Trial - Ross Harris #5

[JudyBolton]

Ones on the back of his head and any skin exposed to the hot pavement that they person who 1st came to RH car and that person employee Hawkins who did CPR (witnesses AntonyP, Hawkins and Eastland) all stated RH tried to do CPR, yet they trying to say it was RH alone who wrong in trying to do CPR where he was. Then Gallimore testimony that he did 90-100 compression's to Cooper. So there very big possibility that come be some of the reasons for the abrasions. **Former ME Dr Frist was not aware of these CPR attempts in full or placement. Per questioning on Cross.

Maybe on the back of the head but normal CPR with chest compressions should not cause facial abrasions. Overly zealous chest compressions on a baby or small child could cause internal injuries such as cracked ribs if not done properly.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Casey Anthony is free because of the same thing.

Murder1 without lesser options for the jury.

 

[GA_Peach]

Serious question, what has RH hid?

Sexting all day on June 18. He may have forgotten about the light bulb trip, but there is no way he forget about his sexting.

 

[katydid23]

Complaining about the wife, is not the same as an, "expressed desire to be single". Most unfaithful men complain about the wife. Its kinda in the handbook. Complaining to one another about spouses, between affair partners, to justify things is a common as dirt.

I guess it is up to interpretation. In one exchange he had with a woman, he was asked why he didn't divorce his wife, and he answered---'the kid.' He didn't say because ' I love my wife' or because " I like being married'--he said it was because of Cooper that he wouldn't divorce his wife. He said that a few times to a few different people.

 

[agentorange90]

Ross was looking for hook ups and sext buddies. He was not looking for another relationship or even a change in his lifestyle.

He had what he wanted. A devoted wife, a son, a good job, and a supportive community - and multiple women he could sext with and occasionally hook up with for a quickie. Being married with a child did not stand in the way of the sexting and quickies - doesn't make sense as a so-called motive.

That's what I have been saying all along. I think this strategy may work for the prosecution. If anything I think the sexting could have been a distraction that caused this. I haven't seen a single bit of evidence that was compelling that was not brought up in the probable cause hearing. Obviously the short drive and the lunch stop are the 2 key pieces of evidence.

 

[Cardinal47]

Casey Anthony is free because of the same thing.

Murder1 without lesser options for the jury.

There are eight indictments. The two involving children have been proven and carry a sentence of 15 years each.

 

[SuperTmo]

WE aren't missing anything. The State and the ME Assistant who completed the report is who missed the numbers matching. IF the numbers on his reports at the time are not the same as what he put in his report that included in the AR, that shows he messed up taking them on Autopsy . Either way doesn't appear as of Dr. Frist testimony it had been corrected, or maybe they are saving the Tech as a Rebuttal witness? No other witness can speak as to why that persons report reflects that. He will have to testify to it. Surprised that the State didn't object to it being read into the record Lumpkin and Dr Frist to be honest. But again Evans did make note of a typo

Makes sense. But in that case, the 5" difference between the measurements from C-R = 14" and the two that add up to be 19" for the same overall part of his body makes me think his crown to rump length wasn't 14" at all. This is why his head was near the top of the shell of the car seat and not 5" below like someone said yesterday. I have a feeling that was the typo that was discussed. Ultimately it really doesn't matter in the case against RH,but would put to rest the idea that he still fit in that car seat. Poor Cooper.

 

[Hope4More]

Sexting all day on June 18. He may have forgotten about the light bulb trip, but there is no way he forget about his sexting.

His sexting with adult women was irrelevant to what he was being questioned about. Stoddard didn't ask him to account for what he was doing AT work, why would he offer it up? Not volunteering the info is not the same as hiding it.

The sexting with minors certainly wasn't going to be anything he voluntarily "shared" with Stoddard. But....the "hiding" of them imo provides another possible perspective on RH's demeanor and choices during his interview.

RH knew the phone in LE's possession contained evidence of crimes. He knew that if caught he could face prison time, and here he was, his phone with the evidence confiscated, sitting across from a clearly suspicious police dstective asking him questions about what he's done that day and why his son was dead.

