trial thread: 04/03/2012

[matou]

Tori’s skull and face, including cheekbones and nose, had numerous fractures.
Pollanen said they were from a claw-hammer; she was hit on the head at least four times, he said.
“A minimum of four,” he said. “And this flows from the fact that we have four unique sites (on the skull).” But he also told the jury there could have been more blows to the head but since there was no scalp, it was impossible to determine.

http://www.londoncommunitynews.com/...ial-jury-warned-of-disturbing-images-to-come/

 

[Kamille]

The defense theory hasn't yet specified the time when TLM informed MR of the true purpose of VS presence with her. It could have been sometime after they were at Home Depot.

I am sure the defense will offer many more details when they have their chance.

The only way they're going to "have their chance" is if MR gets up on the stand and testifies. There are no other direct witnesses and TLM has denied all suggestions on cross that this crime was anything other than sexual, the kidnapping directed by MR.

MOO

 

[swedie]

The defense may suggest that the scene was staged by TLM to look like a sexual assault and therefore deflect suspicion away from herself as a female ...

But really, who is there left to question about a possible rape? The coroner today indicated that the scope of his autopsy could not prove that a sexual assault had occurred. No one else is more qualified than him to speak to the matter.

I think that part is a wrap, at least as far as the autopsy goes. There may be more forensic evidence forthcoming though from the car.

To my thinking, without evidence to substantiate the Crown's allegations that MR abducted TS for nefarious purposes, the Crown cannot put forth his motive - he has NO PRIORS - so they can't go to past bad acts like they did with TLM, who was just full of anger and rage.

JMO

The evidence, he said, concluded a number of things: The blond-haired girl had suffered numerous injuries before she had died; She had been struck with an object, likely a hammer, at least four times on the top of her head; Three of the blows were done with the claw-side of the tool; Stafford had multiple facial fractures that could have been caused by hammer blows, kicking or punching; Two-thirds of her ribs were fractured on both sides of her chest, which showed "extensively distributed trauma to the entire torso" and could have been caused by kicking, stomping or crushing of the child's fragile chest, testified Pollanen.[/I]
HTH

http://www.canada.com/news/Tori+Stafford+Trial+Coroner+offers+graphic+testimony/6402840/story.html

 

[Macright]

Sorry if someone already answered, I have not caught up. In Canada the law is, because MR was there in the commission of the abduction and died while in their custody, whether accidental or deliberate he is guilty. I believe this will be, and has been made very clear to the jurors. HTH

I only wish that Canadian law had been applied yesterday when someone who was there and who helped clean up the site after the murder of a 13 year old girl was found not guilty...it seems our laws are never consistent...37 stab wounds and she remained outside smoking while the deed was taking place..she did nothing to help that poor girl..yet our wonderful courts let her off......:banghead:

 

[Kamille]

not if that perverse female with a revenge plot told him she was babysitting TS when she brought her to the car..we don't know when he was told or figured out that this was a kidnapping and may never know unless he takes the stand and we hear his side to this tragedy.. my mind always goes back to the breeding of those dogs that never happened...:moo:

There has been no evidence presented so far to suggest that this was a revenge killing by a "perverse female" or that MR did not know at the time that Victoria first got into his car that this was an abduction for nefarious or sexual purposes. Repeatedly saying that here on this board does not make it so IMO. The defence has had two opportunities to establish an alternate motive for this crime and has not done so with either of the witnesses who could answer this question directly.

MOO

 

[Hello_Kitty]

I only wish that Canadian law had been applied yesterday when someone who was there and who helped clean up the site after the murder of a 13 year old girl was found not guilty...it seems our laws are never consistent...37 stab wounds and she remained outside smoking while the deed was taking place..she did nothing to help that poor girl..yet our wonderful courts let her off......:banghead:

I'm not familiar witht that case. Did he blame his girlfriend of participating in the murder?

