Trial - Ross Harris #4

[just the facts pls]

I'm sorry, I could see needing to explain a few actions, searches, behaviors that SEEM strange...

But either this guy is the unluckiest, misunderstood sop in the world - or he's just guilty as sin. All of it together is just too much to explain away. I am calling it a DUCK.

Guy used his son like a chic magnet, great eye candy for the girls. A seemingly attentive and engaging father is like a moth to a flame for a ton of women. We gush when we see stuff like that, and RH didn't have any other game it seems. That was his only currency for women. He talked a big game about loving his child, but his actions and attention speaks otherwise.

He seems to (despite his best efforts) still be married to someone he doesn't want to be married to, if it wasn't for that little joker. Get rid of the Joker in an accident, maybe he thinks the wife will go away because she just can't face him, 2 problems solved with one action. He gets a slap on the wrist, turns into the loving but accidental father spokesperson, sprinkles his wisdom on the masses and garners sympathy sex from multitudes of strangers.

I totally buy every bit of that.

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Great post, and probably the most likely scenario. I've said myself that in order to believe JRH is not guilty, I would have to ignore the laws of physics, and apply a different standard to JRH than I would other suspects. Sometimes a duck is just a duck. Good analogy.

 

[justkk]

I agree, Cooper is not a door lock, a podium, a cell phone, or a briefcase. He was a little human being that depended on his father to get him into a dare care where he was safe.

I am also having trouble with the idea of auto-pilot since living two lives require you be cognizant of what is going on in each of them to keep them separate and keep your story straight. I imagine JRH would have to exercise a higher degree of alertness than if he were just a regular family man doing his usual thing.

On a side note, one of the most disturbing parts of the interview tapes (aside from when LH was in the room with him) was when JRH told detectives he looked in on Cooper playing with his toys and decided to let him "play a little longer." Not only did JRH know he was already running late for work, the tone of his voice when saying that sounded like he knew what he was going to do to Cooper. It's awful to think about.

You make a REALLY good point about the 2 lives and having to be hyper alert to making sure they don't collide!
I would actually argue that one would be LESS likely to go on auto pilot with *that* much extracurricular stuff going on! I know that the MORE stuff I have going on the more hyper aware I am.
Really great point.
JMO



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[Bc007]

Another flaw (IMO) which may or may not be brought up is that during his video interview Ross actually said there was no set routine as to who dropped Cooper off at daycare each day and who picked him up. I don't know what the expert will do with that or if he'll leave it out of his testimony but that info does make me wonder about Ross being on autopilot. I'm also very curious to see if the expert cites the texting/sexting as a distraction.

The auto pilot part as it pertains to FBS will most likely be introduced as the drive from CF directly to work without Cooper being it was a common or typical route it too often. It will be interesting to see if either side has reviewed enough data to see what the ratio to CF to work vs CF to daycare was. According to Diamond and FBS, it only takes a quick distraction, stress or fatigue, for you to you to have a brain break where auto pilot kicks in and your brain is able to do mindless tasks. The difference is most times there is something that makes you snap back to " reality " so to speak. I'm sure if you surveyed 10 people, atleast 5 would admit to stopping at a light or stop sign, looking both ways and thinking " wow I'm further in my drive than I realized" or something to that extent assuming it's a route driven frequently. I know I've done it....

 

[katydid23]

I often leave my house to go to work, and by the time I get to my garden gate I suddenly think "Did I lock the door?" I remember locking it - or at least I think I do. Or am I remembering locking it yesterday morning? Routine memories all tend to run together. So I have to go back and check. Sometimes more than once!

Other times I will be walking to work and will suddenly realise that I've walked past where I needed to be, or gone the wrong way. My brain goes into autopilot when I'm thinking about something else, and takes me along a different familiar route. I've even done this when taking a small pet to the vet in a box - whilst carrying the box in my arms, I've walked straight past the vet and had to double back when I realised. Whilst carrying the pet in my arms and worrying about them and thinking about the upcoming vet visit, I walked straight past the vet... I didn't forget about the pet, my brain just went into autopilot because I was too busy worrying to focus on how to get to my intended location.

I do tend to be an absent-minded sort of person when my mind is on other things, but there's nothing actually wrong with my memory and I don't think my experiences are rare. They might not happen to every person every day, but they're certainly not rare.

Is it possible Ross went into autopilot within 30 seconds, forgot to take his son to daycare and then assumed he had already taken him? Yes, from my own experiences I think it's definitely possible.

But in your examples, you wonder if you remembered or not, and then double checked. You double backed to the front door to see if you did lock or not, I assume.

With your pet, you walked past the vet's office, but then corrected the problem. Your pet didn't die in a hot car.