It kinda provides another way of looking at why RH would try to play cop buddies, and a host of other "suspicious" things, completely unrelated to Cooper. And, perhaps he didn't offer up the passcode initially for that reason, but reconsidered later on because he wasn't extricating himself and thought more cooperation would help.

 

[katydid23]

A single word in a single text exchange on a single day?! Even that it was THE day?

After doing months of text sleuthing together and putting those texts in context with what was known, I'm flabbergasted, sister pocket.

ETA-- I think it is literally impossible to love my son more than I do- -he's my everything, and was that from the first magical moment when he emerged from my body and we met. I have also been happily married for 21 years.

But , in fact, I have on more than one occasion used the word "escape" to describe my need to take a break from both of my darlings, so I could have time for myself independent of being a mother and a wife. I never felt any need to apologize for that need, and I definitely don't connect the word with a desire to kill anyone so I could go take a road trip or go play for a weekend with girlfriend buddies.

But it wasn't just a 'single' word in a 'single' day that is so concerning. It is the totality of the texts/sexts and the seeming obsession he has with the dark side of his double life. It wasn't just something he did once a week or on a holiday. It was taking over his life. Staying up sexting until 3 am and then getting back at it at 5:30 am? Who sets up afternoon plans for a bj at 5:30am?
That is just nuts.

He did express the urge to leave his unhappy marriage. But told several people that he could never do so because of Cooper. That sounds like a possible motive, imo.

I don't think Ross saw it as 'killing.' It was more of an accidentally on purpose thing. He just 'forgot'---and the baby went to sleep peacefully and never woke up. But just because you lost one baby, doesn't mean you cant have others later on, so no harm, no foul.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by arkansasmimi View Post
Ones on the back of his head and any skin exposed to the hot pavement that they person who 1st came to RH car and that person employee Hawkins who did CPR (witnesses AntonyP, Hawkins and Eastland) all stated RH tried to do CPR, yet they trying to say it was RH alone who wrong in trying to do CPR where he was. Then Gallimore testimony that he did 90-100 compression's to Cooper. So there very big possibility that come be some of the reasons for the abrasions. **Former ME Dr Frist was not aware of these CPR attempts in full or placement. Per questioning on Cross

Maybe on the back of the head but normal CPR with chest compressions should not cause facial abrasions. Overly zealous chest compressions on a baby or small child could cause internal injuries such as cracked ribs if not done properly.

I agree. But I didn't say anything about the face. AR report has diagram of the abrasions on Cooper. My point was, ME didn't know about the various CPR attempts. And the friction of his skin/head against the hot parking lot asphalt could very well have caused this. That was the Def questioning of Dr Frist. Who testified yes it is possible. Also the DA tried to make the jury believe that RH did not attempt CPR when there are at least 3 witnesses stating differently from the beginning. Hawkins had left the scene (that did CPR) but Anthony P and Eastland were on scene. Stoddard even incorrectly stated that Anthony is who did the CPR. IIRC one of the SW said that RH didn't attempt CPR. State has tried over and over to present this as a fact when their own witnesses refute this. http://media.wix.com/ugd/943520_7cd46570b4a9474b9e36c87173e7a14d.pdf

 

[TexMex]

An unfit husband is not the same thing as being an unfit dad, and in any case, he's not on trial for being either.

The bad character evidence wasn't allowed in (well, supposedly) as evidence RH was an unfit dad or husband. It went to intent, and imo, couldn't have been much weaker for it to fail the smell test altogether.

He's definitely on trial for being an unfit dad. Malice murder, felony murder of his son...counts 1,2,3
Cruelty to children...his son...counts 4,5
Sexting minors and sending crotch shots so obsessively you forget your responsibilities as a father...counts 6,7,8 could be grounds for CPS taking your child, if he hadn't died because of it

 

[TexMex]

But it wasn't just a 'single' word in a 'single' day that is so concerning. It is the totality of the texts/sexts and the seeming obsession he has with the dark side of his double life. It wasn't just something he did once a week or on a holiday. It was taking over his life. Staying up sexting until 3 am and then getting back at it at 5:30 am? Who sets up afternoon plans for a bj at 5:30am?
That is just nuts.