 

[Macright]

The evidence, he said, concluded a number of things: The blond-haired girl had suffered numerous injuries before she had died; She had been struck with an object, likely a hammer, at least four times on the top of her head; Three of the blows were done with the claw-side of the tool; Stafford had multiple facial fractures that could have been caused by hammer blows, kicking or punching; Two-thirds of her ribs were fractured on both sides of her chest, which showed "extensively distributed trauma to the entire torso" and could have been caused by kicking, stomping or crushing of the child's fragile chest, testified Pollanen.[/I]
HTH

http://www.canada.com/news/Tori+Stafford+Trial+Coroner+offers+graphic+testimony/6402840/story.html

I have read numerous newspapers tonight and each reporter has altered the statements somewhat..just the way they have worded something...one would think that stomping on a childs chest would crush it..thus there is no need to add "crushing a childs fragile chest"...it seems the more words added to a report the more appealing to the reader...almost like padding to some extent......:moo:

 

[nettie_82]

We also need to remember the Jury was told this:

The day seemed like the trial of McClintic, not Rafferty, and Justice Thomas Heeney had to remind jurors that questions and suggestions aren't evidence unless a witness accepts them as truth.

http://www.simcoereformer.ca/2012/03/22/toris-killer-explains-her-torture-fantasies

 

[Macright]

I'm not familiar witht that case. Did he blame his girlfriend of participating in the murder?

I can't say for sure if he blamed her but she ratted on him...she admitted to being there but stayed outside for a smoke...she claims she only helped him clean up because she "loved him"...the 13 year old was also put in garbage bags behind his house... he got life (25 yrs) and she was let off....

 

[gardenia]

is it possible that the bottoms were off (or nearly) because she was relieving herself?

 

[JayFriend]

The only way they're going to "have their chance" is if MR gets up on the stand and testifies. There are no other direct witnesses and TLM has denied all suggestions on cross that this crime was anything other than sexual, the kidnapping directed by MR.

MOO

Yes, we're all waiting for that to happen. While he is not compelled to testify, if he doesn't then his only hope is his lawyer confusing the jury enough to create reasonable doubt. The reason not to testify is so the Crown does not have an opportunity to cross-examine and ask questions the answers to which could imply guilt. That, and not letting the jury evaluate him directly is the only reason to keep him off the stand. In my opinion, if he's truly NOT GUILTY then the defence has nothing to fear by letting him testify. If he won't testify, does he have something he's hiding that can point to guilt? I know the jury isn't supposed to think that way, but it's only human nature. JMO

 

[roseofsharon]

OMG, I just can't comprehend nor believe, that the accused, only witnessed and/or came upon after the fact, the injuries inflicted on TS and whose only crime was being in the wrong place at the wrong time, so he decided helping clean up was the least he could do.

This is one of the most ludicrous defenses I have ever heard.

MOO

 

[~n/t~]

Rafferty's former girlfriend, Terri-Lynne McClintic, almost two years ago pleaded guilty to first-degree murder for her role in Tori's slaying, and more recently in her testimony here changed her story to say that she, and not her hulking ex, was the actual killer.


By either account, whether she was doing the killing or Rafferty, the essential elements of the child's death were the same: the eight-year-old died after allegedly being raped by Rafferty. She was, McClintic told Judge Thomas Heeney and the jurors, first kicked and stomped and then struck in the head with a hammer which she had bought, just an hour or two before, ostensibly at Rafferty's direction.


Pollanen was called in when Tori's remains were discovered in what he called "a clandestine grave" under a rock pile in the countryside south of Mount Forest on July 19 that year, more than three months after she had vanished on her way home from school.


The next day, what was left of the little girl was transported to Toronto for autopsy, which Pollanen performed.

http://www.canada.com/Blatchford+Pa...ori+Stafford+dying+moments/6406092/story.html

 

[giantalkinghead]

It implies sexual assault maybe, but doesn't prove it in my opinion. Who is to say that TLM didn't remove the child's tights, skirt and panties herself for whatever sick reason? To make it look like a sexual assault perhaps? This would certainly help steer police away from looking at HER as a suspect if that is what she did, she probably figured it would lead police to look for a male suspect more than a female. JMO.