 

[pocketaccent]

While the site was down for maintenance, I had some time to reflect on some of the evidence. I re-listened to Ross describe his day to Detective Stoddard. Here are the things that Ross forgot that day:

1) To drop off Cooper at day care
2) To tell the detectives about his light bulb purchase and his subsequent trip to the car
3) To tell the detectives about his all of his extramarital texting on the day of Cooper's death

If the texting was completely irrelevant, why not mention it to detectives? Why not say that he was a bad husband but not a murderer? It's seems that the only things that Ross "forgot" are the things that are unbecoming to Ross or things that point to guilt/intent. I am really beginning to wonder about his selective memory.

ETA - Here are my thoughts on FBS with respect to this case. Ross had so many triggers by the time that he arrived at his office that I find it practically impossible to believe that Ross created a false memory. I am assuming that we can all agree that Ross did not think that Cooper was at day care when he was buckling Cooper into his car. Shortly after strapping Cooper into his car seat, Ross began his drive to work. As soon as Ross completes his U-turn, he should be staring at the HD's HQ, the site of LAA, as it is in front of him. Seeing Cooper's day care does not trigger Ross's memory that Cooper is in the car. A few seconds later Ross likely reaches the intersection where he responds to a woman who is complaining about feeling unappreciated in her role as spouse and mother. Despite giving the woman virtual hugs for her problem, Ross's mind still does not reboot. He then proceeds to arrive at work where he grabs the CFA cup, which he just got during his special Daddy/son date, and heads into the office. Once again, the CFA cup does not trigger his memory. While I believe in FBS as a general rule, I do not believe that it applies to this case. I am interested to hear Dr. Diamond's testimony.

BBM,

At this point if I was a juror, the fact that he lied (lying by omission) about the light bulb trip to the car is all I need to vote guilty on all counts. No way he just forgot about that trip to the car.

Instead I believe he saw or heard little Cooper suffering greatly. He chose not to discover him yet. He didn't want Cooper revived. He closed the door. This is like stabbing someone over and over. I'm getting so upset..

 

[Gardenista]

But in your examples, you wonder if you remembered or not, and then double checked. You double backed to the front door to see if you did lock or not, I assume.

With your pet, you walked past the vet's office, but then corrected the problem. Your pet didn't die in a hot car.

Yes, but there are people who have left their children in cars. Is there data that tells us how long it took for them to forget?

 

[katydid23]

Yes, but there are people who have left their children in cars. Is there data that tells us how long it took for them to forget?

I have read several cases and never seen one where the driver forgot when they buckled the child in 30 seconds away from the exit to the child care. Very hard to believe he could put him in the car seat, then 3o seconds later, he thinks he already dropped him off.

In the cases I read the drives were about 20minutes to an hour.

I know the defense says 'it only takes a second to forget.' And technically, that is true. But there has to be a span of time where the driver clicks into autopilot. And Ross had dropped his son off to childcare nearly every day. So why would he go on 'autopilot' in a span of 3o seconds, which is COUNTER to his regular drop off routine?

 

[monkeypants]

I often leave my house to go to work, and by the time I get to my garden gate I suddenly think "Did I lock the door?" I remember locking it - or at least I think I do. Or am I remembering locking it yesterday morning? Routine memories all tend to run together. So I have to go back and check. Sometimes more than once!

Other times I will be walking to work and will suddenly realise that I've walked past where I needed to be, or gone the wrong way. My brain goes into autopilot when I'm thinking about something else, and takes me along a different familiar route. I've even done this when taking a small pet to the vet in a box - whilst carrying the box in my arms, I've walked straight past the vet and had to double back when I realised. Whilst carrying the pet in my arms and worrying about them and thinking about the upcoming vet visit, I walked straight past the vet... I didn't forget about the pet, my brain just went into autopilot because I was too busy worrying to focus on how to get to my intended location.

I do tend to be an absent-minded sort of person when my mind is on other things, but there's nothing actually wrong with my memory and I don't think my experiences are rare. They might not happen to every person every day, but they're certainly not rare.

Is it possible Ross went into autopilot within 30 seconds, forgot to take his son to daycare and then assumed he had already taken him? Yes, from my own experiences I think it's definitely possible.

Do you have kids? Sooooo different than locking the door.

