Trial - Ross Harris #5

[katydid23]

People staying in marriages for " the kid (s)" is plain vanilla common.

IMO it's impossible to know what goes on in any one's marriage, even the marriages of close friends, much less the marriage of complete strangers, one of them on trial.

Personally I have a zero tolerance policy on cheating, because I consider it a complete betrayal of trust. Leanna didn't have the same policy, for reasons none of could possibly know. Likewise the "balance of power" in their marriage, likewise what tradeoffs each was actually willing to make.

IMO it's impossible to take what a serial cheater said to strangers he wanted to have give him BJ's very seriously. He sure didn't seem to....

But it is not plain vanilla when one of the partners is acting out their sexual obsession in such a manic fashion. And he is not just a 'cheater.' He is a serial sex offender. Very different animal.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I would have vomited at the scene once i realized i left my kid in the car and he died. Just me.

 

[Hope4More]

And if he was going to the movies right after work, why would he even care what time Cooper was being picked up?

If you look at even the relatively few text exchanges we've seen between the two, they seemed to text quite a lot each day about the picking up of Cooper.

I don't think it was out of character, and imo might have been a peace offering to a wife who was irritated he was going to the movies that night rather than staying home with herself and Cooper.

 

[brazgal]

Ones on the back of his head and any skin exposed to the hot pavement that they person who 1st came to RH car and that person employee Hawkins who did CPR (witnesses AntonyP, Hawkins and Eastland) all stated RH tried to do CPR, yet they trying to say it was RH alone who wrong in trying to do CPR where he was. Then Gallimore testimony that he did 90-100 compression's to Cooper. So there very big possibility that come be some of the reasons for the abrasions. **Former ME Dr Frist was not aware of these CPR attempts in full or placement. Per questioning on Cross.

I really think coroner would distinguish pre and post-mortem injuries. Wasn't him with rigor mortem when retired from the car?

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by minor4th View Post
Not sure how reliable that is. One of the sexters said Ross told her he hooked up with a man from a dating app.

Good point. But the defense didn't dispute it, iirc, though maybe that was a strategic decision to not give an extraneous, irrelevant assertion any weight by glomming onto it....

:silly: first thing I thought of when this witness made that comment, was at the PC hearing Kilgore made a reference to not knowing who all the alleged (at time) sexting was to, that they didn't know for a fact if a man or woman... Judge quipped something to the effect if it made a difference if it was a male or female and Kilgore said something funny like I get back with you on that Judge. It was a funny little exchange. JMHO

 

[Hope4More]

But none of that was brought up on States case in chief correct?

I dunno, because I couldn't bear watching very much of the ME's testimony.

 

[minor4th]

If the jury believes that THE reason he forgot him was because he was a selfish, irresponsible man-child, who had little emotional connection to his son, they are probably going to find a way to vote GUILTY on criminal negligence. jmo

That's why the character evidence should not have been allowed - a jury is not supposed to find a way to "vote guilty" of murder just because he's selfish and irresponsible.

 

[TexMex]

People staying in marriages for " the kid (s)" is plain vanilla common.

IMO it's impossible to know what goes on in any one's marriage, even the marriages of close friends, much less the marriage of complete strangers, one of them on trial.

Personally I have a zero tolerance policy on cheating, because I consider it a complete betrayal of trust. Leanna didn't have the same policy, for reasons none of could possibly know. Likewise the "balance of power" in their marriage, likewise what tradeoffs each was actually willing to make.

IMO it's impossible to take what a serial cheater said to strangers he wanted to have give him BJ's very seriously. He sure didn't seem to....

Do we know his wife didn't have a zero tolerance policy? He'd been caught once. Do we know he didn't swear he'd never cheat again, beg her to take him back? Do we know she didn't threaten to divorce him and take their son away if it ever happened again? Do we know if she'd been suspicious shortly before Cooper died?

 

[minor4th]

So far they have shown that it was less than a minute from when he pulled out to where he had to make the turn off to daycare. That is harmful to the DT.

They have also shown that the inside of the suv was very small and cramped and the baby seat was very close to the drivers seat. Also a blow to the DT theory that he forgot and would not smell him or hear him easily.

They showed that the babies head could be seen from various view points inside the car and also outside, when walking up to the vehicle.

They showed that on the very morning, within MINUTES of his missing the daycare turnoff, he was complaining to a woman online, that he needed a 'break from love[family life] ---and needed an escape from his son at times.

They also established that he told some women that he was unhappy in his marriage but would never divorce because of his child.

I think they have proven that , beyond a reasonable doubt , Forgotten Baby Syndrome is highly unlikely.