I really need to add my two cents here... has anyone thought that perhaps little Tori had wet or dirty ( pooped ) pants beause she wasn't allowed to use a washroom since she was school ? An 8 year could easily have had an accident. Perhaps TLM in a fit of rage ordered that she take off her clothing and then beat her to death. Perhaps the rape never happened. There needs to be proof over and above TLM's testimony ( IMO ) in order to prove the rape. So far - it just isn't there. This does NOT at all say that I don't want MR to be found guilty.... I just would like it if there were more concrete evidence. Praying that *IF* he *DID* indeed commit the crime - there will be DNA evidence to prove it happened.

MOO

 

[swedie]

With respect, I didn't indicate Tori's hands were damaged. I'm referring to an earlier post in which the poster wondered why Tori's alleged position on the ground was not more defensive with arms above head to protect from hammer blow.

If you re-read my post you will note I state it's speculation--an attempt to understand how the crime occurred. There is much in this case that is yet to be explained.

Also, I've never cared which of these two monsters was more evil. I'm more interested in how they conspired together to torture and murder an eight-year-old girl.

:goodpost:

 

[Hello_Kitty]

is it possible that the bottoms were off (or nearly) because she was relieving herself?

They weren't 'nearly' they were completely gone and so were her shoes, and tights.

 

[antiquegirl]

Snipped for space:

I really don't understand why people are suggesting that TLM staged this to look like a sexual assault or that evidence was planted (like the bottle caps). That would mean that she knew before she left Woodstock that she would be blaming this on MR, because I can't imagine her doing this while she was killing Tori nor after. Why would she want to blame her boyfriend at this stage or even at any stage before she was actually caught.

TLM has had years of experience thinking on her feet. She's been fighting for her life (violently) for years, has been in and out of "the system", had street smarts to spare. She didn't have to plan in advance to stage this.

So, theoretically - she bludgeons Tori and decides when all is said and done that she's going to make it look like "You're in this now as far as I am" (or whatever the exact quote was). She removes Tori's lower clothing, stuffs them in a garbage bag with the hammer. Thinking on her feet. Theoretically.

Maybe she grabs a couple of bottle caps and tosses them in Tori's garbage bag. She had green tea. Maybe she never drank any water. But why bother even disposing of them? Take them with you. Your own fingerprints on bottle caps is not a crime. Those caps make my hinky meter go off big time.

If you had committed this horrendous crime, what would you do first, dispose of the body, or leave it lying there while you clean up the other evidence? I know that hiding that body would be my first priority. She was put in garbage bags, carried to her final resting place, and covered in rocks. THEN, one would go about gathering weapon, bloody clothes, cigarette butts, and bottle caps. Too late to put in Tori's garbage bags.

OR ...

Perhaps it was TLM who sexually assaulted Tori. There would still be no DNA evidence and it would explain the lack of clothing. Perhaps.

Why would she NOT want to blame him? You think a sociopath would prefer to take all the blame herself? She's not stupid enough to think that there was zero chance they'd get caught. Remember, for the first while she told LE she knew nothing about this crime. She then told them that she was an innocent dupe, doing MTR's bidding, and he is the one who raped and killed Tori. She stuck to this story for two years before changing it again. It sure doesn't sound to me like someone who'd hesitate to place blame wherever she can ... as the mood suits her.

But, that's JMO.

 

[swedie]

And there wouldn't have been enough room in the backseat of the car to do it any other way. This is what makes me think TLM is telling the truth.:moo:

MOHO where there is a will there is a way. And MR could have thrown Tori out of the car also to rape her on the ground. TLM was too busy taking in her surroundings and having flashbacks to notice MR raping Tori on the ground. :moo:

 

[~n/t~]

is it possible that the bottoms were off (or nearly) because she was relieving herself?

No. One doesn't take their bottoms off completely to relieve themselves.

 

[Gunner]

Thanks to all who took the time and effort to post all the tweets.