 

[Bc007]

You make a REALLY good point about the 2 lives and having to be hyper alert to making sure they don't collide!
I would actually argue that one would be LESS likely to go on auto pilot with *that* much extracurricular stuff going on! I know that the MORE stuff I have going on the more hyper aware I am.
Really great point.
JMO



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He wasn't with his wife so the double life thing doesn't fit to me. Not as far as aiding in any type of distraction. His son wasn't going to ask him who he was texting. He was free to text whomever and whatever he wanted. I think he was grossly distracted, tired and caught up. He seems to have an obsessive nature so it all add up to me. Unfortunately, the result was leaving his poor son in the car. I think he most likely lived his life oblivious in the first place so really, even the lightbulb car trip doesn't bother me. Maybe I know clueless or something but I'm just being honest. This is what I believe happened becuase I haven't been shown otherwise by the defense. Negligent probably. The seat debate, computer searches and really the women. etc etc... Not necessary. He was distracted, tired and texting. His is what hey should have stuck to when they realized their original evidence wasn't as bad as it was. Admit you were wrong but follow up with you still feel he is criminally guilty of neglegance. They have the string of text messages so we know he was doing more than one thing at a time ( context irrelevant to me) and he clearly lacks good judgement in other important areas of his life with out a care in the world... I mean prostitutes... Really???... Anyways I think they have him on neglegance and the texting to minor charge ....whatever the official verbiage is for that. I doubt the defense is trying to get him off. I'm sure all of them, including Ross, view anything that is a not quiltu of a murder charge, a win.

 

[katydid23]

O/T----if anyone wants to see an unbelievably explosive day in court, check out what happened today in the murder trial of Erin Corwin, the young pregnant wife of a marine....


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Palms-28-June-2014-14&p=12895798#post12895798




http://www.hidesertstar.com/news/article_ba139296-9c7f-11e6-8a09-87f222b08607.html

 

[Paulas88]

One of the things that bothers me the most (there's many) is when we observed JRH with LH. This is when we FINALLY see emotions and tears for the first time. He was crying for HIMSELF, because his freedom was in jeopardy. He never cried or showed emotion for dear Cooper.

I think he's a narcissistic/sociopath.

 

[JudyBolton]

BBM,

At this point if I was a juror, the fact that he lied (lying by omission) about the light bulb trip to the car is all I need to vote guilty on all counts. No way he just forgot about that trip to the car.

Instead I believe he saw or heard little Cooper suffering greatly. He chose not to discover him yet. He didn't want Cooper revived. He closed the door. This is like stabbing someone over and over. I'm getting so upset..

Yes and I add to that the tell-tale pause when he is recounting his actions that day during the interview. I can imagine he could not smoothly state he went straight into the office while in his mind he sees himself putting the lightbulbs in the car. If you re-watch the tape you will see what I mean.

 

[agentorange90]

He perjured himself on the stand in both those instances, and those were just the first two off the top of my head.

Dishonest, yes, but that isn't even what bothers me the most about him. What bothers me the most, and what I find frightening, is what he represents, that being the power of the State to decide, without any actual evidence, that someone is guilty of a crime as serious as murder, and then to pursue a conviction by any means necessary, with the justification that the ends justify the means.

Not in a democracy, they don't.

The DA and detective seem really shady to me. Almost similar to the case in Dekalb County who they tried to frame Andrea Sneiderman for murder. She may have been having an affair but didn't buy the murder charges they tried to bring up. The most compelling evidence I've seen against RH is the fact that he forgot his son in less than a few minutes from Chic-Fila to work. The sexting evidence seems like it would work in favor of the defense. RH seems like his life was a train wreck and he teetering on the edge; not really someone who was calculating a murder cover-up. It would appear the distractions could be evidence that he was simply negligent. They already showed that the detective perjured about the internet searches. The majority of their case if the character assessment of RH. If I am the jury I would want to see more evidence proving beyond a reasonable doubt he left his son in the car on purose. JMO.

 

[monkeypants]

I have read several cases and never seen one where the driver forgot when they buckled the child in 30 seconds away from the exit to the child care. Very hard to believe he could put him in the car seat, then 3o seconds later, he thinks he already dropped him off.

In the cases I read the drives were about 20minutes to an hour.

I know the defense says 'it only takes a second to forget.' And technically, that is true. But there has to be a span of time where the driver clicks into autopilot. And Ross had dropped his son off to childcare nearly every day. So why would he go on 'autopilot' in a span of 3o seconds, which is COUNTER to his regular drop off routine?

I have to say a kid whose blood sugar was just spiked by sausage and orange juice and happily saying "school" and seemingly excited to get there is seriously not going to just pass out instantly unless there is some severe medical issue. Maybe 15 or 20 minutes but a nanosecond is impossible. He had to be moving or talking or something.....

