any context for this? What was going on, and what is the meaning behind this? I have not yet had the chance to watch her testimony.

I think this Jaynie Meadows is probably the best witness the state has had. Yes I think this one was different...I mean look at her and look at him...he probably could not believe this girl was interested in him (just being honest). But she was drifting away ...yes she would return but they drift again and I think Ross thought his plot as the ultimate escape from his life...then after a bit of rough patch where he would get sympathy from everyone he would continue with this beautiful girl and go on his way. I don't think anyone can rule it out. Did you see his demeanor change when she came in the courtroom? I think it was pretty intense with those 2 and Leanna probably found out. Not sure you can prove anything here and not sure where t his leaves the jury but this girl was different.

Did they ever sext or hookup, aside from one kiss?