What crime is that then that they've proven beyond a reasonable doubt?

 

[arkansasmimi]

I must have missed any posts of yours that state anything negative about the defense and in turn, anything positive about the prosecution. (Because there aren't any) No matter what is presented about the person responsible for the death of Cooper, you always have an excuse for him.

He was in such close proximity to Cooper and didn't see him? -----> He wasn't looking in that direction

He had just eaten breakfast with Cooper, Cooper had been active in CF, he had just put him in the car seat and forgot about him?---> Cooper fell asleep

He didn't remember to drop him off minutes after he left CF---->RH was tired

The police immediately got the impression something was off about RH?------> They jumped to the wrong conclusion

Leanna was more concerned about getting an attorney than she was about her dead child?-------> She was smart

The judge allowed the jurors to look at a piece of the evidence that had been admitted, the car-------> She should not have allowed that and it's grounds for an appeal

And there are plenty more examples.

It's one thing to look at the legal aspects of the case and have an opinion as to whether the rights of the defendant are being preserved and another to be totally one sided while claiming to be objective and factual.

Me? I'm one sided and favor the prosecution. You? You're one sided and favor the defense.

Me? I'll admit it. You? Will not admit it.

RBBM, :thinking: isn't this exactly what is going on in this trial? Or any trial for that matter?

"It's one thing to look at the legal aspects of the case and have an opinion as to whether the rights of the defendant are being preserved and another to be totally one sided while claiming to be objective and factual.:

Personally I have no problem with whichever side presents evidence as long as it is factual and in context.

Honest question, being one sided and favor of the prosecution, are you saying you do not see or acknowledge various things alleged to be factual as presented? Do you not see that with exception of only a few that the State witnesses have had on Cross testimony that brings out reasonable doubt? If not, then why even watch the testimony if being that bias as to not see it. Heck the State brought more attention to the fact Grimstead messed up on his measurements and thus their first 3D animation that they mid trial rushed out and did another one. This was a huge knock to some credibility jmho. They knew it too or else they wouldn't have done the new one. All that testimony kept reiterating that and for the State it could backfire. JMHO

State has burden of proof to prove beyond reasonable doubt

Defense has no burden of proof. They create reasonable doubt. So far, it has been pretty much done witness upon witness jmho

 

[katydid23]

That's why the character evidence should not have been allowed - a jury is not supposed to find a way to "vote guilty" of murder just because he's selfish and irresponsible.

Being selfish and irresponsible means NEGLIGENCE, in my opinion. If your chid fries to death, slowly and painfully, because you are selfish and irresponsible, then you should be held legally responsible.

 

[tlcya]

You are all here to discuss this case and your opinions on it. I have snipped and removed some posts today that contain your opinions and judgments of one another because you differ in your opinions as to whether this was a premeditated murder or an accidental death.

Be warned - I will not be doing that any further. If your post contains your unflattering opinions about those who disagree with you, assumptions on what your fellow members feel, or is otherwise disrespectful to your fellows the entire post will be removed. There will be no more warnings.

It is entirely possible to feel passionately about this case and Ross Harris's guilt or innocence without "reading one another's trees" as my grandmother would have said.

 

[LyndyLoo]

That's why the character evidence should not have been allowed - a jury is not supposed to find a way to "vote guilty" of murder just because he's selfish and irresponsible.

I do disagree with this notion ~~ Why? It's his behaviour and pre-occupation for his alter-ego that motivated what he did that day! IF his behaviour had nothing to do with what happened..it would have been ruled inadmissible in pre-trial hearings. I've watched trials since OJ and I can't tell you how many time's denied the ability to admit evidence of "Bad Character"..however..It is admitted when it supports a motivation for committing the offence alleged.

Case by case basis application..SO it's Ross who impugned his own character by his every day obsessive Sexting and philandering behaviour and in doing that left avery long paper trail of minors/prostitutes/online fellow unhappily married people TEXTS/Hookups/etc. Irrelevant ????? DON'T THINK SO!!

 

[katydid23]

What crime is that then that they've proven beyond a reasonable doubt?

Criminal Negligence, most likely.

 

[Hope4More]

But it is not plain vanilla when one of the partners is acting out their sexual obsession in such a manic fashion. And he is not just a 'cheater.' He is a serial sex offender. Very different animal.

I don't mind speculating, but only if I have at least some knowledge or facts to work with. I have zero knowledge or insight into the psychology of sexual predators of minors, by choice- - it's just too painful to want to delve into.

I don't even know what if any psychological distinction there is , if any between a man who sexts with minors versus a man who has actual sex with minors. Seems like a pretty big difference between the two, but dunno.