 

[katydid23]

The DA and detective seem really shady to me. Almost similar to the case in Dekalb County who they tried to frame Andrea Sneiderman for murder. She may have been having an affair but didn't buy the murder charges they tried to bring up. The most compelling evidence I've seen against RH is the fact that he forgot his son in less than a few minutes from Chic-Fila to work. The sexting evidence seems like it would work in favor of the defense. RH seems like his life was a train wreck and he teetering on the edge; not really someone who was calculating a murder cover-up. It would appear the distractions could be evidence that he was simply negligent. They already showed that the detective perjured about the internet searches. The majority of their case if the character assessment of RH. If I am the jury I would want to see more evidence proving beyond a reasonable doubt he left his son in the car on purose. JMO.

I don't think they were shady. I think they came to the scene of a very gruesome death of a young innocent toddler. And in the first few hours and days saw and heard things which may have led them to believe it was not accidental. Stoddard spent years in the Crimes Against Children Unit. He has seen a lot of evil and cruelty. I think he probably over charged this case. But I think he was looking for Justice for Cooper, but may have been ham handed and inept at times. JMO

 

[Hope4More]

I have read several cases and never seen one where the driver forgot when they buckled the child in 30 seconds away from the exit to the child care. Very hard to believe he could put him in the car seat, then 3o seconds later, he thinks he already dropped him off.

In the cases I read the drives were about 20minutes to an hour.

I know the defense says 'it only takes a second to forget.' And technically, that is true. But there has to be a span of time where the driver clicks into autopilot. And Ross had dropped his son off to childcare nearly every day. So why would he go on 'autopilot' in a span of 3o seconds, which is COUNTER to his regular drop off routine?

Because, as the defense is clearly going to argue, on most days RH went to breakfast at CFA, he had already dropped Cooper off at daycare. RH was tired that morning (moralizing about why doesn't change the fact of his sleep deprivation), and he was seemingly under stress (moralizing about why doesn't change the whys of that either), both prime components of FBS syndrome kicking in.

 

[agentorange90]

I just watched the security video of Ross going to the car at 12:30pm. It's really grainy, but he appears to walk right up to the car and toss in the bag; not pausing at all, and his head was above the car. So if he did intend to leave him there why would he not check for a minute to see if he was dead? Didn't the autopsy say he was most likely dead by 11am? So based on the prosecutors case I would expect he would check his state; realize he was dead; then alarm others and pull Cooper out. Why wouldn't this be a better plan by RH? I would also expect that people at work would notice that he was off that day, but they said he seemed normal. Another point I made - was there a psychological evaluation done on RH? It seems he would need to be a sociopath or biploar to do this and there would be some evidence of mental illness or the defense would bring in a witness to state this. The witnesses they brought in showed he is a sex addict, but I would expect other behaviors that show other types of mental issues(bi-polar or sociopath).

 

[GA_Peach]

Because, as the defense is clearly going to argue, on most days RH went to breakfast at CFA, he had already dropped Cooper off at daycare. RH was tired that morning (moralizing about why doesn't change the fact of his sleep deprivation), and he was seemingly under stress (moralizing about why doesn't change the whys of that either), both prime components of FBS syndrome kicking in.

My issue with that theory is that Ross did not go inside to eat on those days. In that way his CFA experience on June 18 was not exactly the same as when he went after dropping Cooper off at daycare.

 

[GA_Peach]

I just watched the security video of Ross going to the car at 12:30pm. It's really grainy, but he appears to walk right up to the car and toss in the bag; not pausing at all, and his head was above the car. So if he did intend to leave him there why would he not check for a minute to see if he was dead? Didn't the autopsy say he was most likely dead by 11am? So based on the prosecutors case I would expect he would check his state; realize he was dead; then alarm others and pull Cooper out. Why wouldn't this be a better plan by RH? I would also expect that people at work would notice that he was off that day, but they said he seemed normal. Another point I made - was there a psychological evaluation done on RH? It seems he would need to be a sociopath or biploar to do this and there would be some evidence of mental illness or the defense would bring in a witness to state this. The witnesses they brought in showed he is a sex addict, but I would expect other behaviors that show other types of mental issues(bi-polar or sociopath).

I do agree that I saw nothing that indicated Ross was on a scouting mission at lunch.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Another flaw (IMO) which may or may not be brought up is that during his video interview Ross actually said there was no set routine as to who dropped Cooper off at daycare each day and who picked him up. I don't know what the expert will do with that or if he'll leave it out of his testimony but that info does make me wonder about Ross being on autopilot. I'm also very curious to see if the expert cites the texting/sexting as a distraction.

Ross was not on autopilot from CFA to HD. He said in the interrogation room:

“I've never left him in the car. I’ve taken him to daycare a million times."

http://www.ajc.com/news/minute-minu...ross-harris-trial-oct/cIq8I3w0axb7DNla1XIMNI/

Which leads me to believe Ross took Cooper to daycare every morning.