He did express the urge to leave his unhappy marriage. But told several people that he could never do so because of Cooper. That sounds like a possible motive, imo.

I don't think Ross saw it as 'killing.' It was more of an accidentally on purpose thing. He just 'forgot'---and the baby went to sleep peacefully and never woke up. But just because you lost one baby, doesn't mean you cant have others later on, so no harm, no foul.

Didn't he text one female that if things were "different", they "could be together"?

 

[arkansasmimi]

What has the State proved beyond a reasonable doubt so far? Honest question no snark.

Def does not deny that RH left Cooper in car. RH fully takes responsibility of that but has said from very get go that it was an accident.

 

[SuperTmo]

LH had taken Cooper to LAA some days in June 2014. LH schedule depended upon her appointments with clients. She worked for DaVita Dialysis as a dietitian. Here is a link about what LH job was https://www.davita.com/kidney-disease/diet-and-nutrition/diet-basics/working-with-a-dietitian/e/5318 JMHO it would make sense to check back and forth as to who may pick up, LH may get a new patient/client.Both had fluctuating schedules. I personally see nothing criminal about them speaking about picking up Cooper texts. JMHO

OF COURSE it isn't criminal for two parents to speak about picking up Cooper. I never implied that it was, correct? Not every thought that someone posts about Ross' behavior needs to be an argument. Ugh. It's truly getting exhausting.

LH and RH weren't discussing who was picking up Cooper; it was already decided that LH was. Ross didn't confirm that she could pick him up still, he asked what time she was doing it. Did they routinely ask each other that? I feel that given what happened that way and Ross' "concern" about whether she was at daycare or not (or whatever he called daycare about), and that he seemed to have left work fairly early for the movie...it all makes me wonder if he was trying to discover Cooper before or right as she got there. If they asked each other about pick up timing every day than that is not so weird in and of itself. Nothing about his individual behaviors and actions really stand out as suspicious for any normal day, but everything together in the context of what happened that day is curious.

 

[katydid23]

Most people, sure. But RH wasn't exactly a responsible, conscientious person. I think he coukd have been so wrapped up in his thoughts he failed to register that Cooper was still in the car. I think he's a very selfish person and lacked a deep emotional connection with his son, so I think he could have just forgotten him.

His behaviour at the police station was just bizarre and I can see why it made LE feel sure he had killed his kid on purpose, but I think it's just as likely that he's just a selfish, self-centred person who killed Cooper completely by accident - and then immediately thought, Oh no, my life is over, why did this happen to me, everyone will hate me etc etc. He probably realised that LE expected to see more remorse and anguish from him, so he tried to fake it. Then he was trying to talk his way out of trouble by making himself out to be a super-responsible father - I watched videos on how to use the car seat, I was aware of the dangers of leaving kids in hot cars, I kissed him and told him I loved him every time I strapped him in just in case I died, this was my biggest fear - this was all RH trying to make himself sound good imo, trying to convince LE thay he is someone who is usually very conscientious about their child's safety and who doesn't deserve to be punished for one mistake. He's so clueless he doesn't realise that he is in big, big trouble this time. He probably did feel sad in his own way about Cooper dying but he would have soon moved on, and used his son's death to get sympathy and attention for himself. I don't think he's a sociopath, but I think he has very immature/ underdeveloped feelings of empathy and responsibility... He sure didn't react to his son's death in the way most parents would.

I think the state have got nothing that proves malice murder. Nothing at all. RH being a selfish, irresponsible man-child can explain everything that happened on that day just as well as premeditated murder can.

Also, I am still wondering about the text exchange between he and his wife the day before. She texted "Don't forget Cooper", and he replied "NEVER! Except for that one time." I do think it's possible RH had left Cooper in the car before, either by forgetting he was there - but then realising in time and rushing back to take him to daycare; or one purpose as other sleuths have hypothesised - leaving him in the car, clocking into work, and then sneaking out to take him to daycare. That would explain his incriminating comment on the veterinarian in the hot car video, and why he and his wife said it was their biggest fear...