So, I don't have an intelligent opinion about whether or not , in general, a man who sexts with minors is somehow a man who is incapable of loving his child, or a man who would kill his child to get out of his marriage . All I can say is in this case, i don't see any evidence of this man being willing to kill his child, nor do I see a man who didnt in fact love his son.

 

[TexMex]

What crime is that then that they've proven beyond a reasonable doubt?

Counts 5,6,7,8. Maybe 3,5,6,7,8

What's your take?

 

[arkansasmimi]

Well.......there aren't board certified, credentialed folks lining up to support this. Actually, he's pretty much his own source. In my opinion the confluence of two variables, stress and deviation from routine, do not a syndrome make!!!! Perhaps a predisposition for forgetfulness at that time......but falls short of a syndrome. There are just too many independent variables when these tragedies happen......... and each death should be evaluated and investigated independent of any alleged syndrome - my opinion.

I think RH's team would be better served to focus on his obvious sexual preoccupation. I'm one who firmly believes he was negligent........can't get to intentional - and needs to be incarcerated. With RH's self- proclaimed addict status, I don't think anything related to Diamond's theory will serve him well. Just my opinion. And, it's not well supported among those who have the education, training and experience to do so. The sexual behaviors will most likely be seen as the cause of stress..........not good for the Diamond-ittes.

There is no question RH has some serious mental health issues - and he didn't just wake up this way two years ago, in my opinion. However, his mental health issues, which as far as I know haven't been diagnosed, (folks saying he was depressed doesn't cut it) should not mitigate his responsibility for Cooper's death. And while I'm doing this, I will say I think it's best to not diagnose him in this forum. He's certainly responsible for the horrible death of his son, but I'll wait to read about it - don't think I'll even watch. I know the defense has a psychologist scheduled.

I'm out of here for a while.......................that Forgotten Baby stuff will make me need to go to the gym way too much!!!!

RBBM
All I know about this is from what I have heard in testimony thus far. In the interview with Stoddard (first one) He was asked about medical conditions.
And we learned from Murphy that he picked up LH, RH and Coopers medical records. Coopers are in short order discussed in the AR report. We know nothing from the medical reports of RH.
JMHO from watching the trial.

 

[colette]

I think there may be fighting in the jury room. Because so far I don't feel like it's a proven intentional murder. Yes, he is a sexually addicted slimeball.

 

[arkansasmimi]

.

Originally Posted by jdj125 View Post
That IS true, however the ME report does say in the next sentence that they were given to LE

Quote Originally Posted by SuperTmo View Post
Yeah but it is just so weird. If that was my kid and I wasn't the parent that left her, I wouldn't even have the thought of an attorney. That was so soon after he was discovered dead...why did she already have an attorney? Why was that a thought in her mind? I just don't get it.

JMHO, again RH brother is Sgt at Tuscaloosa PD. When she met with RH first time, just short period after finding out from LAA worker that he had seen on news about child found dead in car and recognized RH SUV, (LH got to LAA at 4:51 pm). When she met with RH, she had already spoken with Detectives, had her purse searched, been searched her self. RH told her they were charging him and Stoddard came in and told the same. (RH was not free to leave per Stoddard testimony, if she had asked to leave would not have been permitted to. I am curious how long she was at the CCPD that night) So again, I see nothing odd about her getting an attorney .. when you look at all that was going on and what we have learned in court. JMHO

Quoting and correcting my post as unable to edit. This should be LH was not free to leave and if she had asked to leave she would not have been permitted to. This was Stoddards testimony under Kilgore onCross when discussing LH.

 

[pocketaccent]

An unfit husband is not the same thing as being an unfit dad, and in any case, he's not on trial for being either.

The bad character evidence wasn't allowed in (well, supposedly) as evidence RH was an unfit dad or husband. It went to intent, and imo, couldn't have been much weaker for it to fail the smell test altogether.

It feels unnatural for me to argue with someone I admire so much. :waitasec:

I think our difference in opinion in this case is:

You: Sexts, endless meaningless texts, prostitutes -> bad husband only -> child dying has nothing to do with those.

Me: Sexts, endless meaningless texts, prostitutes -> bad husband AND bad dad*-> child dies as a result and I hold bad dad responsible (together with other evidence presented at trial of course).

*bad dad because:
-His texting and sexting take precious time away from nurturing his child. You never get those precious moments back.
-He is preoccupied with dirty filthy thoughts about having sex with young girls and prostitutes even when he is in the same room with Cooper. This is not a healthy environment for a child to grow up in.

Probably more reasons... but I have to go cook dinner now.