All just :moo:

If the jury believes that THE reason he forgot him was because he was a selfish, irresponsible man-child, who had little emotional connection to his son, they are probably going to find a way to vote GUILTY on criminal negligence. jmo

 

[katydid23]

OF COURSE it isn't criminal for two parents to speak about picking up Cooper. I never implied that it was, correct? Not every thought that someone posts about Ross' behavior needs to be an argument. Ugh. It's truly getting exhausting.

LH and RH weren't discussing who was picking up Cooper; it was already decided that LH was. Ross didn't confirm that she could pick him up still, he asked what time she was doing it. Did they routinely ask each other that? I feel that given what happened that way and Ross' "concern" about whether she was at daycare or not (or whatever he called daycare about), and that he seemed to have left work fairly early for the movie...it all makes me wonder if he was trying to discover Cooper before or right as she got there. If they asked each other about pick up timing every day than that is not so weird in and of itself. Nothing about his individual behaviors and actions really stand out as suspicious for any normal day, but everything together in the context of what happened that day is curious.

And if he was going to the movies right after work, why would he even care what time Cooper was being picked up?

 

[arkansasmimi]

My post addressed the white socks and nothing else. Not the size of the dolls, not the different dolls, not anything else in your post. Do you have a link that shows 'the defense objected to white socks on the doll' or 'the defense objected to many things about the doll, including the fact that it had white socks which would have stood out more than what the victim was actually wearing'.

JMHO the fact that the Def has objected to dolls (both) makes the point as a whole. They would have to not object for the "sock" issue to be relevant. I have no idea as to if they did an item by item of clothing. Possible it is addressed in one of the Motions. Courtchatter has motions not sure if all of them up to trial starting in Oct.

 

[Hope4More]

I guess it is up to interpretation. In one exchange he had with a woman, he was asked why he didn't divorce his wife, and he answered---'the kid.' He didn't say because ' I love my wife' or because " I like being married'--he said it was because of Cooper that he wouldn't divorce his wife. He said that a few times to a few different people.

People staying in marriages for " the kid (s)" is plain vanilla common.

IMO it's impossible to know what goes on in any one's marriage, even the marriages of close friends, much less the marriage of complete strangers, one of them on trial.

Personally I have a zero tolerance policy on cheating, because I consider it a complete betrayal of trust. Leanna didn't have the same policy, for reasons none of could possibly know. Likewise the "balance of power" in their marriage, likewise what tradeoffs each was actually willing to make.

IMO it's impossible to take what a serial cheater said to strangers he wanted to have give him BJ's very seriously. He sure didn't seem to....

 

[arkansasmimi]

I try hard to block out the specifics of any victim's death, this one especially, but as a FWIW, I've begin reading up on hot car deaths, etc and came across 2 factoids that seem relevant, not sure if similar info was brought up in ME testimony.

-- children's bodies heat up (on average) 5x faster than adult bodies (a key variable not taken into account whatsoever in the car temp recreation)

-- the temp in cars can leap up as much as 20 degrees within a span of 10 minutes.

But none of that was brought up on States case in chief correct?

 

[katydid23]

What has the State proved beyond a reasonable doubt so far? Honest question no snark.

Def does not deny that RH left Cooper in car. RH fully takes responsibility of that but has said from very get go that it was an accident.

So far they have shown that it was less than a minute from when he pulled out to where he had to make the turn off to daycare. That is harmful to the DT.

They have also shown that the inside of the suv was very small and cramped and the baby seat was very close to the drivers seat. Also a blow to the DT theory that he forgot and would not smell him or hear him easily.

They showed that the babies head could be seen from various view points inside the car and also outside, when walking up to the vehicle.

They showed that on the very morning, within MINUTES of his missing the daycare turnoff, he was complaining to a woman online, that he needed a 'break from love[family life] ---and needed an escape from his son at times.

They also established that he told some women that he was unhappy in his marriage but would never divorce because of his child.

I think they have proven that , beyond a reasonable doubt , Forgotten Baby Syndrome is highly unlikely.